John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH

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michaelvpardo

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Exodus 33
And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The LORD.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.”


Is why God, The Word, made himself sinless unblemished Jesus.
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that the invisible immortal God, who is identified by Christ as "spirit" can look like anything. The people that deny the deity of Christ tend not to answer questions that require a spiritual understanding to reconcile scripture to scripture, and how could they without the Witness of Christ within them?
The best the cults can do is study what the saints have already said and try to fit it into their false doctrine, like pressing a round peg into a square hole.
This is why I think it best not to share spiritually discerned truth with the cults, they can't receive it, they can only distort and corrupt it.
 

Michiah-Imla

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pressing a round peg into a square hole.

I never heard of the trinity or the god-man in the Bible.

There’s no picture graph showing how the trinity works anywhere in scripture.

You give occasion for every cult to exist by allowing unbiblical titles and systems to be created by extracting private meanings from scripture passages.
 

Blue Dragonfly's

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I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the idea that the invisible immortal God, who is identified by Christ as "spirit" can look like anything. The people that deny the deity of Christ tend not to answer questions that require a spiritual understanding to reconcile scripture to scripture, and how could they without the Witness of Christ within them?
The best the cults can do is study what the saints have already said and try to fit it into their false doctrine, like pressing a round peg into a square hole.
This is why I think it best not to share spiritually discerned truth with the cults, they can't receive it, they can only distort and corrupt it.
Agreed. Sometimes they use a hammer and chisel to get that round peg to fit. But everyone that knows round pegs don't actually fit in square holes can see what they did.

With regard to the Exodus verse, God is the holy spirit.
I don't think our limited human consciousness could fully grasp seeing the immensity of that glorious power were it to appear before us.
It would be unlike anything we know to exist in this material realm where we typify our reality.

Say, ''tree'', or read that word and your mind immediately brings forth a tree image.

Say, ''God'', and man-made images we've seen come to mind. They're familiar. Comforting.

Seeing with our own eyes the holy spirit that is God is unimaginable. Probably for God's own reasons.
If we cant look upon his face and live would he let us imagine him as anything but what we imagine in our artistry?
 
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RLT63

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Yes, but Moses asked to see His glory and Jesus is identified as the radiance of His glory. Scripture doesn't tell us the reason for this prohibition, but I suspect it has something to do with the commandment prohibiting images. It's interesting that though many people witnessed Jesus the Christ firsthand, we have no images of Him from any eyewitness. Every picture of the Christ ever produced by an artist is a work of how the artist imagined He looked.
It could be an indication of the Trinity because Jesus said no one has seen God, referring to the Father.
 

michaelvpardo

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I never heard of the trinity or the god-man in the Bible.

There’s no picture graph showing how the trinity works anywhere in scripture.

You give occasion for every cult to exist by allowing unbiblical titles and systems to be created by extracting private meanings from scripture passages.
This is exactly what I was referring to. Spiritual truth can only be discerned by those who have the Holy Spirit, the witness of Christ within them. Spiritual truth isn't arrived at by dissecting a passage like some dead thing, but by comparing scripture to scripture, comparing Spiritual to Spiritual. There is adequate description of the Trinity in scripture if you have His Spirit to open your eyes to it. There is abundant evidence "charted out" for the deity of Christ in scripture if your mind isn't trapped in the flesh with no recourse to the Teacher.
Say what you want, but no one alive in the Spirit will receive it and that fulfills my purpose in discussing anything with you. Thank you for your cooperation.
 

ByGraceThroughFaith

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I never heard of the trinity or the god-man in the Bible.

There’s no picture graph showing how the trinity works anywhere in scripture.

You give occasion for every cult to exist by allowing unbiblical titles and systems to be created by extracting private meanings from scripture passages.

then you use the wrong Bible!
 

michaelvpardo

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It could be an indication of the Trinity because Jesus said no one has seen God, referring to the Father.
Yes, and Jesus, testing a young man, asked him, "why do you call me good?" The cults love that passage and claim that Jesus was denying His divinity rather than seeking an acknowledgement of His person, as He did with His disciples when He asked them, "who do you say I am?"

He knew the rock upon which he would build His church, the good confession, before He posed that question to His disciples, but He couldn't announce it beforehand. He wasn't supposed to give testimony of Himself in order to satisfy the law. Somehow the scholars among the cultists seem to miss the entire point of the requirements of testimony, that by two or three witnesses all matters of the law are established.

I like this passage and can't imagine how the cults twist it to make Christ less than what He is.

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11

This passage actually says that before Jesus was born, He was already in the form of God. How could the preincarnate Christ be found in the form of God without being God.
Then there's the issue of God's name. God is self existent and eternal. God the Father wasn't created, He wasn't born, He had no parent to name Him and is named according to what He chooses to call Himself. Even so, He's given Jesus Christ the name above all (not some) names. If God will not give His glory to another, yet glorified our Lord, how could Jesus be anything other than God in flesh?

The gift of the Holy Spirit and scripture is a sound mind, and in spiritual maturity, the mind of Christ. But what does this imply about the minds of those devoid of His Spirit?
You want to avoid going about telling the unregenerate that they're insane, but that's what scripture implies (and the bizarre reasoning process suggests.)

The cults take what is plainly written and seek for a way to make it mean something else as though God was the deceiver trying to turn us into false witnesses. That should tell anyone that their lord is Satan and not God, and that they dwell in darkness, blind to truth. How does anyone attribute evil and deception to our God and call themselves Christians? The Angels were instructed not to uproot the tares, but we weren't.
 
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michaelvpardo

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Agreed. Sometimes they use a hammer and chisel to get that round peg to fit. But everyone that knows round pegs don't actually fit in square holes can see what they did.

With regard to the Exodus verse, God is the holy spirit.
I don't think our limited human consciousness could fully grasp seeing the immensity of that glorious power were it to appear before us.
It would be unlike anything we know to exist in this material realm where we typify our reality.

Say, ''tree'', or read that word and your mind immediately brings forth a tree image.

Say, ''God'', and man-made images we've seen come to mind. They're familiar. Comforting.

Seeing with our own eyes the holy spirit that is God is unimaginable. Probably for God's own reasons.
If we cant look upon his face and live would he let us imagine him as anything but what we imagine in our artistry?
Jesus said that God the Father is Spirit, but the Holy Spirit has limitations imposed upon Him (if I'm understanding Christ). Jesus said that He, the Holy Spirit, is One like Him, but takes of what is His (Christ's) and gives it to us and that all that is the Father’s is His. I think that this covers the trinity pretty clearly. In that relationship, the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Lord, yet Jesus is called the Son of God because he was begotten of the Holy Spirit. This order of subordination of Spirit to Son to Father is functional in each having their own role or purpose (if you can say that of God), but Jesus acknowledged that the Father is greater than Him if for no other reason than Jesus taking on the limitations of the "Son of Man" and suffering temptation. It is impossible that the Father suffer temptation as He can do whatever He wills.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Father, but with the imposed limitation of interacting with us in time. Time is part of creation, but the Father exists apart from creation in eternity. How can He who exists outside of His creation, interact with that creation except by taking on the limitations of creation and entering it in the person of His Son and His Holy Spirit?

The Trinity is not nearly as complicated as people imagine when you understand that time is part of creation and this truth is revealed in the very first chapter of genesis, when the Lord created the first day. How could there be time without the first night and the first day? I would think that the Revelation of God would be utterly impossible if there were no Trinity (if you hold scripture to be true.)
The problem is that the carnal mind remains "veiled" to scripture until the Holy Spirit lifts the veil and allows us to see His Christ.
 
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ByGraceThroughFaith

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It is not a belief that the 'godhead' is not in Scripture. Sure, sure, it is in a bad trinitarian translation but I think your doctrine ought to be able to stand on what is true and such posts show what a house of cards doctrine it is.

The English word "Godhead" as in Romans 1:20, is from the Greek, θειότης, meaning, "divine nature"

Websters English dictionary defines "Godhead", as "divine nature or essence", Definition of GODHEAD

So the term, like Trinity, is Biblical, as it describes the nature of God.
 
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RLT63

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Yes, and Jesus, testing a young man, asked him, "why do you call me good?" The cults love that passage and claim that Jesus was denying His divinity rather than seeking an acknowledgement of His person, as He did with His disciples when He asked them, "who do you say I am?"

He knew the rock upon which he would build His church, the good confession, before He posed that question to His disciples, but He couldn't announce it beforehand. He wasn't supposed to give testimony of Himself in order to satisfy the law. Somehow the scholars among the cultists seem to miss the entire point of the requirements of testimony, that by two or three witnesses all matters of the law are established.

I like this passage and can't imagine how the cults twist it to make Christ less than what He is.

"Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11

This passage actually says that before Jesus was born, He was already in the form of God. How could the preincarnate Christ be found in the form of God without being God.
Then there's the issue of God's name. God is self existent and eternal. God the Father wasn't created, He wasn't born, He had no parent to name Him and is named according to what He chooses to call Himself. Even so, He's given Jesus Christ the name above all (not some) names. If God will not give His glory to another, yet glorified our Lord, how could Jesus be anything other than God in flesh?

The gift of the Holy Spirit and scripture is a sound mind, and in spiritual maturity, the mind of Christ. But what does this imply about the minds of those devoid of His Spirit?
You want to avoid going about telling the unregenerate that they're insane, but that's what scripture implies (and the bizarre reasoning process suggests.)

The cults take what is plainly written and seek for a way to make it mean something else as though God was the deceiver trying to turn us into false witnesses. That should tell anyone that their lord is Satan and not God, and that they dwell in darkness, blind to truth. How does anyone attribute evil and deception to our God and call themselves Christians? The Angels were instructed not to uproot the tares, but we weren't.
Yes to listen to them you need to be a Greek scholar to understand the plain sense of the Bible. It's as though I have an apple and they are giving proof that it is an orange. They make a strong case but it doesn't change the apple into an orange
 
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Dropship

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Which is the right Bible?


I like the KJV because it's fearless, unlike some pol-correct watered-down modern versions.
However I do glance at the NIV regularly to cross-reference things with the KJV, they're a good solid double-act..:)
 

Michiah-Imla

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Read philippians chapter 2 verses 5-8

Jesus Christ The God-Man

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God” (Philippians 2:5-6)

So Christ was in the form of God.

Okay.

It didn’t say he was God or the “god-man”.

And that information in that link is just the musings of men. Not interested in debates about what the Greek says.

Satan loves to debate about what the scriptures are really saying…