John Calvin and Calvinism.

[Ronald Nolette]

Let them keep going long enough and their heresy, and extremely low view of God, eventually shows itself.

Which is why we must be diligent to lead them away from this! Nothing worse to the heart than to see a fellow believer captured by false doctrine.

 

[theefaith]

Because they have the SAME father. Since Jesus and his brothers did not have the same father, that only leaves you one option.... This is not rocket science.

there are two options Mary ain’t one of them!

the children of Joseph by a prior marriage or the cousins of Jesus the children of Joseph’s brother
I prefer this one! But it don’t matter to me as long as they are not children of Mary mother of God ever virgin queen of heaven and earth!

hebrew culture any relative can be called brother

 

[praise_yeshua]

why not?

It’s in the Bible!

gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

marrige!

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.

No sex in the garden!

That is a rather silly equation.....

1. Eve was literally taken from Adam. Literally, flesh of his flesh....It is rather poor hermeneutics to take such a fact and apply it to the union of a husband and wife now.

2. Just because Genesis 4:1 says that Adam "knew his wife" doesn't mean that was the very FIRST TIME.... he had sex with Eve.

You're full of assumptions that you can't possible prove to be true.

 

[theefaith]

That is a rather silly equation.....

1. Eve was literally taken from Adam. Literally, flesh of his flesh....It is rather poor hermeneutics to take such a fact and apply it to the union of a husband and wife now.

2. Just because Genesis 4:1 says that Adam "knew his wife" doesn't mean that was the very FIRST TIME.... he had sex with Eve.

You're full of assumptions that you can't possible prove to be true.

the Bible alone is you’re standard not mine!

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20



Jesus is the truth!

Jn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

To know the truth it is required to know Jesus Christ!

The truth is not some thing but somebody! Jesus Christ!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Like a good sincere Calvinist, you didn't deal with what I said. You claim Calvinism. That speaks for itself. Your brain is another person's brain. When know those people because they always like to share the intimate details of their thoughts of how God hates the vast majority of humanity.

Well God does- too bad you don't pay attention!

JOhn 3:36.

I can't deal with you r lies is correct. You make presumptive false claims of what I believe and then try to twist out of admitting it by your convoluted logic.

If you bothered to ask questions instead of making assumptions, you could learn instead of sounding similar to an ignoramus!

 

[reformed1689]

the children of Joseph by a prior marriage or the cousins of Jesus the children of Joseph’s brother
I prefer this one! But it don’t matter to me as long as they are not children of Mary mother of God ever virgin queen of heaven and earth!

Yeah but you don't get that from the text. Try again.

 

[theefaith]

Yeah but you don't get that from the text. Try again.

I get it from the text

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

 

[reformed1689]

I get it from the text

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

You also do not get from the text those are the brothers and sisters being referred to. You can twist it all you want but dude, Mary was not a perpetual virgin. It even says her and Joseph had relations after Jesus was born.

 

[theefaith]

You also do not get from the text those are the brothers and sisters being referred to. You can twist it all you want but dude, Mary was not a perpetual virgin. It even says her and Joseph had relations after Jesus was born.

where?

 

[theefaith]

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well God does- too bad you don't pay attention!

JOhn 3:36.

I can't deal with you r lies is correct. You make presumptive false claims of what I believe and then try to twist out of admitting it by your convoluted logic.

If you bothered to ask questions instead of making assumptions, you could learn instead of sounding similar to an ignoramus!

Like I said. You share a brain with Calvin. I know what Calvin said. I don't need to ask you any questions at all. I've known the mind of Calvin for a very long time....

 

[PinSeeker]

never said she was God

But that's the implication of the Catholic beliefs concerning Mary.

no the ark is actually a type of Mary

That's the implication of what I was saying, and is absolutely not the case. There are a myriad of types and shadows of Jesus in the Old Testament, but no type or shadow of Mary. As the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." Jesus is the Word of God (John 1), not Mary, and not Jesus and Mary.

Mary is the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in this temple for 9 months and it cannot be used for a ordinary purpose

Not the case at all. Like I said, this is very Marian, and very Catholic, and very wrong. Jesus Himself was ~ and is ~ the Temple, as we see in John 2, when He, speaking of Himself, says, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months...

She was certainly pregnant with Him for, yes, nine months, and then, yes, He was born of a woman. He became in every way like we are ~ and subsequently was "in every respect tempted as we are, yet remained without sin" (Hebrews 4:15) ~ "emptying Himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men... (a)nd being found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Philippians 2:7-8). This is the Gospel. Thanks be to God.

Doing this for our sake, as Jesus did, was certainly no ordinary thing, but quite extraordinary, to put it mildly. But the means taken ~ being born of a woman, was as ordinary as it gets, as that's what we all experience. So, ordinary ~ natural, worldly ~ means, but extraordinary ~ supernatural, not worldly ~ in effect. God uses ordinary things, even ordinary people (Mary, in this case) used to produce the extraordinary (even Jesus in His human form, and His salvation). Again, thanks be to God.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Titus]

The Greek in Matthew 1:19 says
Joseph now the husband of her.
Now is the Greek word de.
Read Matthew 1:19 in the Greek on Biblehub.
You will see that Joseph was de(now) the husband of Mary.

They were already married.

 

[Pierac]

The real ignorance in this post is you taking Calvin out of context. The Apostles had been told repeatedly by Christ that his kingdom was not of this world. That was Calvin's point. They were still expecting an earthly takeover but that was not the purpose. So yes, in that sense they were being ignorant, meaning, they ignored his teachings.

Rev 20:2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,

So Mr reformed1689 is Satan still the god of this world or in prison? Or as you believe Jesus already returned in glory...and your living the dream? Please... The Coming Kingdom is not and has not arrived... What part of Act 1:6 Did you not understand.... So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
……… it was not at that time... and it's not yet happened!!!
Paul

 

[theefaith]

But that's the implication of the Catholic beliefs concerning Mary.


That's the implication of what I was saying, and is absolutely not the case. There are a myriad of types and shadows of Jesus in the Old Testament, but no type or shadow of Mary. As the writer of Hebrews says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." Jesus is the Word of God (John 1), not Mary, and not Jesus and Mary.


Not the case at all. Like I said, this is very Marian, and very Catholic, and very wrong. Jesus Himself was ~ and is ~ the Temple, as we see in John 2, when He, speaking of Himself, says, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”


She was certainly pregnant with Him for, yes, nine months, and then, yes, He was born of a woman. He became in every way like we are ~ and subsequently was "in every respect tempted as we are, yet remained without sin" (Hebrews 4:15) ~ "emptying Himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men... (a)nd being found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross" (Philippians 2:7-8). This is the Gospel. Thanks be to God.

Doing this for our sake, as Jesus did, was certainly no ordinary thing, but quite extraordinary, to put it mildly. But the means taken ~ being born of a woman, was as ordinary as it gets, as that's what we all experience. So, ordinary ~ natural, worldly ~ means, but extraordinary ~ supernatural, not worldly ~ in effect. God uses ordinary things, even ordinary people (Mary, in this case) used to produce the extraordinary (even Jesus in His human form, and His salvation). Again, thanks be to God.

Grace and peace to you.

and Jesus came thru Mary!

The holy spirit could only overshadow her if she is immaculate, holy , and consecrated to God!

Ark of the New Covenant!

Mary, ever virgin, mother of God!

Ex 40:34 Then a cloud covered the tent of the congregation, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle.

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.



2 Sam 6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the Lord of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims.

Lk 1:39 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;



2 Sam 6:3 And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart.

4 And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark.

5 And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals.

2 Sam 6:16 And as the ark of the Lord came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the Lord;

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:



2 Sam 6:9 And David was afraid of the Lord that day, and said, How shall the ark of the Lord come to me?

Lk 1:42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.

43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?



2 Sam 6:11 And the ark of the Lord continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the Lord blessed Obededom, and all his household.

Lk 1:56 And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.



2 Sam 6:12 And it was told king David, saying, The Lord hath blessed the house of Obededom, and all that pertaineth unto him, because of the ark of God. So David went and brought up the ark of God from the house of Obededom into the city of David with gladness.

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1: 67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying…

her existence her soul magnifies the Lord! Lk 1:46

full of grace lk 1:28
Lord is with Her

found our salvation lk 1:40

mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

the queen mother!

 

[theefaith]

The old is fulfilled in the new!

Son of David the king: royalty!

Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

Matt 12:23
Matt 15:22
Matt 20:30
Matt 20:31
Matt 21:9-15 etc.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

House of David the king:

Lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Received the kingdom of David:

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Christ is King, Mary must be queen!

Only a queen can bear a king!

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.

30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God.

Mary is mother of mercy and the throne of grace!
heb 4:16

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen!
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And Jesus is the king of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints, so Mary is queen of heaven & earth & all the angels & saints!

so Mary too is the fruit of the merits, virtues, & graces provided by Christ! Lk 1:47 Mary also saved by God



2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands

Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.
Crown of stars = queen Mary

 

[Pierac]

Kind of depends on what you understand Calvin to be saying by "foolish." Basically, they're asking a question that He had just, many times over in the course of the previous three years, shown to be borne of little understanding. In that sense it was foolish. And that's what Calvin was saying. Yeah, the passage of time, even five centuries, does not render something untrue, but reading something written in the 15th century as if it was written yesterday and not understanding the antiquated language of 500 years ago can certainly bring about a wrong understanding, and that seems to be your mistake here.

Grace and peace to you.

Silly Child... they were asking a question... NOT... based on the years they spent with Jesus as he walked the earth with them! They were asking after he rose from the dead and spent 40 days talking about the kingdom...

Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Just like Calvin.... you fail to see the difference!

Read 3 more verses... child!!

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

Stop defending that which you do not understand... and seek the truth...
Paul

 

[Pierac]

The real ignorance in this post is you taking Calvin out of context. The Apostles had been told repeatedly by Christ that his kingdom was not of this world. That was Calvin's point. They were still expecting an earthly takeover but that was not the purpose. So yes, in that sense they were being ignorant, meaning, they ignored his teachings.

Silly Child... they were asking a question... NOT... based on the years they spent with Jesus as he walked the earth with them! They were asking after he rose from the dead and spent 40 days talking about the kingdom...

Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Just like Calvin.... you fail to see the difference!

Read 3 more verses... child!!

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

Stop defending that which you do not understand... and seek the truth...
Paul

 

[reformed1689]

Silly Child... they were asking a question... NOT... based on the years they spent with Jesus as he walked the earth with them! They were asking after he rose from the dead and spent 40 days talking about the kingdom...

Act 1:3 To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Just like Calvin.... you fail to see the difference!

Read 3 more verses... child!!

Act 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

Stop defending that which you do not understand... and seek the truth...
Paul

You realize that nothing you said in this post changed anything that I said right? And I'm not a child.

 

[reformed1689]

So Mr reformed1689 is Satan still the god of this world or in prison? Or as you believe Jesus already returned in glory...and your living the dream? Please... The Coming Kingdom is not and has not arrived... What part of Act 1:6 Did you not understand.... So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

Satan is not the god of anything if, by that you mean he has power and authority over something. And you have no idea what you are talking about.