Jesus Coming in The Clouds.

[quietthinker]

The difference is that what is of this world and what is seen is only made manifest for the revelation of Him who makes manifest who is unseen.

In other words, we who are created in the image of God see according to images rather than what actually is--because we have only considered all things according to all that we know, all of which was first "of this world" and not of the kingdom. But when the angel said Jesus shall return "in like manner"--what likeness is to be revealed? I submit, it is not the likeness of this world that the angel referred to, but rather the same manner and likeness which made us and Him manifest, which is rather the likeness of the kingdom and of God who for these times has otherwise been unseen to us.

So then, which is actually true, that the "like manner" that Jesus will return is lowly according to this world again in the likeness of a man, or glorious according to God who is "finished" with His lowliness having overcome this world? And why should our perspective remain lowly when we have been raised up with Him who overcame those lowly things of this world? We should not.

I don't find the explanation the angels gave to the disciples at Jesus' ascension as complex as you have described.

Acts 1:10-11 '.....this same Jesus who was taken up with you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw him go into heaven'

 

[GISMYS_7]

No good reason to doubt the plain meaning of God'Word as satan does!!!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

This is what has been taught and what most believe, and what most expect to see of Jesus' second coming, as "coming in the clouds":

View attachment 31932​

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But this is what is actually written (Jesus speaking):

"Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20-21​

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What most have missed in the "coming in the clouds" passage...is that it does not say "clouds" as in the sky-- but specifically, "in the clouds of heaven."

Coming in the clouds means, Coming in his majesty !

So he is coming in his Majesty !

For indeed, the Kingdom of God is within you ?
Now this means they who know the Kingdom of God, who have that ability to see him in his Majesty in fact.
So every eye means, your minds eye to comprehend such is so.

 

[Helen]

Heaven has been described as "above", and that does indeed work for the first and second heaven which are physically above the earth.

However, the kingdom of heaven is not [actually] physically "above", but as it is written (Jesus speaking) is "within." This is the distinction and the purpose for me starting this thread. Thank you!

I submit therefore, that every scripture referring to Jesus' and our entering "heaven", as well as heaven itself--is NOT celestrial or terrestrial. In which case, there are also metaphorical examples in the scriptures, none of which actually mean in or of this earth or universe.

excellent , amen….agree ….

 

[GISMYS_7]

LOL!!! Satan's same old deception=== did God really say????

 

[ScottA]

I don't find the explanation the angels gave to the disciples at Jesus' ascension as complex as you have described.

Acts 1:10-11 '.....this same Jesus who was taken up with you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw him go into heaven'

If it did not take getting out of one's self to understand the reality of what was said in Acts 1:10-11, I could very well have said it much simpler.

The point is...the context is as great as angels talking from heaven across the void to men, saying what could be looked at from the worldly perspective or the heavenly, which difference is as difference as heaven and earth, and just as wrong if not considered according to what they actually saw being manifest for their witness and telling. Thus, if one does not have a mind to grasp that shaft of revealing light...they simply miss it. Perhaps the next generation then--that is, if there is a next generation.

"Rise, let us be going!"

 

[ScottA]

Coming in the clouds means, Coming in his majesty !

So he is coming in his Majesty !

For indeed, the Kingdom of God is within you ?
Now this means they who know the Kingdom of God, who have that ability to see him in his Majesty in fact.
So every eye means, your minds eye to comprehend such is so.

"Every eye shall see" by definition, is as broad as all of creation, meaning all of history undone, with "every"one ever born present--not at all possible within the times of this world, but only at its undoing.

"Coming in the clouds of heaven" is that very same moment. But it would be wrong to consider it a one-time event from this worldly side of the equation, as it is written, "but each one in his own order."

 

[quietthinker]

If it did not take getting out of one's self to understand the reality of what was said in Acts 1:10-11, I could very well have said it much simpler.

The point is...the context is as great as angels talking from heaven across the void to men, saying what could be looked at from the worldly perspective or the heavenly, which difference is as difference as heaven and earth, and just as wrong if not considered according to what they actually saw being manifest for their witness and telling. Thus, if one does not have a mind to grasp that shaft of revealing light...they simply miss it. Perhaps the next generation then--that is, if there is a next generation.

"Rise, let us be going!"

I'm sorry Scott, your reply here is convoluted and sounds like your going around the block to get across the street.

 

[ScottA]

LOL!!! Satan's same old deception=== did God really say????

Careful...even Jesus had to clarify what the scriptures actually said (and even explain His own words to his own apostles), against the inclinations of would-be religious scholars (Priests and Pharisees).

The point is, the revelation "all truth" belongs to God alone, while it is foretold that by the teachings of evil men many would believe a "lie" causing "strong delusion" and "great apostacy."

 

[ScottA]

I'm sorry Scott, your reply here is convoluted and sounds like your going around the block to get across the street.

So...you believe...this is God taking the direct approach?

Well, it's not, but is rather the biggest sting unknown to man and Satan alike.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe those who were at the great dreadful day of the Lord were taken out by seeing Jesus in the clouds; just as it promised to be like when he had ascended up in the clouds, and those who were faithfully seeking seen him.

A promise of not tarrying was given to the Jewish people the Hebrew writers wrote too.

“And call to your remembrance the former days, in which, having been enlightened, ye did endure much conflict of sufferings, partly both with reproaches and tribulations being made spectacles, and partly having become partners of those so living, for also with my bonds ye sympathised, and the robbery of your goods with joy ye did receive, knowing that ye have in yourselves a better substance in the heavens, and an enduring one. Ye may not cast away, then, your boldness, which hath great recompense of reward, for of patience ye have need, that the will of God having done, ye may receive the promise, for yet a very very little, He who is coming will come, and will not tarry; and ‘the righteous by faith shall live,’ and ‘if he may draw back, My soul hath no pleasure in him,’ and we are not of those drawing back to destruction, but of those believing to a preserving of soul.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭32‬-‭39‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Hebrews 10:32-39 And call to your remembrance the former days, in which, having been enlightened, ye did endure much conflict of sufferings, partly both with reproaches and tribulations being made spectacles, and part | Young's Literal Translation 18

And call to your remembrance the former days, in which, having been enlightened, ye did endure much conflict of sufferings, partly both with reproaches and tribulations being made spectacles, and part

bible.com

During the losing of heaven and earth - the temple on mount Maria (however you spell it) in 70Ad. The time of that age is done and over with with all the mosaic law, and priest hood, and all that material religion was done away with during the desolation of Jerusalem.



Now today what does that mean?


I believe everyone I’ll meet Jesus and be judged, and placed where they are suppose to be by God either in or out of the kingdom.


But there is no more great and dreadful day, if it was only a one time event which I believe Jesus declared it would be.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe those who were at the great dreadful day of the Lord were taken out by seeing Jesus in the clouds; just as it promised to be like when he had ascended up in the clouds, and those who were faithfully seeking seen him.

A promise of not tarrying was given to the Jewish people the Hebrew writers wrote too.



During the losing of heaven and earth - the temple on mount Maria (however you spell it) in 70Ad. The time of that age is done and over with with all the mosaic law, and priest hood, and all that material religion was done away with during the desolation of Jerusalem.



Now today what does that mean?


I believe everyone I’ll meet Jesus and be judged, and placed where they are suppose to be by God either in or out of the kingdom.


But there is no more great and dreadful day, if it was only a one time event which I believe Jesus declared it would be.

This establishes a new heaven and new earth which is governed by God and unobservable as the kingdom of God lives within you by your faith in your heart in hope of a future in the heaven while experiencing the spirit through faith in the Gospel, with God being with you.

 

[Helen]

I don’t find that God is ever direct , any more than Jesus was…
The Book would never still be being read on a regular basis if everything that was written in it - meant what it said , and said what it meant . There would be no mystery , no ‘chasing after ‘ no seeking into deeper things …no God chasing .

He hides Himself in a cloak and says - “Come and find Me”.….
Some settle with what they believe that they have learned, some get bored and drop back , but some cling and desire to see into that which is invisible ….that's how “Moses injured as seeing Him…….”
Great is the mystery ……”Come, …further up and deeper in…”

 

[quietthinker]

I don’t find that God is ever direct , any more than Jesus was…
The Book would never still be being read on a regular basis if everything that was written in it - meant what it said , and said what it meant . There would be no mystery , no ‘chasing after ‘ no seeking into deeper things …no God chasing .

He hides Himself in a cloak and says - “Come and find Me”.….
Some settle with what they believe that they have learned, some get bored and drop back , but some cling and desire to see into that which is invisible ….that's how “Moses injured as seeing Him…….”
Great is the mystery ……”Come, …further up and deeper in…”

Is God a mystery or is he only a mystery to us? Does God deliberately hide himself or is our understanding of God so skewed our picture of him is distorted? I would say, the later.

Do the angels find him a mystery?

God visits, he takes on our form....condescending to even having his backside wiped .....so that we can understand him.

When will we take responsibility for our failure to see, to hear and to know?

 

[VCO]

This is what has been taught and what most believe, and what most expect to see of Jesus' second coming, as "coming in the clouds":

View attachment 31932​

​

But this is what is actually written (Jesus speaking):

"Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20-21​

​

What most have missed in the "coming in the clouds" passage...is that it does not say "clouds" as in the sky-- but specifically, "in the clouds of heaven."

That is the Second Coming, you can tell it is, by the Crown on His Head and the Horses. GOOD PICTURE by the way of the Second Coming.

The Rapture does Not have either of those. It also say HE is coming as a Son of Man, specifically for His Bride, NOT as KING OF KINGS. And He stops in the Clouds and sends the Archangel on ahead to CALL US OUT to go the Wedding of the LAMB. It does not count as a COMING, until HIS FEET touch the Ground. That is in the TRADITION of the Jewish Bridegroom coming for HIS BRIDE. He stops 2 or 3 blocks away, and sends the chosen on to blow the SHOFAR, to Call US OUT, and HE WILL SHOUT VERY LOUDLY.

Here is what the SHOFAR CALL SOUNDS LIKE. Believe me, if I hear that Sound at Night, I will been out back in my back yard in a flash.
I do not want to feel myself, going threw my ROOF.

 

[Helen]

Is God a mystery or is he only a mystery to us? Does God deliberately hide himself or is our understanding of God so skewed our picture of him is distorted? I would say, the later.

Do the angels find him a mystery?

God visits, he takes on our form....condescending to even having his backside wiped .....so that we can understand him.

When will we take responsibility for our failure to see, to hear and to know?

Hello my friend …hope you are doing well. We probably will agree to differ here .

Jesus said that He spoke in parables so that they would not understand….
Not only did the crowd not fully understand …but often the disciples came and asked Him questions because they did not understand .

Over my walk with the Lord since 1964 …I have found that He gives us just enough light and revelation to keep us encouraged and hungry…. Then He allows dry times to allow our faith to be tested during darkness ….
”Times and seasons “ ….our life has been full of them .( well mine has …hilltops and valleys ..)

With the constant question - “ Am I Enough ?”

He is much more than enough ….

blessings …H

 

[quietthinker]

Hello my friend …hope you are doing well. We probably will agree to differ here .

Jesus said that He spoke in parables so that they would not understand….
Not only did the crowd not fully understand …but often the disciples came and asked Him questions because they did not understand .

Over my walk with the Lord since 1964 …I have found that He gives us just enough light and revelation to keep us encouraged and hungry…. Then He allows dry times to allow our faith to be tested during darkness ….
”Times and seasons “ ….our life has been full of them .( well mine has …hilltops and valleys ..)

With the constant question - “ Am I Enough ?”

He is much more than enough ….

blessings …H

Hello Helen, James says, If any man lack wisdom let him ask go God who gives to all men liberally and upbraideth not.
He gives it to all men, not just Christians....but men don't get it and so dismiss it.

Jesus tells his parables about his kingdom knowing full well that it wont compute with most. Is that because Jesus is hiding something? Why would he want to put out and then deliberately conceal its meaning?

Our fear 'am I enough' underlies the assumption God is angry and something must be done to appease him. Yes, our assumptions inform/ colour how we understand/ see God.

Adam and Eve went and hid because they assumed God was mad at them. He asked them 'who told you, you were naked?'
God wasn't mad, he went and searched them out.....yep, there were consequences, but consequence does not mean arbitrary punishment.

Our lack of comprehension including our deliberate rejection of Gods attempts to enlighten (because it doesn't fit a fallen paradigm) is not by deliberate design of God. It is the result of a poor program (to use computer language).

Jesus came to speak well of God (not conceal him).....that's what blessing means; speaking well, in contrast to cursing, meaning, speaking poorly.

 

[QuantumBit]

LORD, please open their EYES...

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[GISMYS_7]

Believe God's Word and ignore the silly ideas and opinions of little men.

 

[David in NJ]

This is perhaps one of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible. It includes many points that can be interpreted in multiple ways. Even so, it is not possible that this passage contradicts or makes void the many other passages that establish the true spiritual nature of God and Jesus going to the Father in spirit which cannot be seen according to Jesus himself, who specifically said that the kingdom of God does not come by observation.

Well, Jesus was referring to His First Coming and the Promise of the Father = God in you the Hope of Glory!

Things change with His Second Coming, just as He said - Peace