Jesus' Crucifixion and Death, and Burial, were on consecutive days

[Jay Ross]

How can anyone give critique on your document seeing you have scarcely started with it, what, haven't finished with it yet? The columns you supplied do not reach up to Palm Sunday yet?

Just looked up the link to my PDF files, and it is what I had previously put up on the forum as an attachment within the context of a discussion around the Easter period..

Now concerning your comments that I have not presented the event of Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a cult, you have missed the point and fact that the adoration of the crowd happened during the twilight after the Sabbath day had ended at sunset. So if you had gone back to page 7 you would have seen the account of what we call Palm Sunday happening on or during what we would call Saturday evening's twilight period.

The document is over 90 pages long and begins with Jesus entering into Jericho and covers the time up and until Jesus' assent up to heaven.

You are welcome to provide a critique of that Document if you want to as it would be good for someone with biblical knowledge and the Jewish cultural understanding to highlight any possible corrections that need to be made.

Shalom

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Just looked up the link to my PDF files, and it is what I had previously put up on the forum as an attachment within the context of a discussion around the Easter period..

Now concerning your comments that I have not presented the event of Jesus riding into Jerusalem on a cult, you have missed the point and fact that the adoration of the crowd happened during the twilight after the Sabbath day had ended at sunset. So if you had gone back to page 7 you would have seen the account of what we call Palm Sunday happening on or during what we would call Saturday evening's twilight period.

The document is over 90 pages long and begins with Jesus entering into Jericho and covers the time up and until Jesus' assent up to heaven.

You are welcome to provide a critique of that Document if you want to as it would be good for someone with biblical knowledge and the Jewish cultural understanding to highlight any possible corrections that need to be made.

Shalom

I now remember. I cannot remember under which name my opposite debater was, or whether it was you I exchanged arguments with or not. But I shall trace back and see.

Kindly though, 'the document' 'The Heart of the Gospel' contains the complete and uninterrupted Text of all four Gospels at once, the ENGLISH KJV. Please, you are English are you not? Therefore, with the full, in sequence, parallel FOUR Texts together, HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG? Please read it, pages 46 to 59. Note especially page 50 John 12:12-19. Note <<the adoration of the crowd>> could not have <<happened during the twilight after the Sabbath day had ended at sunset>> because John expressly says it happened "eastern morning of daylight" [epaurion].

 

[bbyrd009]

Re: '~What do you do with the fact that the Manna was preserved over the Sabbath, and Jesus' body was "preserved from corruption" over the Sabbath?~'


Yes, the Manna was preserved over the Sixth Day and the Sabbath, like Jesus' body, was '~preserved from corruption~' over the Sixth Day and the Sabbath.

But the manna was also eaten on the Sabbath, and in the bellies of the eaters, although it corrupted, nevertheless preserved their lives on the Sabbath, as fore-shadowed it the Resurrection of Life of the Christ, the heavenly Manna "eaten" and buried "in the flesh", only "not to see corruption", but The Resurrection of Life "in the Last Day", "on the Sabbath".


Re: '~He died and was buried before the Sabbath~'

Christ died '~before the Sabbath~', but before the sabbath-of-the-passover, though. Therefore Jesus DIED on "the Preparation OF THE PASSOVER" John 19:14, "the first day they always had to KILL the passover and REMOVE leaven on" John 13:1 Mark 14:12 Matthew 26:17 Luke 22:7 -- "the fourteenth day of the First Month".


But Jesus was not '~buried before the Sabbath~' the same day! '~He was buried before the Sabbath~' on "The Preparation WHICH IS The Fore-Sabbath .. because That Day was great-day-of-sabbath-of" THE PASSOVER its first "Feast-Day-Sabbath-of-Unleavened-Bread" EATEN -- "the fifteenth day of the First Month". Which day began with its "evening" starting after sunset, Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 John 19:31,38 Luke 23:50.


So Joseph "evening" after sunset after the day Jesus died on, obtained the body "in order TO bury (Him) according to the ethics, custom, LAW of the Jews to bury", viz., the passover-Scriptures in the Torah, e.g., Exodus 12:6,8 Leviticus 23:5,6.


Re: '~arose sometime after the sun went down and Sabbath became the first day of the week - probably just before dawn "as the day was dawning".~'


No, "Late ON SABBATH being in the mid-afternoon before / towards / against the First Day of the week." "THEREFORE I (the LORD) COMMAND YOU THIS DAY" -- in the Fourth Commandment.

GE is the whole point here to dispute Sunday "sabbath" or something? ty

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Well, let us see, the pass over was on the Friday, so the day of preparation for the Passover was Thursday, which is also the day that Christ died.

What clue is given in the Gospels to confirm this? John 12:1 confirms this fact. Jesus arrives at Bethany 6 days before the Passover. He was in Jericho on the Friday having lunch at Zacchaeus before he sets off to walk up towards Jerusalem in the late afternoon and probably just before the sun set, heralding the start of the Sabbath Day, he arrived at Bethany. Six days after the Jesus arrived at Bethany, the Passover feast was to be celebrated on the Friday. This then make the Friday a High Sabbath day and a day of rest for the nation of Israel.

This then means that Jesus was crucified on the Thursday.

In the other thread on the Three days, I posted an attachment that arranges the gospel accounts into chronological order which I put together over 10 years ago to satisfy myself as to how the events leading up to the cross unfolded. The attachment might help this discussion as well.

Shalom

Re: <<This then means that Jesus was crucified on the Thursday.>>

I come to the same conclusion without any, doubt. Praise God. Let us depart from common ground then.

MOST IMPORTANT,

Day one of Jesus' passover "the first first day", "they KILLED the passover" Abib 14 "all day whole day BONE-essential day";

Day TWO of Jesus' passover "the first day no leavened bread" while instead "ye shall EAT (bury) the flesh with ulb" Feast; and "that which remains ye shall burn with fire (bury) next daylight .. That Selfsame BONE-essential Day" -- "That Day was great day of sabbath of", the passover Abib 15.

BURIAL was not undertaken ON THE SAME DAY THE LAMB WAS KILLED ON!

Then a 'Friday' Burial ONLY, fits with a Thursday Sacrifice / Crucifixion ONLY, as well as with the Resurrection "the third day .. on the Sabbath .. before the First Day of the week".

The Greek must be translated literally correctly, is all that is needed and required; and that one will be honest with and obedient to what the result certainly will be. AND THAT, CHRISTIANITY CERTAINLY IS NOT.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GE is the whole point here to dispute Sunday "sabbath" or something? ty

I answered you too in post#44.

 

[bbyrd009]

I answered you too in post#44.

ah, so

 

[rstrats]

Grailhunter,
re: "Why were the women at the tomb Sunday morning?"


If by Sunday you mean the first day of the week, Mark 16:1 along with Luke 24:1 should give you the answer to your query. I'm surprised you didn't already know that.

 

[Jay Ross]

I now remember. I cannot remember under which name my opposite debater was, or whether it was you I exchanged arguments with or not. But I shall trace back and see.

Kindly though, 'the document' 'The Heart of the Gospel' contains the complete and uninterrupted Text of all four Gospels at once, the ENGLISH KJV. Please, you are English are you not? Therefore, with the full, in sequence, parallel FOUR Texts together, HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG? Please read it, pages 46 to 59. Note especially page 50 John 12:12-19. Note <<the adoration of the crowd>> could not have <<happened during the twilight after the Sabbath day had ended at sunset>> because John expressly says it happened "eastern morning of daylight" [epaurion].

Your logic is what you want it to be, but since Bethany was only a short walk from the Temple, it is possible for the event to have occurred during the twilight period of what we would call Saturday Evening. The breeze that the Greek texts sort of suggests was felt was the continuation of the late afternoon breeze that occurs in association with a body of water next to the land as is the case with Jerusalem, with the dead sea on one side and the Mediterranean Sea on the other.

The other piece of scriptural evidence that it occurred during the twilight period of Sunday Night, which is the same period as our present day Saturday night during the twilight that occurs at the same latitudes all around the earth can be found in Mark_11:11 where we are told that Jesus entered the Temple, looked around and then turned on His heel and returned back to Bethany because it was then late at night.

Perhaps it is you that has your facts wrong.

Shalom

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Um--you all forget about the special "High Sabbath" that begins the Feast of Unleavened Bread, no matter what day of the week it falls on because it is tied to Passover which can fall on any day of the week. The period of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is one week and the day that begins it is always a Sabbath (known as the "High Sabbath") because the first day is Passover. Jesus was crucified on Wednesday. Here is the timeline:

Tuesday night--> Jesus celebrated the Passover meal early with His disciples. He, no doubt celebrated it early, which was permissible, because He knew He would not be alive for the actual Passover celebration the next evening. Then He and His disciples went to pray in Gethsemane. He was arrested and brought before the Jews that night.

Wednesday morning--> He was taken before Pilate, was on the cross by 9 a.m. and had died by 3 p.m. They hastened the death of the other prisoners because the Passover would begin at sundown. The Passover Lamb was to be killed before the Passover would begin at sundown.

Wednesday night--> Jesus in the tomb – first night, High Sabbath begins at sundown, as the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread as well as Passover.

Thursday--> Jesus in the tomb – first day, continuation of the High Sabbath

Thursday night--> Jesus in the tomb, second night, end of High Sabbath at sundown

Friday--> Jesus in the tomb, second day, spices bought and prepared before the regular weekly Sabbath would begin at sundown, but there was no time to anoint Him.

Friday night--> Jesus in the tomb, third night, regular weekly Sabbath begins at sundown

Saturday --> Jesus in the tomb third day, regular weekly Sabbath

Saturday Night --> Jesus must have been raised before sundown on Saturday--the end of the weekly Sabbath and the beginning of a new night. The Feast of First Fruits begins at sundown. The women were going to anoint Jesus at the tomb the next morning. Interestingly, work was permitted on the Feast of First Fruits. But He was not there--He had risen--He was and is the first of the First Fruits.

 

[Phoneman777]

NOT, as you allege wrongly (more likely falsely),

I lost a ten thousand dollar/month job cause I refused to break the ten commandments - because the Christ I serve said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." So, I assure you, I'm not in here breaking the ninth commandment for free.

You antinomianists who so despise the Law of God are in for such a rude awakening when Jesus says "Depart from Me, ye that work LAWLESSNESS".

 

[Phoneman777]

Exactly! The Scriptures Mark 15:42-47 Matthew 27:57-61 Luke 23:50-56a John 10:31-42 teach that Jesus' body was taken down and laid in a tomb "on The Preparation Day WHICH IS the Fore-Sabbath"-'Friday', Thursday night after sunset to Friday before sunset - <the sixth day of the week - and that the Sabbath [Seventh Day] was drawing close>, Luke 23:54.

But the Scriptures John 13:1,30; 18:28; 19:14 to 19:30 Luke 22:7-23:49 Mark 14:12-15:41 Matthew 26:17-27:56 teach that Jesus was delivered and led out to be crucified when "it was The Preparation Day OF THE PASSOVER", and that He was crucified and died "the ninth hour" 3 PM three hours before sunset on the Fifth Day of the week Thursday when "That Day great day of sabbath" OF THE PASSOVER, the Sixth Day of the week, was drawing <close> or was nearing.

And your point is...?

 

[Phoneman777]

You have <missed> that we do not <agree that: Jesus died on Nisan 14 (Preparation day aka "Friday")>.
It is not known to you that the Gospels follow the Torah, that: Jesus died on Nisan 14 "Preparation Day OF THE PASSOVER" 2Chronicles 39 John 13:1,30; 28:18; 19:14-30 Mark 14:12-15:41 Matthew 26:17-27:56 Luke 22:7-23:49 1Corinthians 11:23.

You have <missed> that Jesus was Buried <without His flesh seeing corruption> AT ALL TIME of his Suffering Dying Death, Nisan 14.


You have <missed> Jesus was “Prepared for to be Buried” as well as buried "That Day great day of sabbath" of the passover John 19:31 aka Nisan 15;


You have <missed> that Jesus was FINISHED <buried before the Sabbath began>, "That Day the Preparation the Sabbath mid-afternoon approaching" Luke 23:54 John 19:42 aka Nisan 15;


And you have <missed> that Jesus <rested in the tomb> through the Sabbath until the angel cast the stone from the tomb "mid-afternoon on the Sabbath before the First Day", 3 hours before sunset, Nisan 16 aka "Saturday".

I haven't missed a single thing. Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14, period. You're free to make up your own opinions, but not your own facts.

 

[rstrats]

Lady Crosstalk,
re: "Wednesday night--> Jesus in the tomb..."

A Wednesday night would have been over at least 9 hours by the time of the Messiah's death.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Lady Crosstalk,
re: "Wednesday night--> Jesus in the tomb..."

A Wednesday night would have been over at least 9 hours by the time of the Messiah's death.

No, Jesus died on Wednesday afternoon and was placed hastily in the tomb arranged by Joseph of Arimathea before sundown on Wednesday which would begin Passover and the High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Read it again, please. A note on First Fruits. At the time that the women arrived at the empty tomb to anoint Jesus' body, the Temple priests were waving the first of the barley crop at the altar. Gives one goosebumps, thinking about it. Jesus was and is the first of the First Fruits.

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter,
re: "Why were the women at the tomb Sunday morning?"


If by Sunday you mean the first day of the week, Mark 16:1 along with Luke 24:1 should give you the answer to your query. I'm surprised you didn't already know that.

lol Asking you. Why were they there?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I haven't missed a single thing. Jesus died on Friday, Nisan 14, period. You're free to make up your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Easy to be curt without Scripture to back you up.

SCRIPTURE remains: Jesus was Crucified on Abib 14 starting "evening" in Mark 14:12,17 Matthew 26:17,20 Luke 22:7,14 John 13:1,30 1Corinthians 11:23 -- "BEFORE THE FEAST". You are NOT free to make up your own opinions or your own facts.

SCRIPTURE remains: Jesus was Buried on Abib 15 "the Feast", "That Day great-day-of-sabbath-of" the PASSOVER, starting "evening" "AT THE FIRST NIGHT" with Joseph in Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50 John 19:31-38,39. You are NOT free to make up your own opinions or your own facts.

SCRIPTURE remains: Jesus was RAISED on Abib 16 "the third day.." "The True Witness the Beginning and END of the creation of God" "..said He would rise on", "THE SABBATH BEFORE the First Day of the week" Matthew 27:62-29:4 starting "evening" when "the women started to rest the Sabbath" Luke 23:56b. You are NOT free to make up your own opinions or your own facts.

You have <missed> "the WHOLE DAY BONE-ESSENTIAL-DAY" "THE DAY OF THE LORD" "THE LORD'S DAY" "the day The Seventh Day SABBATH OF THE LORD GOD".

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I lost a ten thousand dollar/month job cause I refused to break the ten commandments - because the Christ I serve said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." So, I assure you, I'm not in here breaking the ninth commandment for free.

You antinomianists who so despise the Law of God are in for such a rude awakening when Jesus says "Depart from Me, ye that work LAWLESSNESS".

My dear brother in Jesus Christ, I am deeply sorry for you, not because you had the courage to suffer for your conviction, but because you landed in the cruel claws of Seventh day Adventism.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, Jesus died on Wednesday afternoon and was placed hastily in the tomb arranged by Joseph of Arimathea before sundown on Wednesday which would begin Passover and the High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Read it again, please. A note on First Fruits. At the time that the women arrived at the empty tomb to anoint Jesus' body, the Temple priests were waving the first of the barley crop at the altar. Gives one goosebumps, thinking about it. Jesus was and is the first of the First Fruits.

Nothing easier than to answer this! SCRIPTURE please!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No, Jesus died on Wednesday afternoon and was placed hastily in the tomb arranged by Joseph of Arimathea before sundown on Wednesday which would begin Passover and the High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Read it again, please. A note on First Fruits. At the time that the women arrived at the empty tomb to anoint Jesus' body, the Temple priests were waving the first of the barley crop at the altar. Gives one goosebumps, thinking about it. Jesus was and is the first of the First Fruits.

Jesus died on "the ninth hour" afternoon 3 p.m.. Correct.

But not on a Fourth Day of the week <Wednesday>. That's you spinning nonsense.

<<and was placed hastily in the tomb>> and that's you again continuing spinning.

<<arranged by Joseph of Arimathea before sundown>> So "evening already" suddenly became 'before sundown'; not forwards mind you, but rearwards! History reversed! <Gives one goosebumps, thinking about it!>

Like a silkworm would unravel his own spinning from outside to inside... <<before sundown .. which would begin Passover and the High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread>> Joseph closed the grave "That Day the Preparation", "which is the Fore-Sabbath" Mark 15:42, "because That Day was great-day-of-sabbath-of" the passover John 19:31 MEANT FOR BURYING of the passover sacrifice Exodus 12:8,10 "the Sabbath mid-afternoon nearing" Luke 23:54, yet you claim <<Passover and the High Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread .. would begin>>!?

So what is it you want me to <Read again, please>? You should go read it your first time ever!

<<At the time that the women arrived at the empty tomb to anoint Jesus' body, the Temple priests were waving the first of the barley crop at the altar.>> That can only be Luke 24:1,2 "deepest morning" [orthrou batheohs] just after midnight". Now you are telling me something I could not have imagined, <<the Temple priests were waving the first of the barley crop at the altar>> "deepest morning" [orthrou batheohs] just after midnight"!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Your logic is what you want it to be, but since Bethany was only a short walk from the Temple, it is possible for the event to have occurred during the twilight period of what we would call Saturday Evening. The breeze that the Greek texts sort of suggests was felt was the continuation of the late afternoon breeze that occurs in association with a body of water next to the land as is the case with Jerusalem, with the dead sea on one side and the Mediterranean Sea on the other.

The other piece of scriptural evidence that it occurred during the twilight period of Sunday Night, which is the same period as our present day Saturday night during the twilight that occurs at the same latitudes all around the earth can be found in Mark_11:11 where we are told that Jesus entered the Temple, looked around and then turned on His heel and returned back to Bethany because it was then late at night.

Perhaps it is you that has your facts wrong.

Shalom

<<because it was then late at night.>> Through your teeth ...."!

<<since Bethany was only a short walk from the Temple, it is possible for the event to have occurred during the twilight period of what we would call Saturday Evening.>> And THIS is your <breeze> of evidence for full-proof you have <your facts> .. hmm .. right!?

What you rely on is your interpretation with <breeze> for the KJV word "tide", for TIME - 'hohra' - "late hour" - 'opse hohras'. Inform me, urgently please, because I have never seen or thought of this before.

And so by the buy,

Mark 11:11b relates what had happened “late” after what had happened “morning” in 11a;
and parallels
John 12:12 what had happened “in the morning” until verse 19 which happened late that day;
which parallels
Matthew 21:1 what had happened in in the morning until late that day in verse 11;
which parallels
Luke 19:28 in the morning until late that day in verse 44.

You must have heard the clock sound but didn't know where the bell was. Because you confused 'hohras' - 'of the hour / daytime' for 'ho ouros' - 'the breeze'.