Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well we are through. YOu deny Scripture openly and willingly. You accept the word of men over the word of God. Have the last post if you wish, but I am done with you and your unwillingness to accept the Word of God.
Jehovah is either God or He is not, correct?
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Well we are through. YOu deny Scripture openly and willingly. You accept the word of men over the word of God. Have the last post if you wish, but I am done with you and your unwillingness to accept the Word of God.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
So then He died as a spirit, unless you accept redefining the word resurrection. But we are through, you are too well invested in teh lies and deception of the watchtower to even see simple words and their meaning anymore ---Sir!
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Christ was resurrected and ascended into Heaven to be seated at the right hand of his Father, Christ is not God but his son.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Yes He is not His Father. when using god as a person, no He is not God the Father. but Jesus is equally divine (God) as His Father. they share the same essence but different persons.
He is equal to His Father in divinity but inferior to His Father in position.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
My question was not about your (or Strong's) definition. What is wrong with you?
My question is about your capacity of discernment. So far, you are certainly making an impression.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Only his Father is a deity. Only his Father is God. Scripture says this 10,000 times.
JohnPaul
Soldier of Jehovah and Christ
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
And it is no coincidence that corruption of the text was in line with the trinity doctrine that only became accepted officially into “the church” in the 4th century and through much controversy. It is an invention of the RCC, along with many other additions that crept in over time.
So fast forward to 1611 and the foretold apostasy in Christendom had already sealed the errors that would be contained in the KJV. Trinitarian bias is seen everywhere.
The Bible had been withheld from the people by the church for centuries, which claimed its role as Christ’s representatives on earth, but who added so many extra-biblical beliefs to their litany of errors, that the people had no way to question any of it......until some brave souls, who risked their lives to do so, sought to have God’s word translated into their own language, and made available to the common people. Only then could they see that so many of the church’s teachings were additions to what Christ taught...the trinity...immortality of the soul.....and hellfire to name a few. These erroneous doctrines form the very foundation of Christendom's belief system......but these are not Christian teachings.
Not only are there thousands of manuscripts to compare but discoveries of older Bible manuscripts during past decades take the Greek text back as far as about the year 125 C.E., just a couple of decades short of the death of the apostle John about 100 C.E. These manuscript evidences provide strong assurance that we now have a dependable Greek text in refined form.
The evaluation that the former director and librarian of the British Museum, Sir Frederic Kenyon, is as follows:
“The interval then between the dates of original composition and the earliest extant evidence becomes so small as to be in fact negligible, and the last foundation for any doubt that the Scriptures have come down to us substantially as they were written has now been removed. Both the authenticity and the general integrity of the books of the New Testament may be regarded as finally established."
It is the work of the textual refiners to rectify details, and this they have done to a large degree. For this reason, the Westcott and Hort refined Greek text is generally accepted as one of high excellence.
God has blood? Lousy translation again.....
Acts 20:28 RSV...
"Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son."
Mounce Interlinear...
"Watch prosechō out for yourselves heautou and kai for all pas the ho flock poimnion in en which hos the ho Holy hagios Spirit pneuma · ho has placed tithēmi you hymeis overseers episkopos, to shepherd poimainō the ho church ekklēsia of ho God theos, which hos he purchased peripoieō with dia the ho blood haima of ho his own idios Son."
God was never a man.God never needed to be a man.
There is no correlation between John 8:58 and Exodus 3:15....which, from the Jewish Tanakh reads...
"13 And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:
14 God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:
15 And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God [יְהֹוָ֞ה] of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"
God's name was not a statement of his existence, (I AM) but a declaration of his intentions towards his chosen nation.....he would "BE" or "BECOME" whatever he needed to be in order to accomplish his will in connection with them.
In John 8:58, Jesus was answering a question about his age, where he answered that he was in existence before Abraham was even born. There is no "I AM". God's name is much more meaningful than that.
Yes those titles do apply to both.....but it doesn't make Jesus God, any more than the title "Lord" makes him God.
No sorry, Jesus can be a glorious spirit being without being God. Angels are glorious beings too......even satan was once a glorious creature, but ruined his magnificence with improper desires that became disobedient actions. (James 1:13-15) The Greek version for the name of God is "ho theos" (the God). Use of the definite article is the only way the Greeks could identify the one nameless God of the Jews.
The shocked expression of a doubting Thomas does not make a doctrine. The word "theos" in Greek is not used exclusively for Jehovah....it is applied to "ho theos" and to anyone with his divine authority. Jesus indicated that judges in Israel were called "gods" by Jehovah himself. (John 10:31-36)
The RSV renders that verse...
“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born."
Because the Jews never believed that their Messiah would be anything but human, they did not expect that God would become a man and offer his life for them. Nowhere does the Bible say that God became incarnate.....it says that "the Word became flesh". Jesus was the Word who was "with God" "in the beginning"....but the word was not Jehovah, who had no 'beginning' and was not 'beside himself'.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Maybe you missed the Facts of true God worship history. I will share them with you.
From Moses on up until this very day, the Israelite religion, teach, serve and worship a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah)
Thus when Jesus attended those places of worship, was taught, served and worshipped a single being God named-YHWH(Jehovah, as was every bible writer. So what happened?
In the second century a man named Terrillion was considering God as a trinity. Why? Because a single being God was being taught and served still. At the first council of Nicea in 325, no trinity god was being taught or served.
The New Catholic encyclopedia-1967-Vol XIV- Page 299 states--- The formulation-one God in three persons- was not established, certainly not fully assimilated into christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. Among the apostolic fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.
It was made up at a later council. the trinity god does not exist. All being mislead into serving it are breaking Gods #1 commandment daily. Not a wise place to be standing.
Fact is Ron, you didn't include verse 15 where God clearly gave Moses His name and further revealed it was His name eternally. You may have started out ignorant of this fact, but now that it has been discussed, you deliberately choose to ignore what He said. That is fine sir, you made the choice, I choose however to make His name Jehovah, the name He personally revealed to us His people through Moses even to the nations, known sir, just as my mentor Jesus did Jn 17:26. End of discussion.
God's word is truth Ron, neither you nor I can refute that.
Jesus was born in the flesh, and died in it sir. He returned to heaven as he was previously, although he was exalted to the number 2 position, granted sitting at Jehovah's right hand. Fact! Or fiction?
How about this verse? Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 44 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study
Looks to me like this verse calls Jesus Yahweh
Who said , " I am the first and the last?" Jesus.
Rev 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Isaiah 44 - Hebrew English Translation Massoretic Text MT Interlinear Holy Name King James Version KJV Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study
Looks to me like this verse calls Jesus Yahweh
Who said , " I am the first and the last?" Jesus.
Rev 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Keiw
Well-Known Member
How about this verse in the OT-- YHWH said to my lord( Jesus) --Your bible has the LORD said to my lord--Every spot in the NT where-GOD or LORD all capitols is, the name YHWH belongs. Wicked men removed it and replaced it with those titles. they had no right. The New world translation translators had enough love for God and put it back, the ones lacking that love for God, condemned them for it. Clearly showing who is who.
So all those People who died as Christians throughout the centuries died as heretics because the bibles they had been erroneous?
All those people who had the unction of the Holy Spirit throughout the centuries were led astray by the Holy Spirit?
You see the Holy Spirit is the protector of the Word of God through the unction He gives, and any true Christian will have the deity of Christ revealed to them by HIM, not by man's intellect.
It is the RSV that adds the word "Son" to Acts 20:28, none of the other Major versions have this.... Not the NASB, ESV, NIV.... It is you who are resting on the biased text.... (The RSV was translated by non-trinitarians) Hort and Wescott based their translations off of three manuscripts Vaticanus and Sinaiaticus and the gnostic Alexandrian texts.... Sinaiaticus has since been shown to be a forgery, the Alexandrian texts gnostic, and Vaticanus a version full of holes. Hort and wescot were humanists and put their humanist slant to their translations.
But again, the Holy Spirit is the protector of the Word of God, not human reason. The Holy Spirit testifies of who Jesus is to the believer. Without the Holy Spirit's teaching the word of God is a Book that can be translated as you please.
All the KJVonly stuff, and the Hort and Wescott controversy dies when the Holy Spirit is the teacher as he is the Spirit of Truth.
God the Father was never a man, God the Son became a man (Philippians 2:5-11)
False. The Name given in Exodus is the three tenses of the verb "To Be". I was, I Am, I will be.... it is exactly the same as the phrase used in revelation (Was and Is and is to come) and the very same thing Jesus spoke in John 8:58
The Hebrew Name for God - YHVH (hebrew4christians.com)
If You go to the above link that lists some of the names of God you will see that Jesus applied them to himself over and over again throughout his life (The I ams of the Gospel of John). It is the sheer volume of these claims that leads me to conclude He is God incarnate.
I Corinthians 12:3 states: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
If Lord is just a title that applies to Jesus, why then is it that we need the Holy Ghost to to lead us to proclaim Jesus is the Lord? Do you see what I am saying here? Anyone can say Jesus was a master (lord with a small L) But we cannot say Jesus is THE LORD without the unction and teaching of the Holy Ghost. There is more to the LORDSHIP of Christ than the carnal mind can comprehend.
Jesus was not merely a glorious being like Lucifer, He was and is and is to come the only Begotten Son of God. He is God the Son. Before he manifest in the flesh as Jesus he was with God and fully God (Philippians 2:5-11) All things were created by Him (John 1:3) including the angels and Lucifer who are also created beings. Jesus is not merely a brother of Lucifer.
Again, the RSV is wrong here. And we have since the RSV was translated have a corroborating witness to testify as to how wrong and biased the RSV translators were because since then we have had the discovery of the dead sea scrolls. They confirm the KJV translators on this verse. Here is the link:
Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls - Zechariah 12 (dssenglishbible.com)
Zechariah 12 from Scroll 4Q80 Minor Prophetse
7 Yahweh also will save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of David’s house and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem not be magnified above Judah. 8 In that day Yahweh will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem. He who is feeble among them at that day will be like David, and David’s house will be like God, like Yahweh’s angel before them. 9 It will happen in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 I will pour on David’s house, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they will look to me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn. 11 In that day there will be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 The land will mourn, every family apart; the family of David’s house apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
Conclusion:
It is the Holy Ghost who reveals to us the Deity of Christ, that is why this is a test of the Spirits for who is and who is not a true believer in Jesus Christ. This is not a semantic argument or one of who's text is the right text, but a Spiritual discernment all who are sealed with the Holy Ghost are given. If you do not have the Holy Spirit confirming this, you have not been sealed by the Spirit as this is the very essence of the sealing. Which in turn means you do not have the Son.... In other words, you are believing in a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Word of God.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. (1 John 5:12)
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Ignorant of the facts? How about this:
"The Hebrew name יהושע (yehoshu'a, Strong's #3091) is the combination of יהו (yeho), a short form of the name יהוה (YHWH, Strong's #3068), and the verb ישע (Y.Sh.Ah, Strong's #3467), which means "to save." The name יהושע (yehoshu'a, Strong's #3091) means "YHWH saves." Jeff Brenner
When you make it to the Pearly Gates and the angels welcome you and ask if you had any special requests before your meeting with Jesus and your welcome tour of heaven, I wouldn't be surprised if you asked to see Jehovah. Don't be surprised if they say, "I'm sorry, there is no one here by that name ... The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are here though! Before you meet Jesus and Michael too, we would like you to have this very special gift to wear around your neck for all eternity, a cross - to remind you! And you will have things to do up here! Everyone has unique and special talents and you will be able to perfect yours and share it with everyone - in addition to worshipping God!
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You know this has been thoroughly answered already regarding agency. The prophets Isaiah and Jesus said these words before Revelation and God said it in Revelation. Prophets speak the words of God. It does not make them God.
If you read Rev 1:1, you will find the resurrected Jesus, having already been given all authority in heaven and Earth, is STILL not God bur rather was given a revelation by God - in his unitarian nature.
1 This is what God showed to Jesus Christ, so that he could tell his servants what must happen soon.
Revelation 1:1
Contemporary English Version
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