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Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Robert Gwin, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Again Cassy, truth is truth, if a Bible is altered, it should be easy to seem being that we live in the time of the fulfillment of Daniel 12:4. Are you able to see the deliberate alteration of Ps 110:1 in many versions of the Bible maam?

    The fact is either what I say is truth or it is not. You need to prove it to yourself however. I certainly am far from being perfect in my understanding as well, but some things are easily seen with just a little effort.
     
  2. Cassandra

    Cassandra Well-Known Member

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    Altered from what, and when?
    What was the true then? Please quit calling me ma'am. Sounds like you are speaking snotz to me
     
  3. JohnPaul

    JohnPaul Well-Known Member

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    Jehovah is God the Father and Jesus Christ his only begotten Son, two separate entities.

    Why else would he refer to Jehovah as his father if he and Jehovah are one in the same.

    Really easy to understand.
     
  4. David H.

    David H. Well-Known Member

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    I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. (Isaiah 42:8) This verse is Jehovah Speaking.
    And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (John 17:5) This is Jesus Speaking...

    Now either Jesus is usurping the authority of Jehovah here, or He is Jehovah in Human form....

    Once Judas Iscarriot (Satan possessed) leaves the presence of the Apostles in John 13, in what is known as the upper room discourse (John 13-17), Jesus reveals his true nature to the Apostles who knew him as the Christ, the Son of the living God up until that time. the culmination of this comes when He says "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9) Showing He is the "I AM" of the Old Testament and that this belief is the very essence of the Gospel to be preached upon his fulfillment of the New Covenant by His blood which would commence after his death and resurrection.
     
  5. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    See you choose a mans opinion over the word of God. I listed for you on another thread that it is the blood needed for the forgiveness of sins. Even the word resurrection (ana stasis) standing again, requires Jesus physical resurrection! Once again you deny Gods Word to adhere to a man made organizations slick philosophy!

    If Jesus was stood up again(resurrected-anastasis) what was laid down? Did Jesus die and invisible spirit creature? Did Jesus die as Michale? of did Jesus die as messiah? what was laid down? Was Jesus spirit laid down in the tomb?
     
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  6. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    So you are like mormnons in that all spirit being are god like.

    Once again you deny the plain teaching of Scripture to accept a man made sects opinion!

    Angels do not have the same essence as God, they are angelic not divine.

    Jesus is not angelic but divine! Whatever nature god the Father has, God the son has.

    Titles given to jesus by God the Father inspiring them.

    Elohim
    Jehovah of Hosts- Isaiah 44
    Jevohah our righteousness- Jer. 23:6. Jer. 33:16
    Mighty god Is.
    Father of eternity.
    First and last: Isaiah and rev.
    God John, Timothy.

    Yet the watchtrower cannot exalt him and redefines the terms.
     
  7. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    You did say that and are denying the agency of God and his long track record of delegating his work to his servants, such as the man Jesus.

    The Bible explicitly says the man Jesus and never says the God Jesus. This means nothing to you.
     
  8. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Equal to the man Adam.
     
  9. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    And that offends you? In the dichotomy of ultimate reality, there is heaven and Earth. God is in heaven, right? Where are other Spirit beings? Also in heaven.

    Man is not in heaven but Earth.

    In this way spirit being are god like without being God.

    Indeed, angels are divine as all heavenly being (Elohim) are. However, neither they nor Jesus are deity. From Definition of DIVINE

    Essential Meaning of divine
    1 : relating to or coming from God or a god

    Only God is a deity. Jesus is not a deity but is said to be 'of God.' (That is, the son of God). If one is 'of God' one cannot be God. This is how you know Jesus is divine but not the deity, who he is of.

    Agreed.

    This is demonstrably untrue. It is sad when people advance their doctrine in the face of demonstrable facts.
    1. No one has seen God but people have seen Jesus.
    2. Jesus is of God but God is not 'of Jesus.' Sons come from their Father's. Father's don't come from their sons.
    3. God is eternal. Jesus died.
    4. Jesus asked God for the cup to be taken from him. God did not ask Jesus for his cup to be taken from him.
    5. God sent Jesus. Jesus did not send Jesus.
    6. God told Jesus what to say. Jesus did not tell God what to say.
    7. God gave his only begotten son. Jesus did not give God.
    One other point you must know. God is equated to the Father alone in Scripture. Scripture explicitly states 'God the Father.' There is not one single instance in Scripture of Jesus being referred to that suits your doctrine, 'God the Son.' This disqualifies your claim Whatever nature god the Father has, God the son has.
     
  10. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    No.

    I did? Who was that? To be honest, I don't know what a Christian Scientist is but it sounds good.

    You hang with an intolerant lot eh?

    On the radio today going to the gym a church ad said one does not have to make themselves perfect to go to their church. It seems like you go the other kind of church, where the non-scientists hang.
     
  11. Ronald David Bruno

    Ronald David Bruno Well-Known Member

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    In the thread, ‘Question: What convinces you that the Bible is from God’, post # 65 you wrote:

    "Well, the evidence I am talking about is not prophetic signs but things like The Signature in the Cell and human DNA being 4D of information. A famous atheist recently came out in changing his mind about the existence of God because of this undeniable evidence that points to an Intelligent Designer.

    It really is an exciting time to be a Christian scientist."

    Did you just mean a scientist who is a Christian?
    Can't find the Christian Scientist quoted, maybe someone else did. If you say, you are not one, than that's okay with me.
     
  12. Ronald David Bruno

    Ronald David Bruno Well-Known Member

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    I didn't cut off scripture, I am well aware that He said He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That identifies Him but doesn't name Him. He gave Moses an introduction to the Great "I AM" that would later be filled in: I am the way, I am the bread, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the resurrection and the life, I am the Door, I am the Vine, etc. The whole book of John is about Jesus deity. You are in denial if you cannot see that. No one can claim the things that Jesus did and not be God. "I am the Life". The creator of Life. I am the Way. We would except that a prophet would point to God and not himself. He would not take credit for anything - NOR WOULD AN ANGEL TAKE CREDIT. GOD ALWAYS RECEIVES THE CREDIT. If Jesus was not God, we would not be obeying Him at all. He would have instructed us to obey His Father. He would have instructed us to put our faith in our FATHER (and we do and pray to Him) but Jesus commands us to obey, believe in Him for eternal life, put our faith in Him. He is our FOCUS. WE ARE FIXED ON JESUS. IF HE WASN'T GOD THERE WOULD BE QUITE A DIFFERENT STORY TOLD. And here we have Jesus with all these claims. I am the truth. He is the fullness of Grace and Glory. He can't be the fullness of Grace unless you are God. You can't become trillions of sin and then wash them away and resurrect yourself unless you are God. Col. 1:16, 17 says He created ALL THINGS. He wasn't created. The baby Jesus was physically born but the Spirit of the Son of God incarnated into Jesus in the womb of Mary. Immanuel means God with us.
     
  13. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I meant a scientist who is a Christian.
     
  14. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Answered.
     
  15. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    All spirit beings are spirit beings sir. Jehovah is not referred to as an angel, I would gather because He is not created, but all spirit beings have His essence in that way, but of course all humans are made in His image as well, but are not spirit beings sir.

    You said they were the same in essence, and that is the extent in which I can agree with you. Jesus of course is not Jehovah, nor are any of the other angels.
     
  16. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Yes sir.
    Kinda like the song, perfect in every way
     
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  17. Robert Gwin

    Robert Gwin Well-Known Member

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    Then why did you not give the name Jehovah gave to Moses? Yes sir, you stopped when you heard what you wanted to hear, rather than what He said.
     
  18. David H.

    David H. Well-Known Member

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    ONLY the Blood of God could redeem us, those who do not believe in the deity of Jesus have not been redeemed because the blood they believe in is not God's blood. If Jesus is not God, then when did God shed his blood to redeem us? I have yet to hear a JW answer this question.

    Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:28)
     
  19. Ronald David Bruno

    Ronald David Bruno Well-Known Member

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    I presented dozens of English translations of Ex. 3:14, where God tells Moses, "I AM WHO I AM: and He said, 'Say this ti the people if Israel, I AM has sent me to you".
    In verse 6 and 13 God already identified Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ... the God of your fathers. This wasn't enough for Moses, so He asked for His name. God told Him specifically, what He wanted Moses to say. In verse 15, Adonai, LORD is used. JW's have changed this word 7000 times to Jehovah.
    Jesus is the great I AM. The Supreme Being with infinite knowledge and power. "I Am" is the WORD, the exact expression and illumination of GOD, the Creator, with no begginning and no end, Who would empty Himself and become a human in the future through Christ. Moses could not contain or grasp this. When Christ came, Moses and Elijah did appear as spirutual beings as witnesses to Christ's glorified state.
     
  20. Ronald David Bruno

    Ronald David Bruno Well-Known Member

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    Jesus did not regard equally with God something that man would grasp, so He didn't push the issue. Many people who believed in Him, the Messiah and Savior still did not grasp His deity, yet believed what He said. They beleived He died for their sins and rose on the third day. And that He was God's Son. The depth of understanding of His nature wasn't a prerequisite. I am not sure it is now, though 98% of Christians believe this. We cannot judge Non-trinitarians or anyone. We cannot put them in the group whom only God knows are reprobate. God is the judge.
    I would be careful not to condemn anyone. My father was a professed atheist until close to death.
    My mother was a rebellious liberal person on the fringe of her own spiritual smorgasbord of beliefs. I had chipped away at those beliefs for 30 years and almost gave up hope ... until just days before her death when she confessed to believing that Jesus was always there for her and had his hand on her should. She was singing to us, "Jesus loves me ... "! So let's not condemn. We never know. Drug addicted murderers in prison come to faith in Christ. He is merciful.
     
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