It is not in the bible.....sola scripture

[Jun2u]

Will you back quote in future? Perhaps I'm assuming too much that you know how to back quote. I'll be happy to show you!

I may be illiterate when it comes to computers, but not about the things of God. If I understood you correctly, yes, please, by all means, show me how to back quote.

I'll be waiting for this answer before I reply to your post #1198.

To God Be The Glory

 

[amadeus]

Thanks for your response. However, I see another point of view on your example about Peter sinking into the ocean. Peter was not in view at the saving of eight in the flood.

When we do not focus our eyes on Jesus at any time we will always get into trouble and will begin to falter and sink. I believe this is the teaching of Matthew 14:29-30.

To God Be The Glory

I was not saying that you are wrong, for your point is certainly a valid one, but God speaks many messages to us through the scripture and sometimes the same verses have multiple messages depending on where the recipient is and what he needs at the moment according to God.

The water itself within scripture may be symbolic of more than one thing for us. There is, of course, Living Water on the one hand, but on the other hand there is water of the sea which can drown a person.

Give God the glory!

 

[bbyrd009]

Living Water on the one hand, but on the other hand there is water of the sea which can drown a person.

"waters" may also stand for "people," i guess

 

[amadeus]

"waters" may also stand for "people," i guess

Most certainly. Sometimes people who have studied long and well think they understand the Bible, but usually [always?] they have only just scratched the surface of what God placed in it.

 

[twinc]

I was not saying that you are wrong, for your point is certainly a valid one, but God speaks many messages to us through the scripture and sometimes the same verses have multiple messages depending on where the recipient is and what he needs at the moment according to God.

The water itself within scripture may be symbolic of more than one thing for us. There is, of course, Living Water on the one hand, but on the other hand there is water of the sea which can drown a person.

Give God the glory!

this is what is claimed, here, there and elsewhere but is clearly and dangerously just not so = Hebrews 1:1 tells us exactly who spoke to who and leaves us to gather that now He speaks to us via His Scriptures and His Church - twinc

 

[amadeus]

this is what is claimed, here, there and elsewhere but is clearly and dangerously just not so = Hebrews 1:1 tells us exactly who spoke to who and leaves us to gather that now He speaks to us via His Scriptures and His Church - twinc

Read not just the one verse, but both verses and then...

"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; " Heb 1:1-2

The "us" is those with "ears to hear" what the Son speaks and the Church is all of the people who are a part of the Church, not only the designated ministers.

Mar 4:23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

And where is it that one comes by "ears to hear" but by the Word of God:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[mjrhealth]

lets for a change be reasonable and not radicalised - again be told the big mistake or error is to apply to us what does not apply to us 1Jn 2:27 is not addressed to us - stop boasting about your learning which is fallacious - so yes the centuries have come and gone and even now we can judge "by their fruits we know them = division, dissent, disagreement, disputes, despair, contradictions, confusion and chaos - twinc

Sorry but it does apply to us, it is you that wants to boast about how you taught yourself, thats what men do. To have teh Holy Spirit means to rely upon instruction from God, who wants to be taught, when one can boast they know everything. Well Saul though he had it all, than along came Jesus, whom he did not know.

If you dont want teh Holy Spirit, that is your undoing. Empty Vessels, God just cant seem to find to many, to filled with self, but that is what "learning" and "religion" does to people.

 

[OzSpen]

I may be illiterate when it comes to computers, but not about the things of God. If I understood you correctly, yes, please, by all means, show me how to back quote.

I'll be waiting for this answer before I reply to your post #1198.

To God Be The Glory

Jun2u,

You have back quoted perfectly.

 

[OzSpen]

Most certainly. Sometimes people who have studied long and well think they understand the Bible, but usually [always?] they have only just scratched the surface of what God placed in it.

How do you know that? Has this student of Scripture, now aged 85, only 'just scratched the surface' of understanding Scripture?

I'd be wary of making the kind of statement you have made here.

 

[bbyrd009]

i think he qualified it well enough, allowing for exceptions. It isn't too hard to admit that most men in that position are impossibly sanctimonious, i don't think

 

[Jun2u]

I was not saying that you are wrong, for your point is certainly a valid one, but God speaks many messages to us through the scripture and sometimes the same verses have multiple messages depending on where the recipient is and what he needs at the moment according to God.

The water itself within scripture may be symbolic of more than one thing for us. There is, of course, Living Water on the one hand, but on the other hand there is water of the sea which can drown a person.

Give God the glory!

Indeed water can either save or destroy just as you have said in the example of the flood in Noah’s day. However, I believe God has a fundamental principle He wishes to teach in Matthew 14:27- 31. That is, if we don’t focus our eyes on Jesus we will surely falter and start to sink (get into deep water, as the saying goes).

Note that the setting is in the ocean. Note also how Jesus assured the disciples it is He walking, so as to keep them calm and be unafraid. And then Peter asks if he could come and Jesus replied come. Note how Peter walked for a moment focusing on Jesus, and as soon he started to focus on the boisterous wind, he became afraid and started to sink.

Isn’t this so true that when we take our eyes off on Jesus, and look at the rigors of life, we begin to falter and sink, but when we focus our eyes back on Jesus again, we develop a sense of calmness and serenity within, as he did with the disciples (verse 27). Isn’t it typical of the Lord Jesus to stretch out His hand and catch us when we falter?

But what did Jesus say? O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? Doubting will also cause us to fall instead of trusting.

I know I have not said it eloquently enough, but the above is precisely how I perceived Matthew 14:27-31 to teach, and NOT any other teaching cause the context won't allow it

To God Be The Glory

 

[OzSpen]

Indeed water can either save or destroy just as you have said in the example of the flood in Noah’s day. However, I believe God has a fundamental principle He wishes to teach in Matthew 14:27- 31. That is, if we don’t focus our eyes on Jesus we will surely falter and start to sink (get into deep water, as the saying goes).

Jun2u,

Your interpretation of Matt 14:27-31 is found nowhere in the text. It is invented by you and imposed on the text through your allegorical interpretation.

 

[amadeus]

How do you know that? Has this student of Scripture, now aged 85, only 'just scratched the surface' of understanding Scripture?

I'd be wary of making the kind of statement you have made here.

You needn't be so defensive.
I would not presume to know whether or not you have only scratched the surface of what God has for you in scripture. God has not shared with me the depths of your heart, but I also have no doubt that He knows it even better than you.

 

[Jun2u]

Jun2u,

Your interpretation of Matt 14:27-31 is found nowhere in the text. It is invented by you and imposed on the text through your allegorical interpretation.

If you are truly a Bible student you would know Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable did He not speak (Mark 4:34).

Reasons He spoke in parables?…

Mark 4:10-12
10 And when He was alone, they that wwere about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable.
11 And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

And…

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Try the above sometime and see how the scriptures open up your understand.

The whole Bible is a historical as well as a spiritual book which makes the Bible a historical parable. Why? Because the Gospel message should be seen in every page of of the whole Bible! If we don’t see the Gospel message it is not because it is not there, it is because God has not opened our spiritual eyes to it.

Never, never tell another Christian his interpretation is wrong (this is what many in these forums do) without examining if your interpretation is more faithful than his.

To God Be The Glory

 

[twinc]

If you are truly a Bible student you would know Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable did He not speak (Mark 4:34).

Reasons He spoke in parables?…

Mark 4:10-12
10 And when He was alone, they that wwere about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable.
11 And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

And…

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Try the above sometime and see how the scriptures open up your understand.

The whole Bible is a historical as well as a spiritual book which makes the Bible a historical parable. Why? Because the Gospel message should be seen in every page of of the whole Bible! If we don’t see the Gospel message it is not because it is not there, it is because God has not opened our spiritual eyes to it.

Never, never tell another Christian his interpretation is wrong (this is what many in these forums do) without examining if your interpretation is more faithful than his.

To God Be The Glory

If you are truly a Bible student you would know Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable did He not speak (Mark 4:34).

Reasons He spoke in parables?…

Mark 4:10-12
10 And when He was alone, they that wwere about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable.
11 And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

And…

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Try the above sometime and see how the scriptures open up your understand.

The whole Bible is a historical as well as a spiritual book which makes the Bible a historical parable. Why? Because the Gospel message should be seen in every page of of the whole Bible! If we don’t see the Gospel message it is not because it is not there, it is because God has not opened our spiritual eyes to it.

Never, never tell another Christian his interpretation is wrong (this is what many in these forums do) without examining if your interpretation is more faithful than his.

To God Be The Glory

of course you are wrong in this very interpretation which is your own claiming to be right and not that propounded by Scriptures or Church as another gospel or teaching that the literal and/or obvious must always be accepted unless reason or necessity dictate otherwise - btw would you yourself say you are not a natural man - of course you misquote and misunderstand Mk 4:34 without 33 and Mk 4:10-12 without 13 imho - twinc

 

[Helen]

of course you are wrong in this very interpretation which is your own claiming to be right and not that propounded by Scriptures or Church as another gospel or teaching that the literal and/or obvious must always be accepted unless reason or necessity dictate otherwise - btw would you yourself say you are not a natural man - of course you misquote and misunderstand Mk 4:34 without 33 and Mk 4:10-12 without 13 imho - twinc

twinc I think the only reason you post anything is so you can keep telling people how wrong they are..
Who abdicated and appointed you God??? This is about the forth time today you start you post with:-
"You are wrong"
...you may well be 88 but that doesn't mean that some of these other people don't also have some knowledge of the issues. Neither does age give an excuse from being polite.

 

[Helen]

Jun2u,

You have back quoted perfectly.

I think he was too polite to tell you that he's not very used to getting red roses from other men.
The name is somewhat misleading I do agree...

 

[OzSpen]

You needn't be so defensive.
I would not presume to know whether or not you have only scratched the surface of what God has for you in scripture. God has not shared with me the depths of your heart, but I also have no doubt that He knows it even better than you.

There was no intended defensiveness in what I wrote. I found your comment to be over the top, even an hyperbole.

 

[OzSpen]

If you are truly a Bible student you would know Jesus spoke in parables and without a parable did He not speak (Mark 4:34).

Reasons He spoke in parables?…

Mark 4:10-12
10 And when He was alone, they that wwere about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable.
11 And He said unto them, unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

And…

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Try the above sometime and see how the scriptures open up your understand.

The whole Bible is a historical as well as a spiritual book which makes the Bible a historical parable. Why? Because the Gospel message should be seen in every page of of the whole Bible! If we don’t see the Gospel message it is not because it is not there, it is because God has not opened our spiritual eyes to it.

Never, never tell another Christian his interpretation is wrong (this is what many in these forums do) without examining if your interpretation is more faithful than his.

To God Be The Glory

Let's read the context of Mark 4:30-34 (NIV):

30 Again he said, “What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it? 31 It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest of all seeds on earth. 32 Yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds can perch in its shade.”

33 With many similar parables Jesus spoke the word to them, as much as they could understand. 34 He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything.​

Jesus was talking about the flow on from the mustard seed parable. Please note ALL of v. 34, 'He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples, he explained everything'. He spoke the mustard seed parable to the disciples but then 'he explained everything' to them and that was not a parable.

Please tell me: Are these words from Jesus a parable?

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matt 25:31-46 NIV).​

Yes, Jesus spoke some parables, but there is much that he said that was narrative and not parable, like this: “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” (Matt 25:46 NIV).

Please try making that into a parable.

Oz

 

[bbyrd009]

Please try making that into a parable.

18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment [2851 /kólasis, "torment"], and the one who fears is not perfected in love."