Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[kcnalp]

In Deuteronomy 27, where the curses are found, the twenty-sixth verse of which is quoted in Galatians 3:10, only the moral law is referred to. But while it is doubtless true that the ceremonial law was included in the “book of the law,” I have yet to find Scripture proof for the statement that there was any curse pronounced for non-performance of the ceremonial law as an independent law. I will try to make clear what I mean.
There can be no moral obligation to perform anything not required by the moral law. That is simply another way of saying that sin is the transgression of the law. Now, if at any time sin can be imputed for the performance or nonperformance of any act not forbidden or enjoined in the moral law, then it necessarily follows that the moral law is not a perfect rule of action. But the moral law is a perfect law. It embodies all righteousness, even the righteousness of God, and nothing more can be required of any man than perfect obedience to it. That law is so broad that it covers every act and every thought, so that it is utterly impossible for a person to conceive of a sin which is not forbidden by the moral law.
That the curse of the law is death, I am sure you would agree. That being the case, I will offer a few points, now follow carefully...
1. The curse of the law is what Christ bore for us. See Galatians 3:13.
2. This curse consisted in being hanged on a tree. See last part of same verse.
3. This being hanged on a tree was the crucifixion of Christ, for at no other time was He ever hanged on a tree; and Peter said to the wicked Jews: “The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.” Acts 5:30.
Therefore death is the curse which Christ bore for us; but death is the wages of sin, and sin is the violation of the moral law. Therefore Christ bore the curse of the moral law for us. There is no other law that has any curse attached to it.
Now you astutely pointed out that death is the wages of disobedience to the Sabbath Commandment. You have yourself therefore proved that the Sabbath Commandment is an integral part of the moral law, a law which was never only for Israel, but was known to the ancients from before the time of Noah, even in Eden, for what Christian is there who wouldn't teach that sin was the catalyst for the fall?
The moral laws of God are universal. The claim that the Sabbath was ceremonial or of a nature that it could be discarded at a whim or by the say-so of the church, is to wrench the Commandment from the tables of stone, something no person would dare to do with any of the other nine.

If you want to be under the Sabbath commands THAT YOU DON'T EVEN OBEY, then you are under the curse of the Law.

ZERO Sabbath commands in the NT!

 

[Gregory]

So as a modern Christian, is it OK to not go to church on Saturday or Sunday and worship God?
Is it OK to break all of the 10 commandments?

I am confused after reading 10 pages of this OP?

 

[amadeus]

So as a modern Christian, is it OK to not go to church on Saturday or Sunday and worship God?
Is it OK to break all of the 10 commandments?

I am confused after reading 10 pages of this OP?

Paul wrote this about following him in the same way he was following Christ:

"Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." I Cor 11:1

Does that mean he was doing what Jesus told him to do?

Jesus told us to do this:

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

So then if you really do seek those two things first what will be added to us?

How can we know? Listen to our parents, our pastors or other formally positioned ministers?

Or perhaps the Truth of the matter should be found this way:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John14:26

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Ten Commandments aren't "Mosaic"...they are "Godsaic" - after all, they existed long before Moses and will exist for all eternity (Psalms 111:7-8 KJV) unlike the Mosaic Law which was nailed to the Cross, and is why it will always be wrong to steal, but is no longer wrong to disregard observance of the Passover.

Well thyen show prio0r to Moses receiving them, that god issued these ten commandments.

But Paul, being the good Jewish Christian he was had a very low opinion of the ten commandments:

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


Teh ten commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well thyen show prio0r to Moses receiving them, that god issued these ten commandments.

But Paul, being the good Jewish Christian he was had a very low opinion of the ten commandments:

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


Teh ten commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation!

They can’t fathom this truth. They are no different than the jews in Jesus day, proud, thinking they are more righteous than they are claiming to know the law, they have no grasp of it

 

[amigo de christo]

They can’t fathom this truth. They are no different than the jews in Jesus day, proud, thinking they are more righteous than they are claiming to know the law, they have no grasp of it

I have seen many a person twist the simplicity of what paul was writing to the hebrews , unto their own destruction .
I bet you might very well agree . Lets examine real close what paul is saying
Labor to enter into that rest . Who was paul pointing the hebrews too .
JESUS . And now a word From JESUS HIMSELF . COME UNTO ME ALL YE WHO DO LABOR AND ARE WEARY
and YE SHALL FIND REST , REST FOR YOUR SOULS . For my burden is easy and my yoke is light .
Paul was pointing them TO FAITH IN JESUS . ENTER YE INTO THAT . LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .

 

[Gregory]

Well thyen show prio0r to Moses receiving them, that god issued these ten commandments.

But Paul, being the good Jewish Christian he was had a very low opinion of the ten commandments:

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


Teh ten commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation!

So are you saying that the 10 commandments are no longer to be lived in our modern Christianity?

 

[Gregory]

Well thyen show prio0r to Moses receiving them, that god issued these ten commandments.

But Paul, being the good Jewish Christian he was had a very low opinion of the ten commandments:

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


Teh ten commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation!

So are you saying we should not live by the 10 commandments as Christians in this modern day?

 

[Phoneman777]

Sabbath day keepers don’t actually keep the sabbath as required - the law that the sabbath command is part of, requires stoning sabbath breakers to death.

Also it’s forbidden to have any fires in your habitation on the sabbath - meaning no cooking, no hot water heater, and no furnace when it’s 20 below zero in the winter.

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Exo 35:3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.


Not to mention that a burnt sacrifice is an integral part of each sabbath day observance, meaning sacrifice of animals are required.

Num 28:9 And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:

Num 28:10 This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

And yes, fires at the altar for a burnt offering were okay, it’s in the home/habitation/tent that fires on the sabbath are forbidden.

So sabbath keepers don’t really keep the sabbath properly

What was that you were saying about being obedient to the law?

Where in the Ten Commandments does it say any of that? The Fourth Commandment as written by the finger of God goes all the way back to Eden, and is SO EASY to keep! You don't have to do an work, just chill, read your Bible, go to church, help spread the love of Jesus, feed those in need, etc....all easy and delightful!

 

[Phoneman777]

Well thyen show prio0r to Moses receiving them, that god issued these ten commandments.

But Paul, being the good Jewish Christian he was had a very low opinion of the ten commandments:

2 Corinthians 3:6-11
King James Version

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.


Teh ten commandments are a ministry of death and condemnation!

I think you're confusing his low opinion with the motivation for keeping them, not the keeping of them. Pretty sure he loved the idea of keeping them out of love for Jesus: "For the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."

You see, Jesus didn't come to diminish the law, He came to MAGNIFY the law, according to Isaiah 42:21 KJV.

 

[Phoneman777]

I have seen many a person twist the simplicity of what paul was writing to the hebrews , unto their own destruction .
I bet you might very well agree . Lets examine real close what paul is saying
Labor to enter into that rest . Who was paul pointing the hebrews too .
JESUS . And now a word From JESUS HIMSELF . COME UNTO ME ALL YE WHO DO LABOR AND ARE WEARY
and YE SHALL FIND REST , REST FOR YOUR SOULS . For my burden is easy and my yoke is light .
Paul was pointing them TO FAITH IN JESUS . ENTER YE INTO THAT . LET THE GLORIOUS LORD BE PRAISED .

You do realize that Hebrews 4:9-10 says if we are inwardly resting in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that by resting outwardly on the Sabbath day, right?

 

[Phoneman777]

What I wonder is why you think the law, which required perfection hence as paul said no one can be justified by law. Could not save us

yet you think us buying commands that fall far short of obedience to the law can save us.

can you explain why you think you are more worthy as a sinner than any other sinner?

No one can be justified by the law... according to Luke 17:10 KJV, it's an impossibility.

However, once saved, we evidence that salvation by keeping the Ten Commandments, and likewise, anyone who fights against the keeping of them evidences he is not saved.

 

[Phoneman777]

Michael is your God and Savior? Jesus is mine!

You do realize the teaching that Michael the Archangel is Jesus was a well known, widely accepted belief until the Jehovah's Witnesses started using the Scriptural arguments for this to "prove" Jesus was nothing more than a created being, right?

Many Christians like Spurgeon, Adam Clarke, Matthew Henry, and others all saw in the Person of Michael the Archangel, Jesus...even Jewish commentators say where Michael appears, the "Divine Presence of God was manifested".

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually I have never heard this thinking, I can only ask who Gabriel is then? He too is an archangel

Gabriel is never called "archangel". There's only one.

Commentator Adam Clarke says, "Let it be observed that the word archangel is never found in the plural number in the sacred writings. There can be properly only one archangel, one chief or head of all the angelic host."

 

[Phoneman777]

Wow, no pride there

forgive me for honestly asking a question.

whatever dude. Go live in whatever world you live in. I am amazed at the way people who call themselves Christians act in these chat rooms

Dude is one of the most humble Christians you'll ever talk to in chats.

To the contrary, the most arrogant folks I've come across are those who claim to have a corner on the market of love and compassion and tolerance for sin...EXCEPT for the "sin" of calling sin by it's rightful name...that's when the horns, fangs, claws, and forked tongues come out.

 

[Phoneman777]

so Jesus was just an angel come to earth. He was created and not the alpha and omega?

No, Jesus was in the beginning with the Father. However, when He manifested Himself as an angel, He took the name Michael - "the One Who is as God" - just as when He manifested Himself as a human, He took the name "Jesus" - the "Savior of His people from their sins".

 

[Phoneman777]

Can you explain how anyone can "work their way to heaven" while resting on the Sabbath?
Perhaps you might also explain how one can make Christ Himself his Sabbath rest, when Christ Himself blessed, sanctified, and made holy a specific day to signify not just His rest, but a deliberate devotion of one 24 hour period in which we also may be refreshed.
KJV Exodus 31:17
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

I busted my backside in this American South heat all week, so I'm especially grateful to just chill in my A/C all day resting!

They offered OT today and I could have made a quick and easy $700, but how can I demonstrate to the world that I'm resting in the finished work of my Savior if I'm out there working on the Sabbath, when the purpose of the Sabbath is to prove to the world that the God I worship is both my Creator and my Redeemer?

 

[Phoneman777]

Stop sinning? No we can’t, though by the spirit the sin with-in the flesh becomes less and less.

Even a pagan married man can be faithful to the same woman for 50 years, but a Christian man is not able to do "all things through Christ" Who strengthens him?

Sin is always a choice that we make, not a condition out of which we can't break.

If the church would stop making excuses for sin while all the while crawling away from temptation hoping it catches up to them, we'd see a manifestation of Godliness not seen since apostolic times.

 

[kcnalp]

No, Jesus was in the beginning with the Father. However, when He manifested Himself as an angel, He took the name Michael - "the One Who is as God" - just as when He manifested Himself as a human, He took the name "Jesus" - the "Savior of His people from their sins".

So Michael is your savior. Where is Michael called our Savior in the Bible?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello; @Phoneman777

I posted this answer to another forum site.

I believe that as scriptures indicate in becoming dead to sin; though sin can come up in a Christians walk.

Romans 6:11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

It is for sure that none of us will be able to perfect ourselves and become like Christ Jesus; and be sinless for as human beings we are already tainted with Sin; though it has been paid for by Christ; when we come to the knowledge of the truth of what God had provided for us and walk and seek after God in spirit and in truth. Christians are made new creations in Christ Jesus dying to the old man and walking in the newness of life with Christ Jesus with-in them. Worshiping God in spirit and in truth even though we do fail sometimes in our Love for God; and Love For Others. Which keeps us humble and seeking after God and his goodness.