Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Appeal to Ignorance. God does not know nonsense like square circles or trinitarianism because both contradict and go against sense and knowledge.
John 1:1 looked at HONESTLY!
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Appeal to Ignorance. God does not know nonsense like square circles or trinitarianism because both contradict and go against sense and knowledge.
Yep, that's exactly what JW's do, even tho their own NWT says they are wrong!
John 20:20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and MY GOD". Even the JW Bible says you're wrong.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
But the Jews said he was not God. Odd that you take as narration what is exclamation. People say 'my God' even today as an exclamation not a declarative statement of fact.
Jesus said he was not God over and over and over again. This means nothing to you?!
John 20:
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Let me put it another way. The Father is divine, the son is divine, the holy spirit is divine- they all share the exact same divinity. they are not three seperate Gods with separate divinities like the old pagan triads. The Apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said Jesus is equal with God.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I agree with what you say here 100%. I think you are making too much of a big deal over the terms "distinct" and "separate"
The Father is not the Son who is not the Spirit but they are all equally God! YOu call them distinct persons, I call them separate because they are separate individuals in that the Father isnot the son who is not the Spirit!
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
No where in the entire Bible are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, referred to as "divine", which means "God-like", but not "God".
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
it is not as you say, "a big deal", but very important to get our theology right.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter what translators did or did not do- Elohim and Adonai are plural nbouns in Hebrew like it or not. that is just simple fact.
Genesis 1 makes it pretty clear when Elohim (plural) said "Let us (elohim) make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness!
KJV footnotes that Yahweh is replaced with Lord in most cases following the Jewish tradition of reverencing the name of God so much as to not even write it! I think it is silly, but you make a tempest in a teapot.
I use Hebrew grammar from Hebrew Scholars. If you think they lie- then you need to bring th eevidence.
Well saying there many many mistakes is easy- now bring some of these biggies out!
If you wasnt to agree upon another English translation- we will use that in our discussions.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
maybe in english "divine" means god-like" but in Greek and Hebrew it means GOD. God is a term that has two uses. JOhn 1:1 shows those two uses perfectly.
The Word was with the god (the the is there in the original) which refers to a specific person, then the Word was God which refers to nature or essence. So the Word was with the GOd (Father) and the Word was God (absolute deity as the Father is)
Now the Father is exalted above the Son who is exalted above the Spirit. But that is an order in the trinity. But they are all equally absolute deity. That is why Jesus could say, if you have observed me, you have observed the Father. Too many people like to complicate and re-interpret that very simply unambiguous statement of Jesus.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well then define for me how you view "separate" and "distinct". for I can and do use them interchangeably.
The Father is distinct or separate form the son and Spirit in that the Father is not the Son nor the Spirit. But they all share one absolute Deity.
That is why Peter could say that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God for the Holy Spirit is God, but He is not the Father nor is He the Son.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
no it does not. In the Greek the word for "divine" is the adjective, "θεῖος", but for "God", it is the noun "θεος"
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Sense and knowledge mean nothing on a human level.
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
We cannot and should never relate to and with God on the basis of knowledge and whether it makes sense to us or not! We relate to God as He has revealed Himself in His Word!
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
To me the difference is, "distinct" = "to distinguish one from another"; "separate", = "to be apart".
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And that is a difference without distinction. They are both the exact same word, pronounced the exact same way, but the construct varies slightly to let us know if it a personal noun or adjctive describing a personal noun.
The Father also has θεῖος used o Him in the NT. And John 1:1 θεος is used of the Father and the Word.
And also "θεῖος" occurs only three times in the NT Acts 17:29, 2 Peter 1:3, and 2 Peter 1:4 . As I said they refer to the nature of God as opposed to the person of God.
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