Israel is the Church

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Enoch111

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Israel is the church and the 144000 Jewish converts to Christianity. but the great multitude which no man can number are of gentile origins.
Do you see how twisted and confused your mind is about this? If indeed the Jewish converts were in the Church, and if indeed there is no Jew or Gentile in the Church (which is true), then the 12 tribes would not have been listed!

Paul makes it crystal clear that Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, male or female are all the same within the Church. But the Holy Spirit separated out the 12 tribes in Revelation 7 (and in Ezekiel) to show naysayers like you that you are still stumbling around through man-made doctrines (e.g. Replacement Theology)
 
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Dave L

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Do you see how twisted and confused your mind is about this? If indeed the Jewish converts were in the Church, and if indeed there is no Jew or Gentile in the Church (which is true), then the 12 tribes would not have been listed!

Paul makes it crystal clear that Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, male or female are all the same within the Church. But the Holy Spirit separated out the 12 tribes in Revelation 7 (and in Ezekiel) to show naysayers like you that you are still stumbling around through man-made doctrines (e.g. Replacement Theology)
The 144,000 are the Jews grafted along with the innumerable host of Gentiles who make up Israel, the Church.
 
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Dave L

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Here's the original post with scripture quoted for easy reference;

Israel defined in both the Old and New Testaments.
Saints;

“And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the Lord?” (Numbers 16:3)

“Yea, he loved the people; All his saints are in thy hand: And they sat down at thy feet; Every one shall receive of thy words.” (Deuteronomy 33:3)

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:” (Ephesians 1:1)

“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 1:7)

Elect;

“For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.” (Deuteronomy 7:6)

“The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:” (Deuteronomy 7:7)

“And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;” (Deuteronomy 4:37)

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;” (Colossians 3:12)

“Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;” (Titus 1:1)

Beloved;

“Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.” (1 Thessalonians 1:4)

“The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:” (Deuteronomy 7:7)

“And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;” (Deuteronomy 4:37)

“Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;” (Colossians 3:12)

“Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.” (1 Thessalonians 1:4)

Called;

“Thou whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, And called thee from the chief men thereof, And said unto thee, Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.” (Isaiah 41:9)

“But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, And he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.” (Isaiah 43:1)

“Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:” (Romans 1:6)

“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (Romans 1:7)

Church;

“Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:” (1 Corinthians 1:2)

“And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: Thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.” (Psalm 89:5)

“Therefore thou shalt have none that shall cast a cord by lot In the congregation of the Lord.” (Micah 2:5)

“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:” (Acts 7:38)

“Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.” (Hebrews 2:12)

“Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:” (Ephesians 1:1)

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” (Acts 20:28)

Flock;

“And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks? Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock. The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them. And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered. My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them. Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord; As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock; Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord; Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them. For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country. I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God. I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment. And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats. Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet? And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet. Therefore thus saith the Lord God unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle. Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad; Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods. And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing. And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them. And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid. And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God. And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God.” (Ezekiel 34)

“Thou leddest thy people like a flock By the hand of Moses and Aaron.” (Psalm 77:20)

“Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.” (Luke 12:32)

“Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;” (1 Peter 5:2)
 
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Dave L

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Here's the rest;

Holy Nation;

“Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:” (Exodus 19:5)

“And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.” (Exodus 19:6)

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” (1 Peter 2:9)

Kingdom of Priests;

“Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:” (Exodus 19:5)

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” (1 Peter 2:9)

Peculiar Treasure;

“Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:” (Exodus 19:5)

“And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.” (Exodus 19:6)

“But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:” (1 Peter 2:9)

God’s People;

“Then said God, Call his name Lo-ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.” (Hosea 1:9)

“Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.” (Hosea 1:10)

“Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.” (1 Peter 2:10)

Holy People;

“For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.” (Deuteronomy 7:6)

“But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;” (1 Peter 1:15)

“Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:16)

People of Inheritance;

“But the Lord hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.” (Deuteronomy 4:20)

“The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,” (Ephesians 1:18)

God’s Tabernacle in Israel/Church;

“And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.” (Leviticus 26:11)

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” (John 1:14)

God Walks among Them;

“And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.” (Leviticus 26:12)

“And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.” (2 Corinthians 6:16–18)

Christ Married to Them;

“For thy Maker is thine husband; The Lord of hosts is his name; And thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.” (Isaiah 54:5)

“Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:” (Jeremiah 3:14)

“And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.” (Hosea 2:19)

“I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.” (Jeremiah 6:2)

“Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand To bring them out of the land of Egypt; Which my covenant they brake, Although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:” (Jeremiah 31:32)

“Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)

“For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.” (Ephesians 5:23)

“For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11:2)
 

Reggie Belafonte

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Grafted into, but yes, that is right.



How does this relate towards whether Abraham is the tree?

God teaches in Romans that both Jews and Gentiles in the faith are branches of the same tree. Branches are not the tree.

The tree supports the branches. The Root supports both Jews and Gentiles, being something Other Than. Abraham is the father of us all who believe. Israel is not the tree. Israel is branches. Gentiles are branches. Abraham is the tree.

Much love!
Mark
Jesus Christ is the Vine, one must abide in the Vine.

The Tree is Israel and all who abide in that tree are Israel regardless.

Now the understanding is that when abiding in such you must bear fruit, if you do not bear fruit you are not worthy as to God.

The problem that we can see was that Israel was not bearing fruit and we see that a True Israelite named Nathaniel was in fact working on the Tree, so that it would bear Fruit and on coming into contact with Jesus knew that he was the Christ Jesus directly, not to mention what Jesus said to him, that should blow you away, as it's just so fantastic in every detail.
 

marks

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Jesus Christ is the Vine, one must abide in the Vine.

The Tree is Israel and all who abide in that tree are Israel regardless.

Now the understanding is that when abiding in such you must bear fruit, if you do not bear fruit you are not worthy as to God.

The problem that we can see was that Israel was not bearing fruit and we see that a True Israelite named Nathaniel was in fact working on the Tree, so that it would bear Fruit and on coming into contact with Jesus knew that he was the Christ Jesus directly, not to mention what Jesus said to him, that should blow you away, as it's just so fantastic in every detail.

You know, I've been meditating on that fact for some weeks now. I'm in the Gospels, and it's something that's been catching my eye in a fresh way, how certain of them knew right away. The Father drew them. That's what Jesus said.

There's an effectual call!

Much love!
mark
 

APAK

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I tend to agree with the thoughts and words of @Dave L on his OP and thread.

Let me just add some words that help me to understand and describe the different folks all under spiritual Israel today.

Today’s spiritual Israel => 3 major components => the entire Ekklesia (Church/Kirk) of God through Christ:

1. The remnant(s) of the 12 tribes of physical/ bloodline Israel from Abraham under the law that were accredited with salvation (all knew of their physical and spiritual roots) +

2. Those legitimate and recognized Jews who converted to Christ after his death and later throughout all future generations. Over 90 percent would not be aware of their bloodline Israelite roots in their generation as if it mattered anyway. Most legitimate bloodline Israelites lived far from the Middle East hundreds of years before Christ’s birth and then many were killed off by 100 AD through slaughter and famine who lived around Judea. Most of them that did survive moved to many foreign lands and mixed with other cultures, especially in Europe, after 100 AD) +

3. All natives and peoples of all other nations who converted to Christ since his death and throughout all future generations.


Revelation indicates the first two components or sets of branches of the tree and root of Christ (Romans 11:18) with a stated number of 144,000 (in Rev). This number may be only an indication that there shall be a large group from all the 12 tribes and not necessarily only a literal 144,000 of Israelites.

Those grafted into the tree and root of Christ or as part of the vine if you will, are those of the 3rd component of today’s Israel. These are the majority as Revelation indicates. Yes, there shall be a distinction made in heaven of the first 2 components and the 3rd one as scripture teaches in Revelation.

There is no scriptural support for a 4th component entering into Christ’s rest as Israel today, as part of the ‘144,000.’ Many try to reason that there shall be a change of heart of those living in the political State called Israel. Some need to make it a fact so to support their various ‘tribulation’ scenarios and theories. This is cruel joke. It isn’t’ happening, today, or in the future. The die was already cast long ago in scripture. These in the main, those in the Middle East and elsewhere shall remain anti-Christian, defiant of Christ to the end.

Blessing to all,

APAK
 

Waiting on him

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1. We know that that is not true. The nation-state of modern Israel was established as a strictly secular entity in what was Palestine. And it does not even occupy all of Judea as at the time of Christ.

2. We also know that ISRAEL IS NOT THE CHURCH.

3. We also have biblical evidence that you are TOTALLY MISTAKEN.

THE 144,000 -- A MICROCOSM OF REDEEMED ISRAEL (REV 7)
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
[NOTE: While the 144,000 will be in Heaven before the throne of God, these tribes will also be settled in the future land of *GREATER ISRAEL* (from the Nile to the Euphrates) as described in Ezekiel 48:1-35 in the Millennium and beyond]

THE CHURCH -- ALONGSIDE AND SEPARATE (REV 7)
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Dave, you are trying to contradict God, Christ, and the Bible with your foolish notions. You have no clue about this subject, yet you continue to persist in your errors.
Manasseh and Ephraim, Adopted equals share in the inheritance?
 

Enoch111

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Manasseh and Ephraim, Adopted equals share in the inheritance?
Yes.

Read "Joseph" in Revelation 7 for Ephraim. And "Ephraim" for Ephraim in Ezekiel.

Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. (Rev 7:8)

And by the border of Manasseh, from the east side unto the west side, a portion for Ephraim. And by the border of Ephraim, from the east side even unto the west side, a portion for Reuben. (Ezek 48:5,6).
 

prism

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Some people are so antisemitic, their 'Replacement Gospel' blinds them to the true Gospel.
Inspired by satan, Hitler had no problem in finding out who the Jews were and did not confuse it with the Church.
Pharisees and E. Europeans? LOL. Simply antisemitic hatred.
 
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prism

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Ezekiel 11:17 KJV
[17] Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord God ; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
(this is happening)

Ezekiel 11:19-20 KJV
[19] And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: [20] That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
(this will be happening)
 
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ScottA

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Here is a comparison of Israel in the Old Testament compared with Israel in the New Testament. Some think today's State of Israel is Biblical Israel. But if so, to whom are they re-grafted back into upon believing in Christ (Romans 11)?

Old Testament Israel;

1. Saints (Num. 16:3; Deut. 33:3)
2. Elect (Deut. 7:6,7; 14:2)
3. Beloved (Deut. 7:7; 4:37)
4. Called (Isa. 41:9; 43:1)
5. Church (Ps. 89:5; Mic. 2:5 (LXX)
Act. 7:38; Heb. 2:12)
6. Flock (Ezek. 34; Ps. 77:20)
7. Holy Nation (Exod. 19:5,6)
8. Kingdom of Priests (Exod.l9:5,6)
9. Peculiar Treasure (Exod. 19:5,6)
10. God's People (Hos. 1:9,10)
11. Holy People (Deut. 7:6)
12. People of Inheritance (Deut. 4:20)
13. God's Tabernacle in Israel
(Lev. 26:11)
14. God walks among them
(Lev. 26:12)
15. Twelve Patriarchs
16. Christ married to them (Isa. 54:5;
Jer. 3:14; Hos. 2:19; Jer. 6:2; 31:32)

New Testament Israel;

1. Saints (Eph. 1:1; Rom. 1:7)
2. Elect (Col. 3:12; Titus 1:1)
3. Beloved (Col.3:12; 1 Thess 1:4)
4. Called (Rom. 1:6,7; lCor.l:2)
5. Church (Eph. 1:1;
Acts 20:28)
6. Flock (Luke 12:32; 1 Pet. 5:2)
7. Holy Nation (1 Pet. 2:9)
8. Kingdom of Priests (1 Pet. 2:9)
9. Peculiar Treasure (1 Pet. 2:9)
10. God's People (1 Pet. 2:10)
11. Holy People (1 Pet. 1:15,16)
12. People of Inheritance (Eph. 1:18)
13. God's Tabernacle in Church
(John 1:14)
14. God walks among them
(2 Cor. 6:16-18)
15. Twelve Apostles
16. Christ married to them
(Eph. 5:22, 23; 2Cor. 11:2)
None of that is as clear as Christ simply saying that He 1) came for the house of Israel, 2) went to the cross, and 3) finished it. All past tense.

He also clearly indicated that His church were those born again of the spirit of God which was born the day of Pentecost, and foretold to be the times of the gentiles (not Israel).

These two "folds" Jesus referred to as "the first who would be last", and "the last who would be first." Paul then referred to the two as "the dead in Christ" and "the living in Christ"...which would (or should) explain "the first" being last, and "the last" being first.

Paul elaborates further to explain, also stating it backwards just as did Jesus, saying, "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." Also putting it another way, referring to the "natural" as the linage of "the first Adam", and those of the "spirit" as the linage of "the Last Adam."

Thus...very clearly the flesh is first, but last to receive the spirit of God...making Israel Israel, and the church the church, both being "in Christ", "as to create in Himself one new man from the two."

Is all this not quite clear?
 
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Dave L

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None of that is as clear as Christ simply saying that He 1) came for the house of Israel, 2) went to the cross, and 3) finished it. All past tense.

He also clearly indicated that His church were those born again of the spirit of God which was born the day of Pentecost, and foretold to be the times of the gentiles (not Israel).

These two "folds" Jesus referred to as "the first who would be last", and "the last who would be first." Paul then referred to the two as "the dead in Christ" and "the living in Christ"...which would (or should) explain "the first" being last, and "the last" being first.

Paul elaborates further to explain, also stating it backwards just as did Jesus, saying, "However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual." Also putting it another way, referring to the "natural" as the linage of "the first Adam", and those of the "spirit" as the linage of "the Last Adam."

Thus...very clearly the flesh is first, but last to receive the spirit of God...making Israel Israel, and the church the church, both being "in Christ", "as to create in Himself one new man from the two."

Is all this not quite clear?
If circumcision made one a physical member of Israel, and circumcision no longer exists, Physical Israel does not exist in truth.
 

tzcho2

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This is just the anti-Semitic, false doctrine of Supersessionism/replacement theology that some love to peddle. Funny to me how those that are under the sway of false doctrines aren't satisfied to be there by themselves , they try to convince others of it -- always. It's a pattern.
 
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Taken

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Feb 6, 2018
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Israel IS the Church <---> OP

Disagree.

Israel is the a CHOSEN people.

The CHURCH is a "GRAFTED" branch of people, "GRAFTED" into the "Chosen" people.

Not the other way around.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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