Jesus' Millennium Reign: The Greatest Harvest of Souls Ever.

[Truth7t7]

Jesus revealed his glory, but he did not, at that time, receive his glorified body. It was a revelation--not a physical transformation from one body to another body, except by appearances.

Jesus maintained a eternal glorified body of flesh and bone after the resurrection, your claims are false

Just like the Angels of God are eternal male beings, with tangible bodies that eat physical food in this world, just as Jesus did after the resurrection

 

[Truth7t7]

That Jesus could not be healed, physically, from his crucifixion, that once he receives wounds he must forever bear their scars? This seems ludicrous. If he can be healed from physical beatings and death, he can certainly be rid of scars imposed by those beatings!

Jesus Christ ascended to the father as his disciples watched, in the very same scared body that Thomas and his disciples touched and were eye witnesses of

 

[Veronamvm]

удалите пожалуйста.

 

[Randy Kluth]

After the resurrection Jesus maintained a resurrected glorified tangible body of flesh and bone, a body that could enter a room with doors shut, vanish out of human sight, and could eat tangible food in this physical world

There is one future resurrection that will take place, Jesus was the fruistfruit, and we will have a body just as his after the resurrection

We'll have to disagree on this brother. Jesus resurrected in his old body, in my opinion. The ability of this body to move through walls is no more miraculous than the many miracles we see in the OT Scriptures. Physical apparitions of angels indicate this. What you say makes sense, but contains no theology at all. Without explicit statements we don't have any theological certainty.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus maintained a eternal glorified body of flesh and bone after the resurrection, your claims are false

Just like the Angels of God are eternal male beings, with tangible bodies that eat physical food in this world, just as Jesus did after the resurrection

Even if angels appeared as "men," the indication to me is that angels are genderless. That's what Jesus seemed to say. Genders have to do with sexual reproduction, and angels do not marry or have children.

Mark 12.24 Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God? 25 When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

 

[Keraz]

When the dead rise

This happens after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Those killed during the Great Trib, are the only exception. Rev 20:4 And Jesus will reign with them on earth. Zechariah 14:16-21

 

[Randy Kluth]

This happens after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
Those killed during the Great Trib, are the only exception. Rev 20:4 And Jesus will reign with them on earth. Zechariah 14:16-21

I do understand your position, brother. Unless new evidence arises, which I doubt at this point, we'll probably remain where we are in our positions? We agree on the most important thing! :)

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

They are indeed a most fanatical sort.

I never understood why Christians would call themselves anything other than Christians. I've never done so.

And who would call themselves an 'amil'? It sounds like a pill.

They call themselves amils, and one another amils, and then get offended for being called a sect of amils.

Premils call each other Premils as well. It's not a term to replace the term Christian, you silly goose. We identify first and foremost as Christians just as you do, you goofy person. The terms Amil and Premil are just terms that describe what someone believes in regards to Revelation 20.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What absolute rot!
Rev 20 states 'a thousand years' six times. You AMills make every effort to make out it's just symbolic.

It is symbolic. The number of times it's stated does not determine if it's symbolic or not. What a ridiculous notion. You should be embarrassed for trying to use that weak argument. The beast is referenced over 30 times in the book of Revelation. Does that make it a literal beast?

We have all shown you scriptures like Hosea 6:2 and the proof of there now being nearly 6000 years since Adam. You ignore them to your discredit.
Your crusade to promote the AMillennium theory, by forceful and heavy handed means, by degradation and abuse of those who oppose it, is an indictment against you.

The issue of exactly what happens after Jesus Returns, when considered dispassionately, is not one we should or even need to get het up about. But I do worry, that if Jesus really is reigning now and our current situation is as good as it gets, then maybe we are without hope.

Who is saying that our current situation is as good as it gets? No one. Stop wasting your time arguing with straw men. Amils put a strong emphasis on 2 Peter 3:10-13 which talks about the heavens and earth being burned up and renewed when Christ returns, resulting in the new heavens and new earth that Peter said we are looking forward to. That is still future and that will be as good as it gets since there will be no more death, pain, crying or sorrow at that point.

 

[Keraz]

It is symbolic. The number of times it's stated does not determine if it's symbolic or not. What a ridiculous notion. You should be embarrassed for trying to use that weak argument.

The really weak argument on the issue of the thousand years, is made by those who insist it doesn't mean what it says; SIX times.
Embarrassed? Prepare for that yourself.

 

[robert derrick]

The the harvest of souls to god during Christ's Millennium, answers the only real challenge to the sheep and goats, as being naturally righteous and naturally wicked people left alive on earth.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This says the natural sheep will not only enter into His Millennium kingdom on earth, but will also enter into His everlasting spiritual kingdom and have eternal life, the same as all saints today.

Since the saints were already first resurrected, before the Lord makes war on earth, and are already judged worthy of the Lamb, then they cannot be among the nations to be judged by their works, as doers of good or evil.

And also, since the Lord will Personally once again pour out the Spirit of grace upon the earth, then them that had been naturally righteous and left alive on earth, will also be the first to be saved during His reign by grace through faith.

All eyes have already seen Him and mourned, but not all will receive his Spirit and love Him for it.

The Millennium of Christ will begin with only the naturally good Samaritans as His subjects, and they will also be the first to be circumcised of Christ, and enter into eternal life by His grace.

At the beginning of His Millennium, there will only be newborn babes in Christ being ruled by Him, as well as the natural priesthood of the King with outwardly and inwardly circumcised Hebrews and Jews. (Ezek 44)

 

[robert derrick]

Premils call each other Premils as well.

I don't. And you 'amils' are the only ones boasting of your own camp within the body of Christ.

It's not a term to replace the term Christian, you silly goose. We identify first and foremost as Christians just as you do, you goofy person.

I prefer people curse me honestly, and despise those who mask it out of fear.

And what's worse is, you're becoming useless in the argument.

I've chosen to rebuke you this time, rather than report you.

 

[Timtofly]

We'll have to disagree on this brother. Jesus resurrected in his old body, in my opinion. The ability of this body to move through walls is no more miraculous than the many miracles we see in the OT Scriptures. Physical apparitions of angels indicate this. What you say makes sense, but contains no theology at all. Without explicit statements we don't have any theological certainty.

Jesus had one body, but not a body of death. You claim Jesus keeps the same body, but then contradict yourself by saying a dead mortal body is permanent and forever.

Is it that hard to understand that as God, Jesus always had a permanent incorruptible physical body? The same body that God placed in the womb, and not from some male offspring of Adam. God created the sons of God in the image of God. Why would the body of Jesus be any different from their's? The sons of God did not come from Adam and Eve. They were created by God. Jesus took on human form in the womb. Jesus did not become death in the womb. The becoming death part was on the Cross. 3 days later the same body overcame death, and defeated death, even though for the rest of humanity, death will not be defeated until after the Millennium reign of Christ.

Not that death reigns in the Millennium. Not natural death. The death that is an enemy of God through disobedience. Many since the Cross have not tasted death, as an enemy. To them, death is already defeated. Death is not just physical, but spiritual. Until Gog and Magog make their last stand as rebels following Satan, death is still an option as the reward for disobedience, even if just a thought, and not an action.

 

[Timtofly]

It is symbolic. The number of times it's stated does not determine if it's symbolic or not.

This is your opinion, and an assertion you cannot prove.

Is the reign of Christ merely symbolic as well and not literal?

Why do you get to pick and choose what is symbolic, and what is literal?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus had one body, but not a body of death. You claim Jesus keeps the same body, but then contradict yourself by saying a dead mortal body is permanent and forever.

I think you may have my positions confused? I believe Jesus kept his same mortal body after the resurrection, but only until he ascended into heaven. The permanent body is the immortal glorified body that we get when we ascend into heaven.

Is it that hard to understand that as God, Jesus always had a permanent incorruptible physical body?

These kind of statements throw me off because they don't make sense to me. Jesus had a temporal body because he had come to die in it. However, I agree with you that his body was incorruptible in the sense that he could not stay dead.

The same body that God placed in the womb, and not from some male offspring of Adam. God created the sons of God in the image of God. Why would the body of Jesus be any different from their's? The sons of God did not come from Adam and Eve.

This is another statement that throws me off. The children of God all came from Adam and Eve, according to the Scriptures. But I agree that in order to become children of God we have to also be born of God's word.

They were created by God. Jesus took on human form in the womb. Jesus did not become death in the womb. The becoming death part was on the Cross. 3 days later the same body overcame death, and defeated death, even though for the rest of humanity, death will not be defeated until after the Millennium reign of Christ.

Not that death reigns in the Millennium. Not natural death. The death that is an enemy of God through disobedience. Many since the Cross have not tasted death, as an enemy. To them, death is already defeated. Death is not just physical, but spiritual.

Again, this statement doesn't make sense to me. Obviously, death is physical. The spiritual reason for death does not make it any less a *physical* death!

 

[Timtofly]

I think you may have my positions confused? I believe Jesus kept his same mortal body after the resurrection, but only until he ascended into heaven. The permanent body is the immortal glorified body that we get when we ascend into heaven.

These kind of statements throw me off because they don't make sense to me. Jesus had a temporal body because he had come to die in it. However, I agree with you that his body was incorruptible in the sense that he could not stay dead.

This is another statement that throws me off. The children of God all came from Adam and Eve, according to the Scriptures. But I agree that in order to become children of God we have to also be born of God's word.

Again, this statement doesn't make sense to me. Obviously, death is physical. The spiritual reason for death does not make it any less a *physical* death!

Adam was one of many sons of God created on the 6th day. If you are confused about that, then you can not distinguish between the sons of God and Adam's dead corruptible flesh in Genesis 6.

Jesus was born a son of God without Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Not that Mary was without sin, but because Jesus had no earthly father. It can be argued that Mary was not even part of the process, as well. It is possible and plausible even today that a woman can carry a child to term that she is not biologically the mother of.

That may have been difficult to understand, even 200 years ago.

Being born spiritually is only the first step. As a restored son of God, we have to ditch Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

Not sure why people are stuck in the mind set of mortal and immortal? You do realize that Greek philosophy and mythology was ingrained in both the OT and NT Roman world, but please, while Paul may have used Greek words, he was not promoting Greek ideology. Unfortunately many christian theologians were converted from that philosophy and they were not as divorced as Paul was. Paul may have had that education, but was writing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Theology is not Scripture.

Sons of God are not immortals in the sense of the word. A permanent physical body does not mean death cannot happen. God stills holds the right to take life and give life. God is still the Potter, and we are created beings. When Adam disobeyed, God gave Adam a physical body of death, and took away the permanent without death body, because as a sinner, one is not supposed to keep sinning forever. So being mortal is not that far off, as they both are a physical body of death. But we don't become immortal as free of death in the same Greek sense, because immortals are still eternal sinners that have eternal life. The soul is already an immortal sinner. The soul does not change physically, but has a spiritual change.

Paul was saying that this state of death puts on life. Not that mortal sinners become immortal sinners. Of course if you don't accept sin is removed spiritually and sin is only associated with the physical flesh, I will never change your mind. The flesh is just in bondage to the sin nature of the mind, not that the flesh and physical beings are prohibited from God or God's presence. I agree that in Adam's case he was in the process of death. However it was not because the flesh demands death. It was because death demands the flesh has to naturally die. The last enemy being death, not the physical body.

Adam's original body was literally taken away as we would call the soul "dying". That permanent physical body was replaced by the dead (mortal) physical body. But getting the permanent body from God is not becoming immortal, nor an immortal. It is going from a corruptible body to an incorruptible body. The putting on of immortality is putting on the spirit and becoming the image of God, as a fully restored son of God. That is back to Adam's condition before Adam disobeyed and literally died, physically and spiritually in one instant.

The common mythological use of mortal and immortal is becoming a "god", thus eternal. But we are not becoming gods. We are putting on the spirit and becoming sons of God as created on the 6th day.

So immortal can never be a physical body nor define changing from one body to another. It is about the spiritual and the immortality of the spirit that can never die. Adam's spirit did not die. The spirit was taken away from Adam, and when that happened, Adam saw his naked physical body for the first time ever. That is why Paul states this mortal must put on immortality. The physical must put on the spirit or spiritual aspect of being a son of God.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Adam was one of many sons of God created on the 6th day. If you are confused about that, then you can not distinguish between the sons of God and Adam's dead corruptible flesh in Genesis 6.

Who besides Adam was created on the 6th day? I'm not confused about what the Scriptures say. I'm confused as to why you believe "many" people were created on the 6th day when the Bible only says that Man, singular, was created on the 6th day?

Jesus was born a son of God without Adam's dead corruptible flesh. Not that Mary was without sin, but because Jesus had no earthly father. It can be argued that Mary was not even part of the process, as well. It is possible and plausible even today that a woman can carry a child to term that she is not biologically the mother of.

Nobody here is arguing the Virgin Birth doctrine.

That may have been difficult to understand, even 200 years ago.

Being born spiritually is only the first step. As a restored son of God, we have to ditch Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

Whatever language you use, we do have to die to our corrupted flesh, which refers to our current physical stature being infected with a Sin Nature. We "die to it" simply by ensuring all that we do is done in cooperation with the Spirit of Christ. What we are doing is dying to our independent spirit, making sure our physical beings conform to the will of God, and not to our own independent will.

Not sure why people are stuck in the mind set of mortal and immortal? You do realize that Greek philosophy and mythology was ingrained in both the OT and NT Roman world, but please, while Paul may have used Greek words, he was not promoting Greek ideology. Unfortunately many christian theologians were converted from that philosophy and they were not as divorced as Paul was. Paul may have had that education, but was writing under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Theology is not Scripture.

Being that as it may, Scripture makes a big deal out of the difference between mortality and immortality. Our hope is in putting on the new immortal, glorified bodies that Christ has promised us in the resurrection. Our present bodies have a Sin Nature, which is the very reason we are mortal and must die physically.

Sons of God are not immortals in the sense of the word. A permanent physical body does not mean death cannot happen. God stills holds the right to take life and give life. God is still the Potter, and we are created beings. When Adam disobeyed, God gave Adam a physical body of death, and took away the permanent without death body, because as a sinner, one is not supposed to keep sinning forever. So being mortal is not that far off, as they both are a physical body of death. But we don't become immortal as free of death in the same Greek sense, because immortals are still eternal sinners that have eternal life. The soul is already an immortal sinner. The soul does not change physically, but has a spiritual change.

I don't agree with your terms. Being "immortal," in the biblical sense, means that we can no longer sin and die. That is what "immortal" means.

You may be right that our original bodies were not intended to die, simply because God did not intend for us to sin. But He did give us that choice, which is why bodies that would not have died did die.

But Paul argued that our current bodies, whether in the original form of Adam or in our current sin-cursed form, are a "seed." That is, they were not intended to be permanent, even if they were not intended to die.

As sinful people our bodies do die, just as a seed in the ground metaphorically "dies." But before the Fall, Paul may have characterized these bodies differently, as bodies that shift-change once we partake of the Tree of Life. Worth a thought?

Paul was saying that this state of death puts on life. Not that mortal sinners become immortal sinners.

You seem to use the word "immortal" for "eternal." I believe all men are eternal, but not all men are immortal. So the terms "immortal" and "eternal" are not always interchangeable, and certainly not in this context, as I see it.

Of course if you don't accept sin is removed spiritually and sin is only associated with the physical flesh, I will never change your mind.

I don't know what you think I believe? Sin is not removed spiritually until we become sinless, which certainly is not where we're at today! Our legal judgment has been removed, but now "grace" is the thing that controls the process, so that we partake of God's life while at the same time suffering the setbacks and obstacles imposed by our Sin Nature.

The flesh is just in bondage to the sin nature of the mind, not that the flesh and physical beings are prohibited from God or God's presence. I agree that in Adam's case he was in the process of death. However it was not because the flesh demands death. It was because death demands the flesh has to naturally die. The last enemy being death, not the physical body.

Don't really understand your argument here? If the sinful mind cannot perceive God then how could anybody be saved? They certainly have the ability to receive revelation from God so that they can abandon their sinful mind in favor of a renewed mind! The only mind that cannot receive revelation is the stubborn, recalcitrant mind of the flesh.

Adam's original body was literally taken away as we would call the soul "dying". That permanent physical body was replaced by the dead (mortal) physical body.

Adam remained in the same body, according to the Scriptures--he just changed. Having received a Sin Nature his body became susceptible to all kinds of trouble, disease, and death. But it was the original body, now sickened by the affects of the Sin Nature.

It was the mind, as you say, that was affected by the Sin Nature, turning human decisions into a process that begins with self-autonomy, or independent judgment from God's judgment. But we are able to consider God's point of view and His wish for us, and we can then turn our mind away from independent judgment to consult the Lord and His wisdom.

Sorry, too many interruptions right now.... ;)

 

[Timtofly]

Who besides Adam was created on the 6th day? I'm not confused about what the Scriptures say. I'm confused as to why you believe "many" people were created on the 6th day when the Bible only says that Man, singular, was created on the 6th day?

Nobody here is arguing the Virgin Birth doctrine.

Whatever language you use, we do have to die to our corrupted flesh, which refers to our current physical stature being infected with a Sin Nature. We "die to it" simply by ensuring all that we do is done in cooperation with the Spirit of Christ. What we are doing is dying to our independent spirit, making sure our physical beings conform to the will of God, and not to our own independent will.

Being that as it may, Scripture makes a big deal out of the difference between mortality and immortality. Our hope is in putting on the new immortal, glorified bodies that Christ has promised us in the resurrection. Our present bodies have a Sin Nature, which is the very reason we are mortal and must die physically.

I don't agree with your terms. Being "immortal," in the biblical sense, means that we can no longer sin and die. That is what "immortal" means.

You may be right that our original bodies were not intended to die, simply because God did not intend for us to sin. But He did give us that choice, which is why bodies that would not have died did die.

But Paul argued that our current bodies, whether in the original form of Adam or in our current sin-cursed form, are a "seed." That is, they were not intended to be permanent, even if they were not intended to die.

As sinful people our bodies do die, just as a seed in the ground metaphorically "dies." But before the Fall, Paul may have characterized these bodies differently, as bodies that shift-change once we partake of the Tree of Life. Worth a thought?

You seem to use the word "immortal" for "eternal." I believe all men are eternal, but not all men are immortal. So the terms "immortal" and "eternal" are not always interchangeable, and certainly not in this context, as I see it.

I don't know what you think I believe? Sin is not removed spiritually until we become sinless, which certainly is not where we're at today! Our legal judgment has been removed, but now "grace" is the thing that controls the process, so that we partake of God's life while at the same time suffering the setbacks and obstacles imposed by our Sin Nature.

Don't really understand your argument here? If the sinful mind cannot perceive God then how could anybody be saved? They certainly have the ability to receive revelation from God so that they can abandon their sinful mind in favor of a renewed mind! The only mind that cannot receive revelation is the stubborn, recalcitrant mind of the flesh.

Adam remained in the same body, according to the Scriptures--he just changed. Having received a Sin Nature his body became susceptible to all kinds of trouble, disease, and death. But it was the original body, now sickened by the affects of the Sin Nature.

It was the mind, as you say, that was affected by the Sin Nature, turning human decisions into a process that begins with self-autonomy, or independent judgment from God's judgment. But we are able to consider God's point of view and His wish for us, and we can then turn our mind away from independent judgment to consult the Lord and His wisdom.

Sorry, too many interruptions right now.... ;)

Because "man" is plural.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them,"

This is referring to mankind as the perfect sons of God, in God's image. Not Adam kind after the fall. This is humanity prior to the fall. There were many and they were male and female.

That was the condition for a whole Lord's Day. Many generations plural. Genesis 2:4

"These are the generations (plural) of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day (singular) that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,"

As a premill the day of the Lord is the last millennium on earth. In Genesis 2, the first day of the Lord was a millennium on earth. Many generations of life then as there will be in the last day of the Lord.

Adam's punishment was 6 days in between the two book ends of God's perfect creation.

You are the one turning the virgin birth into the fact "that made Jesus have a mortal body". Jesus had a permanent incorruptible physical body in the womb of Mary from God, not from Adam through Mary nor a sinful human.

 

[robert derrick]

The righteous sheep will be the first saved Christians in Christ's earthly Millennium:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

That kingdom of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is both His everlasting kingdom the saints inherit, as well as His Millennium on earth inherited by the meek.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The unsaved and unbelieving goats will go to hell, the same as the wicked dead today, and the saved sheep into eternal life, the same as the sheep and saints of Jesus Christ today.

Only the newly saved sheep of the Lord, will be them He rules from among all nations, after He comes again to earth, to destroy the wicked and save them that do good.

That beginning will be greater than the first beginning of the Lord and man on earth, with Adam and Eve in the garden.

Because those sheep as today, know the spiritual death of sinning against the Lord.

And that thousand years will be the greatest harvest of souls on earth ever.

 

[Timtofly]

The righteous sheep will be the first saved Christians in Christ's earthly Millennium:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

That kingdom of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world is both His everlasting kingdom the saints inherit, as well as His Millennium on earth inherited by the meek.

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The unsaved and unbelieving goats will go to hell, the same as the wicked dead today, and the saved sheep into eternal life, the same as the sheep and saints of Jesus Christ today.

Only the newly saved sheep of the Lord, will be them He rules from among all nations, after He comes again to earth, to destroy the wicked and save them that do good.

That beginning will be greater than the first beginning of the Lord and man on earth, with Adam and Eve in the garden.

Because those sheep as today, know the spiritual death of sinning against the Lord.

And that thousand years will be the greatest harvest of souls on earth ever.

Why? Would they not be called kingdomaires, as Jesus is now King, not just followers of Jesus as Messiah?

No one can stop being in the Lamb's book of life, nor start being in the Lamb's book of life on their own. All have been there since the foundation of the world. No one can accept salvation in the Millennium. They are already born "saved". No one is born in Adam's image, nor does Adam's image even exist in the Millennium. That is the whole point of the Millennium, unlike the last 6,000 years of Adam's sin nature passed on from generation to generation.

The first act of disobedience is a one way ticket out of the Lamb's book of life and into Death. One is no longer alive on the earth at that point.