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John 12:31

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Now is the judgment of this world:
    now shall the prince of this world be cast out.'

    (John 12:31)

    Hello there,

    The Holy Spirit was sent at Pentecost to convict the world concerning judgement, because the ruler of this word (Gr. kosmos) has been judged (John 16:11).

    'Nevertheless I tell you the truth;
    .. It is expedient for you that I go away:
    .... for if I go not away,
    ...... the Comforter will not come unto you;
    but if I depart,
    .. I will send Him unto you.
    And when He is come,
    .. He will reprove the world of sin,
    .... and of righteousness,
    ...... and of judgment:
    Of sin, - because they believe not on Me;
    .. Of righteousness, - because I go to My Father, and ye see Me no more;
    .... Of judgment, - because the prince of this world is judged.

    (John 16:8-11)

    * This does not refer to a mere 'spiritual' change in the history of the world. No, this began a process at Pentecost which if Israel had repented, would have resulted in the return of Christ with judgement, and the casting out of Satan, at the end of that period. This, as we know has been postponed, because of Israel's failure to repent, and awaits a day yet to come, as we are told in Revelation 12 and 13. However, This was foreknown of God and gloriously provisioned for.

    * The conflict of the ages continues, but Satan has been sentenced: he can hinder, but he cannot prevent it being carried out. God's will, will be done.

    Praise God! - Praise His Holy Name!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris





     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    Our Lord Jesus was simply talking about His coming crucifixion at that time with His disciples. His death and resurrection would seal the judgment and sentencing of Satan and his angels that rebelled with him, as that was actually ordained of old when God ended Satan's original rebellion back before this world. See Ezekiel 28, Isaiah 14, Isaiah 31, Isaiah 30:33 about Tophet (i.e., lake of fire), Matthew 25:41.

    The casting out is about the events of Revelation 12:7-17, which is still in our near future. As of right now, the devil is still allowed to approach God's throne in order to accuse us, like in the Book of Job.
     
  3. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Well-Known Member

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    We believe the following blog post may shed some further light upon the subject. "Now is the judgment of this world"
     
  4. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Pentecost as the birthday of the church in Acts 2 was truly a seminal event for the nature and understanding of the church in Scripture.
     
  5. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Now is the judgment of this world:
    now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
    "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."
    This he said, signifying what death he should die.'

    (John 12:31-33)

    Thank you, @Harvest 1874,

    I have read the blog you referred me to. It was a blessing - 'Thank You.'

    'Yet that judgment has not yet been exacted, nor 'the prince of this world' been 'cast out'. Now is still the day of salvation. Praise God!

    'And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
    even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    That whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,

    but have eternal life.'
    (John 3:14-15)

    'For God so loved the world,
    .. that He gave His only begotten Son,
    .... that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,
    ...... but have everlasting life.
    For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world;
    .. but that the world through Him might be saved.
    He that believeth on Him is not condemned:
    .. but He that believeth not is condemned already,
    .... because He hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    And this is the condemnation,
    .. that light is come into the world,
    .... and men loved darkness rather than light,
    ...... because their deeds were evil.'

    (John 3:16-19)

    * Thank you for being a source of blessing to me.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  6. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @farouk,

    The church did not begin at Pentecost, though, did it?

    The believing community was added to, yes, but it comprised of Jewish believers: not until many years later were gentile believers grafted in to the Olive tree of Israel, and then for the purpose of making Israel jealous, and bring them to repentance.

    Not until Israel had turned aside into blindness and unbelief was the revelation given to Paul (at the end of the Acts period) concerning the church of the present day. In which Jew and Gentile are equal and united 'in Christ', independent of Israel. Only then was salvation sent to the gentiles, for they would 'hear' it. (Acts 28:28)

    Praise God!

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
  7. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Unless one is Hyper-Dispensationalist, the Church did begin at Pentecost.

    Bullinger was seriously mistaken, and he led many people astray.
     
  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Enoch111,

    That is a serious accusation, which I hope you are able to back up with evidence.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Bullinger taught Christians that the Church did not begin at Pentecost and that water baptism and the Lord's Supper were not necessary for Christians. All of which is false doctrine. See this article:
    Beware of Hyper Dispensationalism

    1. Just one verse from Acts 2:47 proves that he was seriously mistaken.
    Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

    The day of Pentecost after the crucifixion of Christ was an extremely significant day, since (1) the Holy Spirit was "poured out upon all flesh" on that day, (2) the Gospel was preached to thousands of Jews from all over the Roman empire, and (3) about 3,000 Jews were saved and baptized on that day. And it is the Holy Spirit who said after that day
    "the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved".

    2. The term "the church" is used here in two senses (1) the local assembly of believers in Jerusalem and (2) the Body of Christ which has both redeemed Jews and Gentiles through the gift of the Holy Spirit. So we see that shortly after Pentecost, Peter was sent to preach the Gospel to Gentiles, and everyone gathered in the house of Cornelius was saved and added to the Church.

    Textus Receptus/Byzantine Text

    αἰνοῦντες τὸν θεὸν καὶ ἔχοντες χάριν πρὸς ὅλον τὸν λαόν ὁ δὲ κύριος προσετίθει τοὺς σῳζομένους καθ' ἡμέραν τῇ ἐκκλησία (the church).

    This verse was tampered with in the critical texts which read

    αἰνοῦντες τὸν θεὸν καὶ ἔχοντες χάριν πρὸς ὅλον τὸν λαόν. ὁ δὲ κύριος προσετίθει τοὺς σωζομένους καθ' ἡμέραν ἐπὶ τὸ αὐτό (to their number).
    And this is how the modern versions have corrrupted God's truth.
    New International Version
    praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
    New American Standard Bible
    praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved.

    3. Baptism was a commandment of Christ (Mt 28:18-29; Mk 16:15,16), and Christians have been baptized every since Pentecost by immersion. Paul gives us the doctrinal significance of baptism is Romans 6. Church history confirms that baptism by immersion was practiced by Christians.

    4. The Lord's Supper was instituted by Christ, and Christians observed it on the Lord's Day in Scripture, and ever since. The fact that is has not been done away with is that it must be observed "till He come":
    For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. (1 Cor 11:26)
     
  10. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Enoch111,

    Thank you for responding.

    I will not reply to your points 1-4: this is the expression of what you believe, and I thank you for expressing it, but I stand by #6.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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