Jesus and Commands

[BobRyan]

um, the horse's mouth here, pretty much

"Close on the heels of the Edict of Constantine followed the Catholic Church Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD):

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord’s Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ."

Yep -- long live saint "constantine" over the Bible.

And least for "some" that is the apparent rule. :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

well hopefully i have not made any assertions of truth here lol

One man thinks one day is more holy than others. Another man thinks every day is holy. Each should be fully convinced in their own mind. This is what the apostle said concerning the matter. Does he sound like he was chastising either man or does he sound like he was telling them of their freedom from bondage and the following of their consciences in the matter?

 

[BobRyan]

God said "the seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10
"Therefore the LORD (YHWH) blessed the Sabbath day and made IT holy" Ex 20:11.
Gen 2:3 " Then God blessed the seventh day and make it holy"

And yet there are many other Sabbaths - annual Sabbaths of Lev 23. Annual feast day Sabbaths.

Of them Romans 14 says "one man observes one day above another and another man observes them all"

One man thinks one day is more holy than others. Another man thinks every day is holy.

Quoting "you".

To keep a day holy in the bible is to refrain from work on that day and dedicate it as a day of worship. Paul says of the idea that every day is a non-working day "if a man will not work..neither let him eat".

In Gal 4-- Paul condemns any Christian that dares to treat one of the pagan days "as holy".
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

Bible details matter.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are so confused brother. You don't have any of the spirit of the words. This was what Jesus said to men who studied the scriptures from a young age and devoted their entire lifes work to scripture: your mistake is that you don't know God and you don't know scripture.

How could Jesus say to men who had studied the scriptures all of their lives that they didn't know scripture? They could probably recite it all verbatim, on the spot, so how could He say that to them? Is it because something was hidden from them that they couldn't see, even though they claimed they COULD see and could lead others to God?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yep -- long live saint "constantine" over the Bible.

And least for "some" that is the apparent rule. :)

i notice Constantine's body count is no longer easily googlable too, that's weird

 

[stunnedbygrace]

googlable…?
You makin up words? LOL.
Just teasing.

 

[bbyrd009]

One man thinks one day is more holy than others. Another man thinks every day is holy. Each should be fully convinced in their own mind. This is what the apostle said concerning the matter. Does he sound like he was chastising either man or does he sound like he was telling them of their freedom from bondage and the following of their consciences in the matter?

hey, this all started with 1stC lecturing us about Sunday Sabbath, i made no assertions; ah, this one

This is why those with Christ keep as His Day, Sunday. And why His Church started on Sunday also - the true Sabbath of God's rest.

The truth is, if Sunday or first day observance was taught in scripture, revealed a doctrine by either Jesus our the apostles, practiced by the first century church, then those who oppose Sabbath keeping would cite the very verses that reveal such, and their case would be settled. But they don't, and they can't. So they resort to philosophy, a expressed above by the concept of"Jesus being our Sabbath test", a concept nowhere to be found in scripture.

gets pretty foggy pretty quick, huh.

but as we can see even Commandments can be countermanded if enough ppl die i guess

 

[stunnedbygrace]

hey, this all started with 1stC telling me Sunday was Sabbath, i made no assertions

gets pretty foggy pretty quick, huh

Yeah, like pea soup fog! :)

But you did make an assertion of sorts...you said okay, go ahead and break all the laws you want to. I took you to be saying that if you don't go to church on a certain day or set aside a certain day, that you are breaking Gods law. I may have misunderstood what you were saying though.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Ah, I see that quote of hers you posted. But it seems to go against all else that she has said...

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah, like pea soup fog! :)

But you did make an assertion of sorts...you said okay, go ahead and break all the laws you want to. I took you to be saying that if you don't go to church on a certain day or set aside a certain day, that you are breaking Gods law. I may have misunderstood what you were saying though.

we interpret these as "days of worship" now, but i don't think they even had distinct days of worship then, or even defined worship like we do. Saturday is a day of rest, was never a day of worship that i am aware of

 

[stunnedbygrace]

we interpret these as "days of worship" now, but i don't think they even had distinct days of worship then, or even defined worship like we do. Saturday is supposed to be a day of rest, was never a day of worship that i am aware of

Yeah, I dunno. I just know that the day is now here when it doesn't matter where I worship God. He is IN me. I break out in spontaneous worship anytime He caresses me. It's usually when I'm not even thinking of Him at all, like I'm taking out the trash or sitting in the dentists chair. And I know that each man should be convinced in his own mind, whether he views one day as more holy or all days alike as holy to God. :)

I do know that I can get busy with the cares of this life and forget to drink until I'm a dehydrated mess....not good.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

best of luck ok.

ah, keeping the law is against grace now, ok
sounds familiar enough i guess
i notice that applies to me keeping Sabbath, presumably
but not those who keep Sunday, right

Keeping days is, yes.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

12For he regularly ate with the Gentiles before certain men came from James. However, when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, because he feared those from the circumcision party.

i doubt it personally,
and besides i never said that observing the Sabbath would justify anyone anyway
break all the laws that you want i guess, ok with me

Okay with you? That's love? No, I don't break God's eternal laws, and in doing so takes are of the 10C and more.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1. I prefer the actual Bible.
2. Acts 20 -- details matter.

29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

No wonder some folks prefer to set the Bible aside and stick with a few names that came along long after Paul -- and who promoted false doctrines

Are you astute enough to know what those wolves actully taught? Or are you just going to pick something out of the air. Not only Judaizers trying to bring the Gentiles back under bondage of circumcision, days like the Sabbath and months and what they can and cannot eat, but Gnostics who turned the grace of God into licentiousness, much like the Reformationists did.

Question to you. Does the SDA church, and you, teach that speaking in tongues practiced today is still of the devil? I remember that's what I was taught, and a lot of other errors against the Spirit. My mothers last SDA preacher believed he spoke in tongues because he knew both Portuguese and English. Not a subject he knew much about it seems.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Your "quote of you" noted.

I prefer the Bible.

To each his own.

No, history, both from scripture and early Christians.

 

[Enoch111]

Saturday is a day of rest, was never a day of worship that i am aware of...

The sabbath was both a day of rest and a day of worship. We see this in Scripture and also in the history of synagogues.

And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Lk 4:15,16)

"A synagogue, also spelled synagog (pronounced/ˈsɪnəɡɒɡ/; from Greek συναγωγή, synagogē, 'assembly', Hebrew: בית כנסת‬ bet kenesset, 'house of assembly' or בית תפילה‬ bet tefila, "house of prayer",Yiddish: שול shul, Ladino: אסנוגה esnoga or קהל kahal), is a Jewish or Samaritan house of worship."

For Christians, the Lord's Day is a day of worship and a day of rest.

 

[BobRyan]

God said "the seventh day the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10
"Therefore the LORD (YHWH) blessed the Sabbath day and made IT holy" Ex 20:11.
Gen 2:3 " Then God blessed the seventh day and make it holy"

And yet there are many other Sabbaths - annual Sabbaths of Lev 23. Annual feast day Sabbaths.

Of them Romans 14 says "one man observes one day above another and another man observes them all"

One man thinks one day is more holy than others. Another man thinks every day is holy.

Quoting "you".

To keep a day holy in the bible is to refrain from work on that day and dedicate it as a day of worship. Paul says of the idea that every day is a non-working day "if a man will not work..neither let him eat".

In Gal 4-- Paul condemns any Christian that dares to treat one of the pagan days "as holy".
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. 9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? 10 You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

Bible details matter.

You are so confused brother. You don't have any of the spirit of the words.

Your response is in the form "ad hominem" ... have you considered a Bible solution "instead"??

I can debate atheists and get "ad hominem" as their only "solution" all day long.

Christians can do better.

 

[BobRyan]

The sabbath was both a day of rest and a day of worship.

That is true. Exodus 20:8-11 shows it to be a day of rest
Lev 23:3 shows it to be a day of "holy convocation"
Isaiah 66:23 a day when "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind shall come before Me to bow down and worship"

We see this in Scripture and also in the history of synagogues.

And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Lk 4:15,16)

That is true - as we see in Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" believing Jews and Gentiles gathered in the synagogue to hear gospel preaching.

For Christians, the Lord's Day is a day of worship and a day of rest.

That is true. And the Lord's Day has always been "The Holy Day of the LORD" Isaiah 58:13 - the Sabbath
"The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

No such statements for week-day-1

 

[BobRyan]

Are you astute enough to know what those wolves actully taught?

In Act 20 Paul does not list all the false teachings that would follow all throughout history - but HE DOES tell us in Col 2 and other places that was basically in the form of "creative writing" , it would be in the form of 'making stuff up' via the "traditions of man" the "Commandments of men". -- NOT the "Word of God"

Question to you. Does the SDA church, and you, teach that speaking in tongues practiced today is still of the devil? I remember that's what I was taught,

1 Corinthians 14 and Acts 2 make it clear that what passes for "Speaking in tongues" today -- is not of God at all. Would you like to have a thread on that topic??

 

[Phoneman777]

"Jesus healed on the Sabbath but He didn't saw table legs on it. " - So, where do you draw the line?? Seems to me there were a slew of things one could, or could not do on a Sabbath day. Do you follow that list?

I was in the Navy during Desert Shield and Desert Storm - gone for 7-8 months straight. When I got home, my wife didn't have a tough time figuring out how to spend time with me. She let the dishes go, the laundry go, the car washing, etc. That's what the Sabbath is all about. Spending time with the one you love....or not, as in the case of most people who call themselves "Christian".

"I was making $10,000/month at Bellsouth in 2006 and lost my job for refusing to work on the Sabbath."
How righteously commendable of you, you now have your reward.

It's called a testimony. Get one. With Christians like you who are only in the business of giving God lip service, the rest of us have to bear the burden of encouraging others who are fighting the good fight of faith against the devil and his temptations to take the "easy" way out of a trial.

"...the "Eucharist" wafer as the actual body of Christ" You guys still think that, huh. SMH.

Well, that's what the papacy demanded many millions of "heretics" acknowledge about that wafer...those who refused left THEIR testimony written in blood.

NOBODY knows for sure if we will or will not be here for some awful stuff. Seems we have been warned over and over in The Word to be built up in the faith.

The only people who question whether the church will go through the trib are those who think the lie of "Jesuit (Left Behind) Futurism" could be true.

You choose Law. I choose the only chance we really have-Grace. And boy does that come with some awesome FREEDOM! Amen! "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" Galatians 5:1

You choose "cheap grace" aka "sloppy agape". I choose to "do and teach them (The Ten Commandments)" and be called "great" by the hosts of heaven, while you choose to break them and teach others to break them, and we know when heavenly beings look down on those who do that, they shake their heads and call them "the least". (Matthew 5:19)