Jesus and Commands

[Phoneman777]

I have said over and over there are ETERNAL LAWS OF GOD. The Ten Commandments were fashioned like them. It is like the difference between man and God. We are fashioned in the likeness of God, but are not God. Man has a carnal nature and cannot be like God no matter how many rules we have. God has a perfect holy nature. The only way man can be more like God is if God came into Him. That is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and why we are not under the law of our carnal nature if we walk after the Spirit.

You're saying a lot but you're telling me nothing.

ARE WE AT LIBERTY TO DISREGARD OR OBLIGATED TO OBEY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus came because of a covenant that predates the Covenants that God entered into with Israel at Mt Sinai. The first covenant that God entered into at Mt. Sinai, the Israelites rebelled against within 40 days while Moses was up on the mountain speaking face to face with God. The second covenant that God entered into with Israel at Mt. Sinai is referred to as the Mosaic Covenant, which had a sunset clause associated with it which ended at the beginning of the Age that Christ was born into.

God in Jer. 31:31-34 speaks of making like new again the first covenant that He made with the Israelites at Mt. Sinai which they had rebelled against, but with a few subtle changes where the "law" will not be written on stone but rather in their hearts. This covenant is best referred to as the Kingdom of Priests and a Holy Nations and His possession of people among the nations Covenant, and not the Old Covenant as is mistakenly assumed. During the First advent, Israel was still, at their convenience, adhering to the terms of the Mosaic Covenant. So the label of Old and new Covenants does not really apply.

This is what jesus suggested He was doing: -

Matthew_13:52: - 52 Then He said to them, "Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things refurbished like new again and yet old from the time of Adam and Eve."

If you want to refer to the Old Covenant, then you probably should be referring the covenant that Jesus was referring to here in this verse in an oblique manner and not to the Mosaic Covenant that was if force during Jesus' first advent..

Shalom

The only problem with your theory is that Paul said the Old Covenant, which was ratified by the blood of sacrifices, continued to be in effect until it had "waxed old and was ready to vanish away" and ceased to be of any did vanish away when Jesus ratified the New Covenant with His own blood.

 

[Nancy]

I was in the Navy during Desert Shield and Desert Storm - gone for 7-8 months straight. When I got home, my wife didn't have a tough time figuring out how to spend time with me. She let the dishes go, the laundry go, the car washing, etc. That's what the Sabbath is all about. Spending time with the one you love....or not, as in the case of most people who call themselves "Christian".
It's called a testimony. Get one. With Christians like you who are only in the business of giving God lip service, the rest of us have to bear the burden of encouraging others who are fighting the good fight of faith against the devil and his temptations to take the "easy" way out of a trial.
Well, that's what the papacy demanded many millions of "heretics" acknowledge about that wafer...those who refused left THEIR testimony written in blood.
The only people who question whether the church will go through the trib are those who think the lie of "Jesuit (Left Behind) Futurism" could be true.
You choose "cheap grace" aka "sloppy agape". I choose to "do and teach them (The Ten Commandments)" and be called "great" by the hosts of heaven, while you choose to break them and teach others to break them, and we know when heavenly beings look down on those who do that, they shake their heads and call them "the least". (Matthew 5:19)

Wow. I guess you just have it all down pat. You even seem to know the mind of God, I am sorry that you feel you have to be so presumptuous to prove yourself right and everybody else wrong. So, you know my heart? "Encouraging" one another is now a burden?? "Cheap grace", Whaaaa? "Cheap grace" is something you should be on your FACE thanking Him for everyday! And, it was anything BUT cheap! "Sloppy Agape"?? Okay, so, now God's sacrificial love is "sloppy". I do not imagine it is anything you yourself have ever walked in, as per your tone. Check out my signature.
You keep pounding your chest there Mr. Phoneyman, and let the "knowledge" that YOU will be "Great in the Kingdom of God" and I will be "called the least" Such judgement.
I am so over modern day pharisees. I will pray that God send someone to help you down from that pedestal you have perched yourself upon before you fall down and hurt yourself.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This thread has brought me to tears. It's very bad how you speak with each other.

 

[Nancy]

This thread has brought me to tears. It's very bad how you speak with each other.

I am sorry Stunned. The above is not my usual MO. I generally never respond in kind but...I felt attacked and just knee jerked. I will remove my post if it offends you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Your above post has encouraged me nancy. Walk in the Spirit sister.

 

[Nancy]

Your above post has encouraged me nancy. Walk in the Spirit sister.

♥

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You're saying a lot but you're telling me nothing.

ARE WE AT LIBERTY TO DISREGARD OR OBLIGATED TO OBEY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS?

Paul has shown over an over that love fulfills the commandments, but MUCH MORE. That "much more" is what brings us to perfection. The Ten Commandments dealt with the bottom line only. For instance. murder. It takes a lot of hate before you stoop so low as to murder. But hate is not against the Ten Commandments, but it IS against Christ's law of liberty. You think the 10 C are the ultimate in commandments, but they don't make one have the righteousness of God which is a much higher standard and what we must attain to to have salvation and what the Law of Liberty does. The 10C are easy by comparison, and can be kept by school children, and are automatically covered and more so through love. This is why Paul said, "we establish the law." Not just the bottom line, but everything in between. Only through Jesus and His gift of the Holy Spirit can we hope to be holy, as He is holy. Any unbeliever can stop themselves from murder. But only God can make someone not hate.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

In Act 20 Paul does not list all the false teachings that would follow all throughout history - but HE DOES tell us in Col 2 and other places that was basically in the form of "creative writing" , it would be in the form of 'making stuff up' via the "traditions of man" the "Commandments of men". -- NOT the "Word of God"

I didn't think you knew.

1 Corinthians 14 and Acts 2 make it clear that what passes for "Speaking in tongues" today -- is not of God at all. Would you like to have a thread on that topic??

Been there, done that. I've not only written posts on tongues, I've published a book. But thanks for letting me know your beliefs are as they've always been. Backwoods.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
In Act 20 Paul does not list all the false teachings that would follow all throughout history - but HE DOES tell us in Col 2 and other places that was basically in the form of "creative writing" , it would be in the form of 'making stuff up' via the "traditions of man" the "Commandments of men". -- NOT the "Word of God"

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

I didn't think you knew.

Well as we see ... I did know.

(that was easy)

 

[BobRyan]

I was in the Navy during Desert Shield and Desert Storm - gone for 7-8 months straight. When I got home, my wife didn't have a tough time figuring out how to spend time with me. She let the dishes go, the laundry go, the car washing, etc. That's what the Sabbath is all about.

Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Question to you. Does the SDA church, and you, teach that speaking in tongues practiced today is still of the devil? I remember that's what I was taught,

1 Corinthians 14 and Acts 2 make it clear that what passes for "Speaking in tongues" today -- is not of God at all. Would you like to have a thread on that topic??

Been there, done that. I've not only written posts on tongues, I've published a book. But thanks for letting me know your beliefs are as they've always been. Backwoods.

Backwoods? is that the name of the book?? You may need to start a thread on that topic.

As I said I have a lot of respect for your creative writing skills as seen here - but I prefer the Bible.
You have free will.
To each his own.

 

[bbyrd009]

Not only Judaizers trying to bring the Gentiles back under bondage of circumcision

lol, your hubby and every male member of your household, every son, are all circumcised.
all of your brothers are circumcised
so no offense, but, ok

sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come

 

[BobRyan]

All annual festivals - all annual Sabbaths were given based on animal sacrifice and offering.
Heb 10:4-12 "he takes away the first to establish the second" when it comes to "sacrifice and offering" of the OT.
1 Cor 5 "Christ our PASSOVER has been slain"

Animal sacrifices were a "shadow" of the sacrifice of Christ right from the point they were given.
By contrast the weekly Sabbath had no animal sacrifice and pointed to no animal sacrifice when given in Genesis 2:1-3, Exodus 20:11 points to that origin for it.

This is why all major Christian denominations endorse the Bible teaching that the 4th commandment Sabbath is part of the moral law of God written on the heart and mind - under the NEW Covenant.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

BobRyan said: ↑
In Act 20 Paul does not list all the false teachings that would follow all throughout history - but HE DOES tell us in Col 2 and other places that was basically in the form of "creative writing" , it would be in the form of 'making stuff up' via the "traditions of man" the "Commandments of men". -- NOT the "Word of God"

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?



Well as we see ... I did know.

(that was easy)

Try Galatians and Romans. Your interpretation of Colossians 2 is the opposite of what the author meant.

 

[Nancy]

Paul has shown over an over that love fulfills the commandments, but MUCH MORE. That "much more" is what brings us to perfection. The Ten Commandments dealt with the bottom line only. For instance. murder. It takes a lot of hate before you stoop so low as to murder. But hate is not against the Ten Commandments, but it IS against Christ's law of liberty. You think the 10 C are the ultimate in commandments, but they don't make one have the righteousness of God which is a much higher standard and what we must attain to to have salvation and what the Law of Liberty does. The 10C are easy by comparison, and can be kept by school children, and are automatically covered and more so through love. This is why Paul said, "we establish the law." Not just the bottom line, but everything in between. Only through Jesus and His gift of the Holy Spirit can we hope to be holy, as He is holy. Any unbeliever can stop themselves from murder. But only God can make someone not hate.

Indeed...Jesus raised the bar on the 10.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come

Then what does the weekly Sabbath foreshadow that has the substance of Jesus? You probably think it only looks backwards to creation don't you? No, it also looks forward - to what? Do you know? Hint: Hebrews 4.

cc: @BobRyan

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed...Jesus raised the bar on the 10.

meaning that the Decalogue is the minimum standard, not that it should be ignored or negated

 

[bbyrd009]

Then what does the weekly Sabbath foreshadow that has the substance of Jesus? You probably think it only looks backwards to creation don't you? No, it also looks forward - to what? Do you know? Hint: Hebrews 4.

cc: @BobRyan

yes, ty, i understand the justification, and i also see the fruit of the practice, and i'm not interested in condemning you or your literally circumcised males for adhering to laws that are not in the Decalogue, nor for breaking the laws that are, ok. i'm circumcised too, see

 

[1stCenturyLady]

meaning that the Decalogue is the minimum standard, not that it should be ignored or negated

Does God require the minimum? Only to schoolchildren. And it was only temporary UNTIL Christ. Why?

Galatians 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

You are only seeing the 10C as Law, but not as Covenant. It was under the OLD Covenant. We are under the NEW Covenant which is not the same as the old in that it has higher standards, and the true meaning of the Sabbath is revealed. Not kept in the old way of the letter - just on the 7th day, but the full meaning of God's rest. What is that called?