John 6:66 - Why did many disciples stop following Jesus?

[bbyrd009]

so, for a diff reason than why many disciples turned back, that ends up being the same reason
under the law almost every transgress requires blood
("under the law")

 

[bbyrd009]

Ritualizers?

Tong
R1252

hey, nothing wrong with ritual communion imo ok
until its idolized anyway
it's representative? a commemoration?

so yes, ritualizers

 

[Tong2020]

we are, yes
imo anyway
all the signs are in evidence

So? What's your point?

Tong
R1253

 

[bbyrd009]

So? What's your point?

Tong
R1253

oh, i'd say just be cognizant of it, proceed from that premise
if you then, being evil
dont be in denial of that as a premise

 

[bbyrd009]

ha i guess it seems crazy to think of yourself that way huh

we have this little bargain we made lol

 

[Tong2020]

oh, i'd say just be cognizant of it, proceed from that premise
if you then, being evil
dont be in denial of that as a premise

Do you think the Christian must proceed as such when he is now in Jesus Christ?

Tong
R1254

 

[bbyrd009]

Do you think the Christian must proceed as such when he is now in Jesus Christ?

Tong
R1254

i would say that it is def a sign of that anyway, yes

 

[Philip James]

Hello PW,

Do you believe that when the disciples ate the bread and drank the wine with Jesus during the Passover meal that they were eternally saved at that point in light of the fact that Jesus said, "If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever"?

I'm not sure I understand this question. What do you mean by 'eternally saved' especially when referencing a point in time?

A drowning man is spotted nby a boat which comes over, throws him a line and pulls him into the boat and brings him to shore.... At what point was he saved? When the boat spotted him? When he grabbed the line? When he was brought into the boat? When he reached shore?

In other words, were they born again of the Spirit at that point?

the Spirit had not yet been given.

They ate the bread and drank the wine. So do you believe that this gave them eternal life prior to Jesus dying on the cross and being raised from the dead?

What do you think eternal life is? Is it not Jesus Himself?

If the birth of the Church is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, surely here, at the last supper is its conception.
For God came and wed His people Israel, as He promised He would do. Intimately uniting Himself with them, 'the two made one flesh..' And the fruit of that union?
Every man woman and child that has been baptised into Christ!

Peace be with you!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I'm not sure I understand this question. What do you mean by 'eternally saved' especially when referencing a point in time?

I'm talking about a lost person being saved, becoming a believer--"born again" "of the Spirit," "born of God." I'm talking about salvation--when a lost person is delivered from the kingdom of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of Jesus Christ (Col 1:13).

Maybe the Catholic Church has different terms for salvation, but I'm using biblical terms here.

When the disciples ate the bread and drank the wine that Jesus offered at the Passover meal, did they become saved/"born again" when they partook of the bread and wine?

 

[Philip James]

I'm talking about a lost person being saved, becoming a believer--"born again" "of the Spirit," "born of God." I'm talking about salvation--when a lost person is delivered from the kingdom of darkness and transferred into the kingdom of Jesus Christ (Col 1:13).

Thank you for clarifying. At what point do you think the apostles became believers?
Was Peter not a believer when He said:

Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God."

When the disciples ate the bread and drank the wine that Jesus offered at the Passover meal, did they become saved/"born again" when they partook of the bread and wine?

Imo, the apostles were saved the day Jesus chose them.. (Except for the one who was lost).
They were born of water when they received the baptism of John and born of the Spirit when it was given to them by Jesus.

At the last supper, when Jesus offered Himself as the pascal lamb, they were intimately united with Him and with His sacrifice..

Look at Israel according to the flesh; are not those who eat the sacrifices participants in the altar?

Peace!

 

[Truth1945]

Hi @Philip James

I have a few questions for you, though any of those concerned are welcome as well. I hope you can give your answers. Thanks in advance.

1. Is bread broken and shared among the participants in the Mass? If not, why not bread when that is the proper element Jesus used to represent His body?

2. Is fruit of the vine shared among the participants in the Mass? If not, why not fruit of the vine, when that is the proper element Jesus used to represent His blood?

3. Do those who have eaten the wafer also get to drink of the wine?

4. Upon what you believe, the transubstantiation of the wafer and the wine into the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ, does the wafer and wine becomes imperishable?

Tong
R1233

All of these questions are answered by the Church if you really wanted answers (see link below), but you don't. You want to complain and pretend you're following the Holy Spirit through your own biblical interpretations. You want human evidence because you lack faith in Jesus just like the disciples. To believe is to believe in what Jesus preached, not to mix his words for your own demise.

This post is about my question to you! You never gave me a logical answer! Why did the disciples leave Jesus?

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of the Eucharist

 

[Prayer Warrior]

All of these questions are answered by the Church if you really wanted answers (see link below), but you don't. You want to complain and pretend you're following the Holy Spirit through your own biblical interpretations. You want human evidence because you lack faith in Jesus just like the disciples. To believe is to believe in what Jesus preached, not to mix his words for your own demise.

This post is about my question to you! You never gave me a logical answer! Why did the disciples leave Jesus?

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of the Eucharist

(WOW, Good cop, bad cop, eh??)

I HAVE the answers. They are all in the Word of God!

Judgy, are we? God judges my heart, that I am a believer--in Christ, born again of His Spirit.... His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. By His grace, I have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus Christ, and I will be in heaven. I hope to see you there!

Why would I go to the Catholic Church when I can go to the Word of God?? This is exactly what I have done. And the Holy Spirit, who dwells within me, is guiding me into all truth, just as Jesus said He would.

I believe the Word of God. Your words are of the devil.

 

[Truth1945]

Judgy, are we? God judges my heart, that I am a believer--in Christ, born again of His Spirit.... His Spirit bears witness with my spirit that I am a child of God. By His grace, I have been made righteous and will be in heaven, and I hope to see you there!

Why would I go to the Catholic Church when I can go to the Word of God?? This is exactly what I have done. And the Holy Spirit, who dwells within me, is guiding me into all truth, just as Jesus said He would.

I believe the Word of God. Your words of of the devil.

Many of these replies are very judgy against the Church and my beliefs. Many what to believe what they want to believe. Many seek to be right rather they seeking the truth. Did Jesus start a Church? Where did the Bible come from?

 

[Truth1945]

Also, what did the early Church fathers believe?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Many of these replies are very judgy against the Church and my beliefs. Many what to believe what they want to believe. Many seek to be right rather they seeking the truth. Did Jesus start a Church? Where did the Bible come from?

Hmmm, this sounds just like a friend of mine.

Where did the Bible come from?? Where did the Catholic Church come from??

You can't have it both ways--thinking that the Bible could not possibly be from God--something that He inspired and directed from beginning to end. And yet, thinking that the Catholic Church, with it's unbiblcal doctrines (some, not all), is completely from God!

You are welcome to practice your faith however you see fit. It's not my place to judge you for this.

Get off your high horse and stop judging me!

 

[Truth1945]

Hmmm, this sounds just like a friend of mine.

Where did the Bible come from?? Where did the Catholic Church come from??

You can't have it both ways--thinking that the Bible could not possibly be from God--something that He inspired and directed from beginning to end. And yet, thinking that the Catholic Church, with it's unbiblcal doctrines, is completely from God!

You are welcome to practice your faith however you see fit. I will not judge you for this.

Get off your high horse and stop judging me!

You're allowed to judge and judge people by the fruits. I do not condemn to hell anybody! And I pray we ALL make to heaven including you!!!

History tells us the Bible came from the Catholic Church. They had to vote on thousand of writings that people claimed were inspired by God. There was the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Hebrew, etc... Only the Church had copies of the Bible and very wealthy people. It took months for a person to write out the Bible since there was no printing press until the 1400s. The Word of God came from the Church that he created, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Why did the disciples leave Jesus?

They thought he was speaking literally. Even among unbelievers eating human flesh and drinking blood is what crazy people do.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I do not condemn to hell anybody!

Even if taking Communion somehow saved a person, Protestants do Communion too. So this is really a meaningless argument.

 

[Truth1945]

They thought he was speaking literally. Even among unbelievers eating human flesh and drinking blood is what crazy people do.

Many disciples gave up everything to follow Jesus. Many left their daily jobs, sold all of their possessions, left their families, etc.

Why would the greatest teacher ever to walk the earth allow his very own disciples to leave him based on a misunderstanding? It makes no sense for him to do this. They understood him correctly but lacked in faith.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

History tells us the Bible came from the Catholic Church. They had to vote on thousand of writings that people claimed were inspired by God. There was the Gospel of Peter, the Gospel of Hebrew, etc... Only the Church had copies of the Bible and very wealthy people. It took months for a person to write out the Bible since there was no printing press until the 1400s. The Word of God came from the Church that he created, inspired by the Holy Spirit.

So...who gets the credit for God's Word?? Does He get the credit or man? Sounds like you're giving man the credit.

It's a fact that God used men to write and collate the Bible, but it is of God--HIS WORD! And it's really a miracle that He could use sinful man for this. But this shows His omnipotence and sovereignty, don't you think??