Israel to be kept safe during the Great Tribulation

[Bobby Jo]

He had a will I grant you but it was hardly free, it was bound by terror. If his will had been free He would have said "yes I am with Jesus"

Hey BE,
I don't think you understand what "free will" means. -- We can BLAME anything from threat of death to a hangnail why we deny Jesus, but the result is the same. Whether Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego, or You, Me, and Bobby Jo, we all face a "furnace" sometime in our lives. And so we TAKE A STAND, and not find an excuse.

With Very Best Regards,
ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing. )

 

[Keraz]

You use some scriptures and ignore others. You keep quoting the scriptures that show Israel's fall and ignore those which show their rise in the latter days.

I don't ignore any scripture. I simply can't find any that prophecy a general restoration of Judah.
It will be the Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples from every race, nation and language, who will become a great nation in all of the holy land. Isaiah 62:1-5

 

[Bobby Jo]

... I simply can't find any that prophecy a general restoration of Judah. ...

... and refuse such when shown, because as my favorite aunt used to tease: My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts.



But the difference is, -- she was teasing, but you're serious.
ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing)

 

[Keraz]

ELAM

Elam the dog does the thinking and Bobby posts the vituperative abuse.

The Restoration of Judah? Not likely:
DESTRUCTION IS DECREED Deut. 32:34-43, Jeremiah 8 & 9, Matthew 21:43

Isaiah 3:1-9 The Lord is about to strip Judah of every prop and support, all of their leaders, generals and counsellors will lose their positions. I shall appoint inexperienced people to positions of authority. Oppression and arrogance will stalk the Land and there will be severe shortages of food and water.
Judah is brought low, for in word and deed, they defy the Lord. The look on their faces testifies against them. Like Sodom, they parade their sins. Woe betide them, they have earned the disaster that will strike them.

Isaiah 3:10-11 Happy are the righteous. All goes well with them. Woe to the wicked, disaster is upon them. My people, those who guide you are leading you astray.

Isaiah 3:13-26 The Lord stands up to judge His people. He opens the indictment against the elders and leaders; it is you who have ruined My vineyard. You have crushed My people and oppressed the poor.
You women of Zion; I will take away your finery, instead of coifed hair, you will be bald.
Your men will fall by the sword of the Lord, as in battle. Judah’s defenses are stripped bare, laid flat to the ground.
[Isaiah 22:2 & 8…your slain did not fall by the sword, as in battle….and the mainstays of Judah’s defences are removed.]

Isaiah 4:3-6 Those who remain in Jerusalem, whose survival was decreed, will be called holy.
Isaiah 6:13, Isaiah 29:1-8, Zechariah 13:8-9, Romans 9:27
When the Lord washes away the filth of Jerusalem by a spirit of judgement burning like fire, He will create a cloud by day and a flame by night over Mt Zion, to be a covering for shade and shelter. [In the same way as for ancient Israel]

Isaiah 10:17-23 The Light of Israel will become a fire, their Holy One, a flame: that in a single day will burn up and consume His enemies. Malachi 4:1&3, 2 Peter 3:7
The forests and pastures will be destroyed, only a few trees will remain. Joel 1:19-20

On that Day, the remnant of Israel, the survivors of Jacob [all 12 tribes] will set their allegiance solely on the Lord.
A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob, will return to God, their strength.
Israel, though you are as the sands of the sea – only a remnant will return. The Lord will carry out the destruction decreed upon all of the Holy Land.
Reference, REB, NIV, KJV, some verses condensed.


Judah will be judged and the entire Middle East region will be virtually depopulated by a terrible fire from the sun and only a holy remnant will be saved. I am convinced that this Bible passage tells of events soon to happen, the coming Day of judgement onto all the world and His people; a remnant of Jacob [from all 12 tribes, plus those grafted in by reason of righteousness] going to live in all of the Promised Land, before the Return of Jesus. Ezekiel 40 to 48, Rev. 7.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Elam ... does the thinking and Bobby Jo posts the vituperative abuse. ...

Proverbs 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; profuse are the kisses of an enemy.​

Would you prefer the KISSES, or the TRUTH?


ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing)

 

[Billy Evmur]

I don't ignore any scripture. I simply can't find any that prophecy a general restoration of Judah.
It will be the Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples from every race, nation and language, who will become a great nation in all of the holy land. Isaiah 62:1-5

Isaiah 62 cannot possibly pertain to the church

For Zion's sake I will not keep silent and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest until her vindication goes forth as brightness and her salvation as a burning torch ... The church has never had such promises made to her, we are to expect persecution and rejection.

Nor will nations beat their swords into ploughshares and their spears into pruning hooks, rather we are warned that there will be wars until the end of the age.

vs 4. we have never been termed forsaken by the Lord as Israel has or desolate.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Hey BE,
I don't think you understand what "free will" means. -- We can BLAME anything from threat of death to a hangnail why we deny Jesus, but the result is the same. Whether Shadrach, Meschach, and Abednego, or You, Me, and Bobby Jo, we all face a "furnace" sometime in our lives. And so we TAKE A STAND, and not find an excuse.

With Very Best Regards,
ELAM (in the picture, with Bobby Jo doing the typing. )

Two things bind man's will outside of Christ, sin, everybody sins, apart from Christ there has never been a man or woman who had free will not to sin. Death also binds man's will, no man of his free will can refuse to die.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Jacob was worthy? I don't think so. Israel will convert to Christ, they fell as a nation they will rise as a nation.

There is no better picture of this in the bible than the story of Joseph. Chosen by God, rejected by his brothers [who were Israel] sold into the hands of the gentiles he became lord and saviour to the whole world. The story of Joseph ends with Israel being reconciled to Joseph and saved [from the famine].

"they shall look upon Him whom they have pierced and mourn for Him as for a firstborn son"

God will pour out a spirit of compassion and supplication upon Israel and they will seek Him, the whole nation will seek Him in prayer, the men separate from the women and the women separate from the men.

No the 11 boys of Jacob Israel were not worthy of being Israel, only one was truly worthy of such a title as a true Israelite in fact, without Joseph they were nothing, His dad knew this fact, that's why he gave him that coat and all remember, the rest were not worthy and only other hope was in Joseph's true brother remember that. all the other brothers were only half brothers. not to mention Jacob never wanted them. Jacob only truly desired one woman as his wife.
Jacob was Israel and Joseph was a true Israel.
Joseph was not Lord or Saviour at all, there is only one Lord and Saviour and he is Gods only begotten Son.
There is only one Son that is begotten ? in the second coming it is he who comes, not in the flesh ! but in the Holy Spirit.
People who claim that a man in the flesh will come claiming to be Jesus in the 2ed coming are under strong delusions of this world. remember their is only one begotten Son, not two ?

As for the ones claiming to be Jews, such does not mean a cracker, because they are not worthy of God at all, the regards as to the blood line is crap from the day that Jesus Christ came, anyone who makes such claims is lost as to Christ Jesus. you must have the Holy Spirit to comprehend Jesus is the Christ and outside of such is nonsense.
The Poor Jews majority were under delusions back in the days that Jesus walked among them, they seen him in the flesh ! Now we have claims that when the so called Jews see him in the flesh they will believe in him, well no not at all, because the Apostles only had some faith in him apart from Nathaniel who knew who he truly was directly, now Nathaniel was a true Israelite in fact as Jesus said so of him and what he would see ? remember that powerful message that he would see, one can not beat that bro !
Now as for them Jews who had faith is Jesus, it was only after he had been risen that they truly knew who Jesus truly was in fact.
Peter even had doubts bro, remember the roosters crowing story.

Fact is if one does not have the Holy Spirit you are not worthy of God regardless.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... apart from Christ there has never been a man or woman who had free will not to sin. ...

Not correct. Each person is tempted, and we all fall to temptation. WE CHOOSE, and we choose poorly, -- whether in Christ or out of Christ --, we still choose, and we still choose poorly because sin remains in all of us.

Roman 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.​

With Best Regards,
ELAM (... and Bobby Jo typing)

 

[teamventure]

Israel are still a distinct group of people from Christians and that's why they are refered to directly in eschatology.
Even if you're replacement theology you should atleast understand they are a distinct group to God.

 

[Billy Evmur]

I don't ignore any scripture. I simply can't find any that prophecy a general restoration of Judah.
It will be the Israelites of God, His faithful Christian peoples from every race, nation and language, who will become a great nation in all of the holy land. Isaiah 62:1-5

You do ignore scripture

Paul says Israel has not stumbled so as to fall, you say they have so you are in disagreement.

Paul says that a blindness has happened to part of Israel until the full number of gentiles come in. You disagree with that.

Stop disagreeing with Paul.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Not correct. Each person is tempted, and we all fall to temptation. WE CHOOSE, and we choose poorly, -- whether in Christ or out of Christ --, we still choose, and we still choose poorly because sin remains in all of us.

Roman 7:19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me.​

With Best Regards,
ELAM (... and Bobby Jo typing)

No, if that were true there would be no need for the cross, all we would need would be to exert our free will. Paul shows us that our flesh is slaves to sin. We need to die to the flesh and the cross provides a way for us to do so.

Romans. 7. is Saul of Tarsus thanks be to Christ Jesus who set him free. Romans. 8. is Paul the apostle.

 

[Billy Evmur]

No the 11 boys of Jacob Israel were not worthy of being Israel, only one was truly worthy of such a title as a true Israelite in fact, without Joseph they were nothing, His dad knew this fact, that's why he gave him that coat and all remember, the rest were not worthy and only other hope was in Joseph's true brother remember that. all the other brothers were only half brothers. not to mention Jacob never wanted them. Jacob only truly desired one woman as his wife.
Jacob was Israel and Joseph was a true Israel.
Joseph was not Lord or Saviour at all, there is only one Lord and Saviour and he is Gods only begotten Son.
There is only one Son that is begotten ? in the second coming it is he who comes, not in the flesh ! but in the Holy Spirit.
People who claim that a man in the flesh will come claiming to be Jesus in the 2ed coming are under strong delusions of this world. remember their is only one begotten Son, not two ?

As for the ones claiming to be Jews, such does not mean a cracker, because they are not worthy of God at all, the regards as to the blood line is crap from the day that Jesus Christ came, anyone who makes such claims is lost as to Christ Jesus. you must have the Holy Spirit to comprehend Jesus is the Christ and outside of such is nonsense.
The Poor Jews majority were under delusions back in the days that Jesus walked among them, they seen him in the flesh ! Now we have claims that when the so called Jews see him in the flesh they will believe in him, well no not at all, because the Apostles only had some faith in him apart from Nathaniel who knew who he truly was directly, now Nathaniel was a true Israelite in fact as Jesus said so of him and what he would see ? remember that powerful message that he would see, one can not beat that bro !
Now as for them Jews who had faith is Jesus, it was only after he had been risen that they truly knew who Jesus truly was in fact.
Peter even had doubts bro, remember the roosters crowing story.

Fact is if one does not have the Holy Spirit you are not worthy of God regardless.

I reckon before you were converted to Christ you were a rascal. We all are rascals apart from Christ.
We see from forums how that even christians who are most surely saved can be as mean as the devil himself, many fall from grace even though they are saved.

Everything we have is from the Jews, it was Jewish blood that was shed for the remission of your sins.

God says this
"The Jews are enemies of the gospel for your sakes but as touching election they are beloved for the father's sake for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable."

Instead of being anti Jew you ought to love them and seek earnestly for their conversion.

 

[Brakelite]

897 ‭Βαβυλών‭ Babulon ‭bab–oo–lone’‭
‭
‭‭of Hebrew origin ‭0894‭ ‭לבֶבָּ‭; n pr loc; TDNT–1:514,89; ‭{ See TDNT 117}‭
‭
‭‭AV–Babylon 12; 12‭
‭
‭‭Babylon = "confusion

If there is ever an example of confusion in the modem church, just go to any discussion on the subject of eschatology.

 

[Billy Evmur]

897 ‭Βαβυλών‭ Babulon ‭bab–oo–lone’‭
‭
‭‭of Hebrew origin ‭0894‭ ‭לבֶבָּ‭; n pr loc; TDNT–1:514,89; ‭{ See TDNT 117}‭
‭
‭‭AV–Babylon 12; 12‭
‭
‭‭Babylon = "confusion

If there is ever an example of confusion in the modem church, just go to any discussion on the subject of eschatology.

The primitive church believed the doctrines I believe. In the 4th century the church decided to drop the teaching concerning the reign of Christ on earth and adopted amillennialism. That's what threw the doctrines of last things out of order.

Then in the 19th century Darby came along and tinkered with 2.Thessalonians 2. and threw that doctrine into confusion.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... Romans. 7. is Saul of Tarsus thanks be to Christ Jesus who set him free. Romans. 8. is Paul the apostle.

Perhaps you should re-read Roman 7.

With Best Regards,
ELAM (with bobby jo doing the typing)

 

[Keraz]

Instead of being anti Jew you ought to love them and seek earnestly for their conversion.

Do not accuse anyone here of being anti-Jew.
They do it themselves, by their Jesus rejecting, atheistic, LGBT and arrogant behavior.

Bible prophecy never says their will be a general Jewish redemption. Only a remnant of Christian Jews will be saved.
This truth destroys the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, as that theory must have Israel, as the Jews falsely call themselves; on earth going thru the Great Trib, while they sit in heaven.
This very pretentious and totally unscriptural idea isn't going to happen and we all must keep firm in our faith and endure until the end.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... They do it themselves, by their Jesus rejecting, atheistic, LGBT and arrogant behavior. ...

There you go again, -- slandering and accusing. -- That's what satan does. Don't be like satan.


Or at least try not to be SO MUCH like satan ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Billy Evmur]

Do not accuse anyone here of being anti-Jew.
They do it themselves, by their Jesus rejecting, atheistic, LGBT and arrogant behavior.

Bible prophecy never says their will be a general Jewish redemption. Only a remnant of Christian Jews will be saved.
This truth destroys the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, as that theory must have Israel, as the Jews falsely call themselves; on earth going thru the Great Trib, while they sit in heaven.
This very pretentious and totally unscriptural idea isn't going to happen and we all must keep firm in our faith and endure until the end.

They are no worse than you before you were saved ... stop your argument against Paul he says they are at present cast away but they will be received, they will [says he] attain full inclusion, at present they are rejected but they will be accepted.

The purpose of the remnant is to keep the whole nation from being overthrown.

Who are you to say who God should elect? or on what basis? the only basis for election is that they are of the seed of Abraham ... that is the nation of Israel. They are the chosen people.

Paul does not want you to be ignorant, he does not want you to be wise in your own conceits concerning Israel
Romans 11.25.
lest you be wise in your own conceits Paul wants YOU to understand this mystery.

A hardening has come upon part of Israel until the full number of the gentiles come in

and so ALL Israel will be saved ... as it is written
The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will banish ungodliness from Jacob, and this will be My covenant with them when I take away their sins.

Does that sound like your doctrine? then you are in disagreement with Paul.

Paul says in 1.Corinthians "if our earthly tent is destroyed we have an eternal home in heaven" so you are wrong about that too

The church will reign with Christ from heaven, the Jews will reign with Him on earth.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I reckon before you were converted to Christ you were a rascal. We all are rascals apart from Christ.
We see from forums how that even christians who are most surely saved can be as mean as the devil himself, many fall from grace even though they are saved.

Everything we have is from the Jews, it was Jewish blood that was shed for the remission of your sins.

God says this
"The Jews are enemies of the gospel for your sakes but as touching election they are beloved for the father's sake for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable."

Instead of being anti Jew you ought to love them and seek earnestly for their conversion.

No I did all that my dad told me to do, looking back I am amassed at what a good child I was never back chat him ever, so as to being a rascal no not at all.

Sin is another thing, such is blindness of this world's delusions and temptations, when one becomes truly born again then one as power over Sin because you have a handle on such, that does not mean that such a one is not a Sinner, but only that one is not lost to Sin.

No True Christian falls from Grace.

The Jews are nothing, if one has no Grace one is chaff.

Israel is not a race at all, it's a way of life under God abiding in God, serving God.

The Jews do not exist and have not existed now for 2000 years in fact, what you have is people making stupid claims that they are Jews.
The only point that could be related to one claiming to be a Jew is, because they are following the OT but they do not in fact follow the OT, because if they did follow the OT I would be glad that one did as that would make one worthy of such in their deeds, but they are clearly not.

If the Jews as such were worthy and seriously into the OT then they would know and abide in Holy Moses, it's only then that they could come to know Jesus is the Christ in fact, just as it was 2000 years ago with the few who had faith in Jesus and they had this faith in him because they were in fact worthy to be called Israelites, the rest were not worthy of such a title as they were just only Jews, that's something like water baptised Christians are sort of on the same level.

For a Jew to be worthy they must abide totally in Holy Moses, sadly no so called Jew nowadays does such because they are into much deceptions in there so called religions, that they are under great delusions, the Talmud for one is a great Whore of insanity that makes them worship Satan.

Any true Christian wishes all to come to Christ Jesus in fact. but don't be fooled into idolising anyone regardless of who or what the may claim they are.

I myself am from a Jewish blood line, my sir name is Jewish and I grew up with and know many Jews, I have no delusions about them and I do not idolise anyone at all regardless of who or what they are. I understand the nature of original Sin. even a worthy Jew is not that stupid to idolise Man.