John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

“Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God” (Philippians 2:5-6)

So Christ was in the form of God.

Okay.

It didn’t say he was God or the “god-man”.

And that information in that link is just the musings of men. Not interested in debates about what the Greek says.

Satan loves to debate about what the scriptures are really saying…

The Greek word translated form in some English versions is rightly rendered as "the very nature of", in the NIV. Jesus is eternally Almighty God and at His Incarnation took upon Himself the very nature of humans while retaining His Divine Nature

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

The King James Bible is all I use.

No god-man in there…

Also

The God-Man in Isaiah 9:6-7

 

[Davy]

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins…Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things” (verses 24, 28. KJV)

In these two verses, Jesus says, that if we do not believe that He is “I AM”, that we will die in our sins.

Firstly, Bible Versions like the KJV, are quite wrong when they translate the Greek, “εγω ειμι”, by “I am he”. The word “he” is in italics showing that it is not in the Greek. So, why did they insert this?

Jesus uses “εγω ειμι” three times in this chapter of John’s Gospel. Twice in the above verses, and once in verse 58.

What exactly does Jesus mean, especially in verse 24, where He says, that people who did not believe that He is “εγω ειμι”, would die in their sins? This is the same as saying that these will not be saved, and end up in eternal punishment. Clearly Jesus says what He does, as a warning.

In Matthew 14, when Jesus came to His Disciples “walking on the sea” (26), and the Disciples became “troubled” by what they were seeing. Jesus reassures them by saying, “ But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid” (27). The words in English, “it is I”, are in the Greek, “εγω ειμι”, I AM!. In John chapter 18, when they came to arrest Jesus, He said to them “εγω ειμι” (5), then in verse 6 we read this response from those who heard this, “As soon then as he had said unto them, εγω ειμι, they went backward, and fell to the ground”

But, what does Jesus mean in John 8:24, by the words: “if you believe not that “εγω ειμι””?

There can be no doubt, that Jesus here, as He does in verse 58, claim for Himself Absolute Deity, that is, YHWH. For He has in mind the Words Spoken to Moses in Exodus chapter 3, where we read, “’Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh”, which is best translated from the Hebrew grammar:

“and God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM…I AM hath sent me unto you”

(Dr A Benisch; Jewish School and Family Bible, Vol. II)

“And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’… I AM hath sent me unto you.’.’”

(The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, A New Translation. The Jewish Publication Society of America. 5677-1917)

“And God said unto Moses: ‘I am that I am’… I am hath sent me unto you.’

(Hebrew-English Tanakh, The Jewish Bible, Varda Books. Jewish Publication)

The words in the Greek Version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint (LXX), is important:

“Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν”, literally, “I am the Existing One”

The Jews in Jesus’ time would have clearly understood what He was saying. In fact, in verse 59 we read, “they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him”. Stoning was because they supposed that Jesus was here blaspheming, by ascribing to Himself, the very Name of YHWH.

In the account of the Burning Bush in Exodus chapter 3, we read in verse 2, “And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush”. In verse 4 it says, “So when YHWH saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!””. Then, in verse 6 we read, “Moreover He said, “I am (Ἐγώ εἰμι. LXX) the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God”. Then in verse 7, “And YHWH said…”. And, 11, “But Moses said to God”. Then we have the famous Words Spoken to Moses in verse 14, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you”. And verse 15, Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations”. In verse 12 we read God telling Moses, “and He said, certainly I will be with you”. The words “I will be”, are the same “’Ehyeh”, used in verse 14, “I AM”.

It is very interesting that all of the above in Exodus 3, is not about God the Father as YHWH, but, “מַלְאַךְ יהוה” that is “The Angel of YHWH”, or, “Messenger of YHWH”, Who is not only a distinct Person from YHWH, as One sent by YHWH, but Himself also YHWH, and all of the Divine Names in the passage of Exodus 3. For those who honestly want to know what the Bible actually Teaches, and not rely on their own ideas of what the Bible should say. It is very clear, that there is more than One Person, Who is called YHWH, and distinct from each other. The One is the Sender, and the One is Sent, showing that they cannot be One and the same Person.

It is very clear, that what Jesus Christ does say in John 8:24, can only mean that He is claiming for Himself, to be YHWH. The evidence of Scripture is clear to this fact, but there will still be those, who oppose the Deity of Jesus Christ, who will still fight against to very Word of God, to their own destruction!

Jesus Christ cannot be YHWH, as we see that the Bible says that He IS, and be anything less than God the Father. The very Name YHWH means, Uncreated, Unchanging, Eternal. Which is true for God The Father, God the Son, and God The Holy Spirit. The Eternal, Unchanging, Triune God!

That is all SPECULATION while trying to act like you have knowledge of Biblical Hebrew and Greek, when you're actually wrong about GOD's Name in Scripture.

In The Old Testament, there is an ACROSTIC that spells GOD's Name, and it ain't got no 'W' in it. So it is NOT YHWH.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

That is all SPECULATION while trying to act like you have knowledge of Biblical Hebrew and Greek, when you're actually wrong about GOD's Name in Scripture.

In The Old Testament, there is an ACROSTIC that spells GOD's Name, and it ain't got no 'W' in it. So it is NOT YHWH.

You sound very pompous

NAMES OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[Davy]

You sound very pompous

NAMES OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Sorry, no Jewish encyclopedia is enough proof. Go FIND the Acrostic written in God's Word.


For those not aware of what an 'acrostic' is, here's a basic definition...

"A poem, word puzzle, or other composition in which certain letters in each line form a word or words." (from Oxford Reference)

God's Name is hidden as an acrostic in The Old Testament. And because of the POMPOUS attitude of those who 'THINK' they know here, I will not divulge just which Old Testament Book is where the acrostic appears. But I will say this, it is in an Old Testament Book where His Name is not mentioned in the outward text of the Book. There is only 1 Old Testament Book where God is not mentioned in Scripture reading. I will even go so far as to say it is a post-captivity Book. So even though God is not mentioned in the Scripture reading, because of Judah's rebelliousness against Him and thus He sent them into captivity to Babylon, He still included His Name in an acrostic within the Book.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Sorry, no Jewish encyclopedia is enough proof. Go FIND the Acrostic written in God's Word.


For those not aware of what an 'acrostic' is, here's a basic definition...

"A poem, word puzzle, or other composition in which certain letters in each line form a word or words." (from Oxford Reference)

God's Name is hidden as an acrostic in The Old Testament. And because of the POMPOUS attitude of those who 'THINK' they know here, I will not divulge just which Old Testament Book is where the acrostic appears. But I will say this, it is in an Old Testament Book where His Name is not mentioned in the outward text of the Book. There is only 1 Old Testament Book where God is not mentioned in Scripture reading. I will even go so far as to say it is a post-captivity Book. So even though God is not mentioned in the Scripture reading, because of Judah's rebelliousness against Him and thus He sent them into captivity to Babylon, He still included His Name in an acrostic within the Book.

I have no time to respond to people like you as it is clear that you don't know what you are talking about

Your so called knowledge of Hebrew is a joke

 

[Davy]

I have no time to respond to people like you as it is clear that you don't know what you are talking about

Your so called knowledge of Hebrew is a joke

And yet... there you are, responding!

Go ahead, make up some more garbage to try and exalt yourself. Can't prove what you say by Scripture, which is why you defaulted to Jewish encyclopedias, so now your only recourse is to attack my credibility! In a public debate, that means an automatic loss on your part.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

And yet... there you are, responding!

Go ahead, make up some more garbage to try and exalt yourself. Can't prove what you say by Scripture, which is why you defaulted to Jewish encyclopedias, so now your only recourse is to attack my credibility! In a public debate, that means an automatic loss on your part.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Jesus said that God the Father is Spirit, but the Holy Spirit has limitations imposed upon Him (if I'm understanding Christ). Jesus said that He, the Holy Spirit, is One like Him, but takes of what is His (Christ's) and gives it to us and that all that is the Father’s is His. I think that this covers the trinity pretty clearly. In that relationship, the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Lord, yet Jesus is called the Son of God because he was begotten of the Holy Spirit. This order of subordination of Spirit to Son to Father is functional in each having their own role or purpose (if you can say that of God), but Jesus acknowledged that the Father is greater than Him if for no other reason than Jesus taking on the limitations of the "Son of Man" and suffering temptation. It is impossible that the Father suffer temptation as He can do whatever He wills.
I believe that the Holy Spirit is the Father, but with the imposed limitation of interacting with us in time. Time is part of creation, but the Father exists apart from creation in eternity. How can He who exists outside of His creation, interact with that creation except by taking on the limitations of creation and entering it in the person of His Son and His Holy Spirit?

The Trinity is not nearly as complicated as people imagine when you understand that time is part of creation and this truth is revealed in the very first chapter of genesis, when the Lord created the first day. How could there be time without the first night and the first day? I would think that the Revelation of God would be utterly impossible if there were no Trinity (if you hold scripture to be true.)
The problem is that the carnal mind remains "veiled" to scripture until the Holy Spirit lifts the veil and allows us to see His Christ.

Or unless we take God at his word and realize there is one God , and besides him there is no savior.

 

[Angelina]

Matthew 24:36.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Or unless we take God at his word and realize there is one God , and besides him there is no savior.

As a child the verse where God identified Himself as the only Savior actually disturbed my belief in Christ, because my simple and carnal mind could only see contradiction. I continued reading scripture for many years unable to reconcile the person of Christ to the God of the Old Testament scriptures without really understanding even the simplest spiritual truths. It wasn't until I was 39 years old that a coworker, a faithful brother in the Lord explained the theology of the gospel as I'd heard it from a street evangelist. It was only then when I accepted Jesus as my LORD and Savior, that He opened my eyes to see Him in the Old Testament. It was only then when apparent contradiction became reconciled through the teaching of His Spirit. While scholarship is admirable, especially in a teacher, it by no means reveals truth beyond what is already revealed, taught, and believed. While my faith is not based solely upon my experience, my experience confirms scripture in every aspect.

 

[Wrangler]

The Greek word translated form in some English versions is rightly rendered as "the very nature of", in the NIV. Jesus is eternally Almighty God and at His Incarnation took upon Himself the very nature of humans while retaining His Divine Nature

Yet, you continue to draw ludicrous conclusions while denying there actually is no Scripture that states what you claim. There is no Scripture that states 'Jesus Christ IS YHWH' or 'Jesus is eternally Almighty God.' The simple reason for this is because Jesus is not anyone but a servant of YHWH, our Father, Anointed by YHWH as the Son of God (which is emphatically NOT God the Son), meaning YHWH gave his servant all authority in heaven and Earth.

While we can admit a verse here or there COULD be interpretted the trinitarian way, you deny there are more valid, non-trinitarian ways to interpret unitarian text. It is highly peculiar that a story about apples, that the author says is about apples, is said to provide the basis to claim it is a story about oranges. The Sh'ma clearly states God is 1, not 3-in-1.

The 1C says to have no other gods (including the trinitarian god) before me (singular). And this begs the question of what is Biblically more important:
A. 1 Timothy 1:17 (NLT) All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He (singular) is the eternal King, the unseen one (singular) who never dies (proving he is not Jesus, who died); he (singular) alone (singular) is God. Amen. (emphasis added)
B. Divide glory, even among God’s servants (explicitly stated to include Jesus @ Acts 3:13)?

 

[michaelvpardo]

I always wondered about that because a few verses later God says "No man can see my face and live."
Exo 33:20

And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21

And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22

And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23

And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

I didn't mention my doctrinal perspective on Exodus 33:20.
It occurred to me (or I was taught by the Lord) that those who "see" Christ revealed in tbe Old Testament are born again believers with His Spirit. The Apostle Paul speaks to us who believe as being crucified with Christ, dead to self and alive to Him. If we see Exodus 33:20 in that light, the verse is easily reconciled. We even see passages in the prophets where the prophet, upon encountering God, falls as dead, but is lifted up and instructed. This is also a picture of our salvation experience, dead in sin, then raised up to new life in Christ Jesus.

16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.
2 Corinthians 5:16

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

The Greek word translated form in some English versions is rightly rendered as "the very nature of", in the NIV. Jesus is eternally Almighty God and at His Incarnation took upon Himself the very nature of humans while retaining His Divine Nature

You'll not reach Jehovah Witnesses, nor Muslims for that matter. Muslims insist Isa,Jesus, was a mere man appointed as yet another prophet of Allah.

When someone insists Jesus was not God despite all evidence to the contrary, there comes a time when we have to concede such people are not in Christ. They cannot ever be so when denying Jesus divine nature that makes salvation possible through him.

Their Eisegesis does not save.

 

[BeyondET]

Matthew 24:36.

Does the Holy Spirit know?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yet, you continue to draw ludicrous conclusions while denying there actually is no Scripture that states what you claim. There is no Scripture that states 'Jesus Christ IS YHWH' or 'Jesus is eternally Almighty God.' The simple reason for this is because Jesus is not anyone but a servant of YHWH, our Father, Anointed by YHWH as the Son of God (which is emphatically NOT God the Son), meaning YHWH gave his servant all authority in heaven and Earth.

While we can admit a verse here or there COULD be interpretted the trinitarian way, you deny there are more valid, non-trinitarian ways to interpret unitarian text. It is highly peculiar that a story about apples, that the author says is about apples, is said to provide the basis to claim it is a story about oranges. The Sh'ma clearly states God is 1, not 3-in-1.

The 1C says to have no other gods (including the trinitarian god) before me (singular). And this begs the question of what is Biblically more important:
A. 1 Timothy 1:17 (NLT) All honor and glory to God forever and ever! He (singular) is the eternal King, the unseen one (singular) who never dies (proving he is not Jesus, who died); he (singular) alone (singular) is God. Amen. (emphasis added)
B. Divide glory, even among God’s servants (explicitly stated to include Jesus @ Acts 3:13)?

You continue to argue your unbiblical nonsense on here even though I have shown MANY TIMES that you are WRONG

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

You'll not reach Jehovah Witnesses, nor Muslims for that matter. Muslims insist Isa,Jesus, was a mere man appointed as yet another prophet of Allah.

When someone insists Jesus was not God despite all evidence to the contrary, there comes a time when we have to concede such people are not in Christ. They cannot ever be so when denying Jesus divine nature that makes salvation possible through him.

Their Eisegesis does not save.

The Truth as taught in the Bible is the Infallible Inerrant Word of Almighty God, and is very much Alive and able to convince and convert. I have no doubt that the Lord does use human reasoning that is from His Word to convict and save

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

You continue to argue your unbiblical nonsense on here even though I have shown MANY TIMES that you are WRONG

Why would any Christian argue the Bible isn't true to its word?

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Did God convict that one,anyone, who states Jesus was not God? When they already profess to know God.

The Truth as taught in the Bible is the Infallible Inerrant Word of Almighty God, and is very much Alive and able to convince and convert. I have no doubt that the Lord does use human reasoning that is from His Word to convict and save

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Why would any Christian argue the Bible isn't true to its word?

There are Christians and there are christians