Jesus and Commands

[Episkopos]

Luke 7
2 Now a centurion had a servant who was sick and at the point of death, who was highly valued by him. 3 When the centurion heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4 And when they came to Jesus, they pleaded with him earnestly, saying, “He is worthy to have you do this for him, 5 for he loves our nation, and he is the one who built us our synagogue.”

or Acts 10

God, in His mercy remembered this righteous Gentile...and even sent Peter to preach the gospel to him personally.

God visits the righteous and calls the sinners to repent.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Cornelius...in Acts 10:22 ...a just man (righteous) who gave to the synagogue.

Huh?

22 And they said, “Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you.”

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Luke 7
2 Now a centurion had a servant who was sick and at the point of death, who was highly valued by him. 3 When the centurion heard about Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his servant. 4 And when they came to Jesus, they pleaded with him earnestly, saying, “He is worthy to have you do this for him, 5 for he loves our nation, and he is the one who built us our synagogue.”

or Acts 10

I thought that meant he oversaw the building of it.

 

[BobRyan]

he is the one who built us our synagogue.

I thought that meant he oversaw the building of it.

really???

 

[1stCenturyLady]

he is the one who built us our synagogue.



really???

It's not important. Not like the posts you don't answer...

 

[Episkopos]

In those days a centurion earned 15 times more than a basic legionary. What's a man to do with all that cash?

 

[quietthinker]

This is in bible study because answers should be biblically based and I'd like to avoid personal comments since they add nothing to a discussion.

I hear many say that Jesus has come to abolish the law because we are no longer under the law. This comes from
Mathew 5:17

It seems to me that Jesus plainly states that He did NOT come to abolish the law.

So, the law is a set of commands that God has given us.
Did Jesus give us any commands that we are to follow?
If so, what are they?
If not, why not.

John 14:15 says:
"If you love Me, you will keep my commandments". (NASB)

WHAT COMMANDMENTS??

It's unambiguous GG. It only becomes problematic when one wants to justify sin.

 

[amadeus]

Oh no...you are so right.

If old Jim had just died then his profile would still be there ....but as you say...his profile page has gone. Which is what happens when people are suspended or banned.

He is almost 90 ....so I hope that he did not get banned.
He has always been a bit contentious and argumentative....but not 'ban-worthy' That's sad.

Could he have quit? As you say he has been around for a long time. I have wrangled a bit with him on a half dozen or more forums prior to this one over the years. Hopefully, he is OK.
Let's pray for him.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is in bible study because answers should be biblically based and I'd like to avoid personal comments since they add nothing to a discussion.

I hear many say that Jesus has come to abolish the law because we are no longer under the law. This comes from
Mathew 5:17

It seems to me that Jesus plainly states that He did NOT come to abolish the law.

So, the law is a set of commands that God has given us.
Did Jesus give us any commands that we are to follow?
If so, what are they?
If not, why not.

John 14:15 says:
"If you love Me, you will keep my commandments". (NASB)

WHAT COMMANDMENTS??

What did Jesus preach?

Read 1 John 3 carefully.

As for "what commandments"?

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And THIS is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Like the old commandments for the flesh, these are of the Spirit. They are also in two categories - to God and to man. Notice that believing on Jesus covers the old Sabbath commandment.

old commandments 1-4 "Believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ"
old commandments 6-10 "love your neighbor as yourself"

Too short? Too easy? Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Not hundreds of commandments - just follow Christ's Spirit He gives us as a free gift of empowerment to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law.

You said, "It seems to me that Jesus plainly states that He did NOT come to abolish the law." Right, not the righteous requirements of the law. He came to abolish SIN. But to do that we can't keep the law with our old flesh, so he makes us born again of the Spirit.

Romans 8:
So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death (the Ten Commandments). 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned SIN in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit....

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

cc: @BobRyan @quietthinker

 

[GodsGrace]

The are called the laws of liberty in Scripture. Liberty from SIN. John 8:34-36. And how is that? The Holy Spirit.

Romans 8 describes it best. (Remember the Ten Commandments are the laws of sin and death. They are also called the ministry of (sin and ) death.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

When words such as Law of Liberty are mentioned, scripture should be provided.
James 1:25
25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:12
12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Both versus in James speak to how we are to be hearers of the word and doers of the word. If we're doers of the word, then we are following the commandments of Jesus; which include all the commandments.

Romans 8 states that we are set free from the law of sin and death...that is the old way of following the law, without the help of the Holy Spirit...we're not saved BECAUSE of our works but are saved and then works follow. All this says is that works do not save...not that the law is not good.

Romans 7:12
12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

We are told to not walk by flesh, but by the Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

I agree -- you do hear that a lot. But how many of those folks would dare to go on to say "so go ahead and take God's name in vain... we don't need to worry about that restriction or the penalty for being in rebellion on that point"... ?

Some have dared to go on BR. This is very disturbing to me.
I feel that God is Almighty and we cannot change His nature and we cannot change His rules. And His rule is that we are to love Him and obey Him. Some make is SOUND like obedience is not necessary, and some come right out and state this.
I'm on another forum where this is said many times...I think you're on there too.

You see how I'm scolded. WHY am I scolded for saying that we are to obey God?
I'm told this is "works"....which it isn't, and, anyway, what's wrong with works as long as they're done AFTER salvation. (works do not save).

And in Romans 8:4-8 the Law of God is "fulfilled" in us - who walk according to the Spirit.
In Romans 13 we are to "fulfill the Law" by loving our neighbor as ourself .

Why are "we" doing any "fulfill" at all - if the whole point is that we NOT fulfill it?

(I am preaching to the choir)

Amen! If Jesus "fulfilled" everything, why are we asked to fulfill anything?
Great point.

In any case I think we all agree that Christ never sinned - thus all agree He perfectly fulfilled the requirement that the Law demands. Like a person always going the speed limit and never violating it. He would be perfectly fulfilling the requirement - but that does not mean that the rest of us can drive like "speed demons" ... as they say.

Right. Which is why it took God to forgive us our sins and make an eternal covenant...because only God cannot sin.
Good analogy.

Certainly it is true that through the Gospel we receive power to obey --whereas in our former lost state we were enslaved to sin.
Romans 8:4-12 says that the lost "do not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they". Some Christians get so mixed up on this topic that they claim that "lost condition" that Paul describes in Romans 8 -- for themselves as if it were a badge of honor instead of a call to accept the Gospel.

Sure. Just like we're told that we're to walk in the spirit.
Yes. But Romans says to NOT walk in the FLESH, but to walk in the spirit.
We like to forget about the flesh part...

Romans 8:12-14
12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

I find nowhere in the N.T. that states we are not to follow the law.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

When words such as Law of Liberty are mentioned, scripture should be provided.
James 1:25
25But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:12
12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Both versus in James speak to how we are to be hearers of the word and doers of the word. If we're doers of the word, then we are following the commandments of Jesus; which include all the commandments.

Romans 8 states that we are set free from the law of sin and death...that is the old way of following the law, without the help of the Holy Spirit...we're not saved BECAUSE of our works but are saved and then works follow. All this says is that works do not save...not that the law is not good.

Romans 7:12
12So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.

We are told to not walk by flesh, but by the Spirit.

I agree, but don't know if you are agreeing with me or trying to argue. BTW, if we refer to the Ten Commandments, do you require the Scripture text? Why do you need a text for the Law of Liberty? Don't you know our New Testament Law? The law of liberty is liberty from being slaves to sin by the empowering of the Holy Spirit. John 8:34-36 - happy?

If we are being led by the Holy Spirit, do you still need the letter of the law? 1 John 3:21 "Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God." The Spirit works through our conscience which he has super-sensitized.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Some have dared to go on BR. This is very disturbing to me.
I feel that God is Almighty and we cannot change His nature and we cannot change His rules. And His rule is that we are to love Him and obey Him. Some make is SOUND like obedience is not necessary, and some come right out and state this.
I'm on another forum where this is said many times...I think you're on there too.

You see how I'm scolded. WHY am I scolded for saying that we are to obey God?
I'm told this is "works"....which it isn't, and, anyway, what's wrong with works as long as they're done AFTER salvation. (works do not save).


Amen! If Jesus "fulfilled" everything, why are we asked to fulfill anything?
Great point.


Right. Which is why it took God to forgive us our sins and make an eternal covenant...because only God cannot sin.
Good analogy.


Sure. Just like we're told that we're to walk in the spirit.
Yes. But Romans says to NOT walk in the FLESH, but to walk in the spirit.
We like to forget about the flesh part...

Romans 8:12-14
12So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—
13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

I find nowhere in the N.T. that states we are not to follow the law.

The Jews did that, and where did it get them? You and Bob don't understand WHY we are given the Spirit. It is idiotic to say that not being under the law means we can break it. NO! We are given another way to KEEP the righteous requirements of the law. The Spirit. But not by the old method of the LETTER of the law, but by the SPIRIT.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's unambiguous GG. It only becomes problematic when one wants to justify sin.

Amen to that!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Some are being very obtuse. The gospel is not this hard to understand as some would make it out to be by going backwards to preaching needing to be under the old laws..

 

[Nancy]

Yes...to the first. Actually we also have our own righteousness. We don't receive OUR righteousness from Jesus. We receive HIS righteousness by abiding in Him. It is like going inside a tank. By ourselves bullets kill us. But in the tank...I take on the bulletproof nature of the tank. So as long as I am in the tank (army tank) I am bulletproof.

So then as long as I (or anyone) abide INSIDE Christ I am the righteousness (the light) of God in this world. The enemy's defenses are vulnerable to a tank attack!

I like the tank analogy.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes...to the first. Actually we also have our own righteousness. We don't receive OUR righteousness from Jesus. We receive HIS righteousness by abiding in Him. It is like going inside a tank. By ourselves bullets kill us. But in the tank...I take on the bulletproof nature of the tank. So as long as I am in the tank (army tank) I am bulletproof.

So then as long as I (or anyone) abide INSIDE Christ I am the righteousness (the light) of God in this world. The enemy's defenses are vulnerable to a tank attack!

But that doesn't mean that we are still full of sin and unrighteousness inside the tank as some believe who think the blood of Jesus merely covers our sin, not takes it away entirely. I don't think you mean that.

1 John 3:8-9 He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Our righteousness before Christ is as filthy rags, but not when we have been born of the Spirit. Then we are actually righteous when we practice righteousness.

 

[GodsGrace]

What did Jesus preach?

Read 1 John 3 carefully.

As for "what commandments"?

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And THIS is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Like the old commandments for the flesh, these are of the Spirit. They are also in two categories - to God and to man. Notice that believing on Jesus covers the old Sabbath commandment.

old commandments 1-4 "Believe on the name of His Son, Jesus Christ"
old commandments 6-10 "love your neighbor as yourself"

Too short? Too easy? Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Not hundreds of commandments - just follow Christ's Spirit He gives us as a free gift of empowerment to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law.

You said, "It seems to me that Jesus plainly states that He did NOT come to abolish the law." Right, not the righteous requirements of the law. He came to abolish SIN. But to do that we can't keep the law with our old flesh, so he makes us born again of the Spirit.

Romans 8:
So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death (the Ten Commandments). 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned SIN in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit....

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

cc: @BobRyan @quietthinker

1 John...verse 23 says that we are to keep Jesus' commandment to love our neighbor.

Verse 24 says that we are to keep Jesus' commandments?
So which one is it? Is it ONE commandment or is it MORE?

And what are you stating...that we no longer sin?

And WHO is making this difficult? You or me?

I say we have to obey God and you answer with pages of verses and comments.
All I say is:
We still must obey the law...the method by which it's obeyed is different.
We must obey God....He has ALWAYS demanded obedience.

So it comes down to a simple question and answer....
Are we required to obey God or not?
I say yes.

Can't be easier than that.

 

[GodsGrace]

But that doesn't mean that we are still full of sin and unrighteousness inside the tank as some believe who think the blood of Jesus merely covers our sin, not takes it away entirely. I don't think you mean that.

1 John 3:8-9 He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Our righteousness before Christ is as filthy rags, but not when we have been born of the Spirit. Then we are actually righteous when we practice righteousness.

The blood removes sin when we ask for forgiveness.
What does practicing righteousness mean?
What does righteous mean?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John...verse 23 says that we are to keep Jesus' commandment to love our neighbor.

Verse 24 says that we are to keep Jesus' commandments?
So which one is it? Is it ONE commandment or is it MORE?

And what are you stating...that we no longer sin?

And WHO is making this difficult? You or me?

I say we have to obey God and you answer with pages of verses and comments.
All I say is:
We still must obey the law...the method by which it's obeyed is different.
We must obey God....He has ALWAYS demanded obedience.

So it comes down to a simple question and answer....
Are we required to obey God or not?
I say yes.

Can't be easier than that.

This is circular. If we have to keep the old law, we have to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. But if we believe in Jesus, we keep the Spirit of the Sabbath - trust in Him.

If you want to be under the law, you don't need the Holy Spirit, but you've fallen from grace.

So which will it be?