"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

[Marymog]

I think that, even if he knew what the CC 'truly believes', he would (hopefully) 'stay in his anti-Catholic mindset'.

Thank you TT.

You said that hopefully he would stay in his anti-Catholic mindset.

Are there any other Christian brothers and sisters that you would put in the same category that it is ok to be against? Anti-Baptist, anti-Lutheran, anti-Mormon etc. etc???

Curious Mary

 

[tabletalk]

Thank you TT.

You said that hopefully he would stay in his anti-Catholic mindset.

Are there any other Christian brothers and sisters that you would put in the same category that it is ok to be against? Anti-Baptist, anti-Lutheran, anti-Mormon etc. etc???

Curious Mary

Curious Mary:
I don't believe the CC is a Christian church, but I assume that many of its members will be saved.
So, I am anti-Catholic Church.

 

[Marymog]

Curious Mary:
I don't believe the CC is a Christian church, but I assume that many of its members will be saved.
So, I am anti-Catholic Church.

Yup.....I knew that already. However, you didn’t answer the question: Are there any other (beside Catholics) Christian brothers and sisters that you think it is ok to be against?

New question based on your beliefs: Are there any other churches that you think are NOT Christian Churches even though they proclaim Jesus as their Lord and Savior???

Patient Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's symbolic, Jesuit Dead Bread. "And the woman (the Whore of Revelation 17) is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the Earth."

The city is Rome and the woman whore is none other than the Whore of Babylon which is headquartered right there in Vatican City, the one where your silly Christ-wannabe pope-nothing runs his mouth denouncing walls as un-Christian while he comfortably sits behind the 40 foot walls of the Vatican.

Soooooo - by YOUR idiotic estimation - Peter and Paul were "evil" for trying to build up the Church in Rome.

Listen, Einstein - the Whore sits on the SEVEN HILLS of pagan Rome.
Vatican Hill is on the OTHER side of the Tiber river. This isn't rocket science . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

They believe the bread is the literal body of Christ and the wine is literal blood.

No - we don't.
WHO told you this - and why do you keep spewing these moronic lies??

 

[CoreIssue]

No - we don't.
WHO told you this - and why do you keep spewing these moronic lies??

You tried up hide by arguing Christ is present in the wine and bread.

Catholicism teaches Transubstantiation. The bread and wine only retains the appearance of bread
and wine. But it is his body and blood.

 

[Phoneman777]

Soooooo - by YOUR idiotic estimation - Peter and Paul were "evil" for trying to build up the Church in Rome.

Silly papist Jesuit Dead Bread, no, by a correct understanding of prophecy it is concluded by millions of great Protestant Reformers of whom I am not worthy to stand in the same room, that John saw in vision many years after Paul and Peter tried to establish Christianity in Rome the papacy, which is the apostate catholic church represented by the "Whore" riding upon and controlling a "beast", which is the state...and lo and behold, if history didn't pan out precisely as John predicted it would according to the never failing word of prophecy!

Listen, Einstein - the Whore sits on the SEVEN HILLS of pagan Rome. Vatican Hill is on the OTHER side of the Tiber river. This isn't rocket science . . .

I'd expect a papist like you to know that those puny 100 acres of Vatican City is a rather recent development, Jesuit Dead Bread The authority and dominion of the papacy of old was regarded by all to encompass the entire city of Rome and beyond (even today, those pathetic homosexual deviants claim dominion over the entire world) and it is that papacy which John saw in vision, before Berthier inflicted that deadly wound in 1798 A.D.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You tried up hide by arguing Christ is present in the wine and bread.

Catholicism teaches Transubstantiation. The bread and wine only retains the appearance of bread
and wine. But it is his body and blood.

You are preaching CONsubstantiation - which is not what the Church has taught for 2000 years.

For 2000 years, the Church has taught that the bread and wine BECOME the Body and Blood of Christ. Although the appearances of bread and wine remain - they are NO LONGER bread and wine, but the Body and Blood of Christ.

I'll let the Apostle John's pupil, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch explain:
Ignatius of Antioch
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).


St. Augustine said:
Augustine
I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord's table, which you now look upon and of which you last night were made participants. You ought to know that you have received what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ, That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).

What you see is the bread and the chalice, that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith, yet faith does not desire instruction (ibid. 272).

 

[CoreIssue]

You are preaching CONsubstantiation - which is not what the Church has taught for 2000 years.

For 2000 years, the Church has taught that the bread and wine BECOME the Body and Blood of Christ. Although the appearances of bread and wine remain - they are NO LONGER bread and wine, but the Body and Blood of Christ.

I'll let the Apostle John's pupil, Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch explain:
Ignatius of Antioch
Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).


St. Augustine said:
Augustine
I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord's table, which you now look upon and of which you last night were made participants. You ought to know that you have received what you are going to receive, and what you ought to receive daily. That bread which you see on the altar having been sanctified by the word of God is the body of Christ, That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).

What you see is the bread and the chalice, that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith, yet faith does not desire instruction (ibid. 272).

Roman Catholicism has not existed for 2000 years.

And what you're saying does not agree with anything I've read.

The Eucharist and the Mass | Catholics Come Home

 

[BreadOfLife]

Silly papist Jesuit Dead Bread, no, by a correct understanding of prophecy it is concluded by millions of great Protestant Reformers of whom I am not worthy to stand in the same room, that John saw in vision many years after Paul and Peter tried to establish Christianity in Rome the papacy, which is the apostate catholic church represented by the "Whore" riding upon and controlling a "beast", which is the state...and lo and behold, if history didn't pan out precisely as John predicted it would according to the never failing word of prophecy!
I'd expect a papist like you to know that those puny 100 acres of Vatican City is a rather recent development, Jesuit Dead Bread The authority and dominion of the papacy of old was regarded by all to encompass the entire city of Rome and beyond (even today, those pathetic homosexual deviants claim dominion over the entire world) and it is that papacy which John saw in vision, before Berthier inflicted that deadly wound in 1798 A.D.

Many of your Protestant scholars have LONG abandoned this idiotic teaching in the face of Scriptural evidence.
Shame that YOU'RE still wallowing in the cesspool of confusion.

Once again, in your abject ignorance, you conflate the "Whore" with Christ's Church.
Time for a little Bible, geography and history lesson, Einstein . . .

Those "Whore" can't be the Catholic Church because she is referred to as a "Great City".
I realize the level of ignorance I'm dealing with here - but let me remind you that Vatican city didn't exist during John's lifetime. Besides - Vatican Hill is NOT one of the Seven Hills of Rome - as I have repeatedly shown you.

Ummmmm, by the way - Jerusalem ALSO sits on SEVEN HILLS,:
Scopus
Nob
Mount of Corruption
Old Mount Zion
Ophel
Rock
New Mount Zion

When John wrote Revelation - Jerusalem had a lot of power over "many kings" of the earth. Jerusalem was the global center for worship of God. It was also an international center of commerce.

Isaiah 1:21 flat-out tells us that Jerusalem - the "Faithful City" has become a HARLOT (Whore):
Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become a HARLOT! she that was full of justice! righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers.

SO - we have established that "Babylon" is pagan Rome
We have the "Faithful City" (Jerusalem)
We have the "Great City" with power over kings
We have a City on SEVEN HILLS
She is DRUNK on the blood of Gods holy ones
She is full of MURDERERS (Isaiah 1:21)
She is in cahoots with Rome against the Early Church (Acts 8:1-3, 9:4-5)
We have - JERUSALEM.

In your complete ignorance - YOU'VE been barking up the WRONG tree, Einstein . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Roman Catholicism has not existed for 2000 years.
And what you're saying does not agree with anything I've read.

The Eucharist and the Mass | Catholics Come Home

First of all - what is "Roman Catholicism"??
Secondly - WHAT part of what I told you does NOT agree with what you've "read"??

 

[tabletalk]

Yup.....I knew that already. However, you didn’t answer the question: Are there any other (beside Catholics) Christian brothers and sisters that you think it is ok to be against?

New question based on your beliefs: Are there any other churches that you think are NOT Christian Churches even though they proclaim Jesus as their Lord and Savior???

Patient Mary

I did not say I was against Catholic Christians. I clarified by saying I am anti-Catholic Church.
Won't answer your 'new question'.

 

[Phoneman777]

Many of your Protestant scholars have LONG abandoned this idiotic teaching in the face of Scriptural evidence.
Shame that YOU'RE still wallowing in the cesspool of confusion.

Once again, in your abject ignorance, you conflate the "Whore" with Christ's Church.
Time for a little Bible, geography and history lesson, Einstein . . .

Those "Whore" can't be the Catholic Church because she is referred to as a "Great City".
I realize the level of ignorance I'm dealing with here - but let me remind you that Vatican city didn't exist during John's lifetime. Besides - Vatican Hill is NOT one of the Seven Hills of Rome - as I have repeatedly shown you.

Ummmmm, by the way - Jerusalem ALSO sits on SEVEN HILLS,:
Scopus
Nob
Mount of Corruption
Old Mount Zion
Ophel
Rock
New Mount Zion

When John wrote Revelation - Jerusalem had a lot of power over "many kings" of the earth. Jerusalem was the global center for worship of God. It was also an international center of commerce.

Isaiah 1:21 flat-out tells us that Jerusalem - the "Faithful City" has become a HARLOT (Whore):
Isaiah 1:21
How is the faithful city become a HARLOT! she that was full of justice! righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers.

SO - we have established that "Babylon" is pagan Rome
We have the "Faithful City" (Jerusalem)
We have the "Great City" with power over kings
We have a City on SEVEN HILLS
She is DRUNK on the blood of Gods holy ones
She is full of MURDERERS (Isaiah 1:21)
She is in cahoots with Rome against the Early Church (Acts 8:1-3, 9:4-5)
We have - JERUSALEM.

In your complete ignorance - YOU'VE been barking up the WRONG tree, Einstein . . .

The only "Protestants" who've abandoned Protestant Historicism are those who've fallen for the "wine of Babylon" which makes drunk the whole world. I assure you, there are still many Protestant Historicists like myself who will not be swayed by the lies of the papacy. John indeed was referring to the papacy when he identified that whore of Revelation 17 as "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the Earth".

If you still have any doubt as to whether the papacy "reigned" over those kings ---

Just ask King Henry IV who was forced by Pope Gregory VII to stand in the snow for 3 days until he granted him an audience so that the king could beg him the privilege to sit again upon his throne again.

Or King Henry II who was whipped by 100 monks for resisting the authority of Pope Alexander III.

Or King John of England, who, after Pope Innocent III excommunicated him, conceded the Crown to the pope in order to win back his favor...the Crown which included all the territories it possessed or would ever colonize from that day forward belongs to the pope. The details are plain for all to see written right there in the Magna Carta.

She's still reigning covertly over them today.

 

[mjrhealth]

Hi Phoneman,

I recently converted to Catholism so I know first hand what the CC teaches and your suggestion that we "keep sacrificing Him over and over and over" is not true.

Do you want to know what we truly believe or do you prefer to stay in your anti-Catholic mindset?

Curious Mary

Lies is all you believe, I do very doubt that you only recently converted you sounded very much a catholic the day you came here..

 

[Marymog]

I did not say I was against Catholic Christians. I clarified by saying I am anti-Catholic Church.
Won't answer your 'new question'.

Sooooo anyone that is a Catholic and follows the teachings of the CC you are not against you are just against the CC teachings? Weird.....

Of course you won’t answer because if you did it would show how ignorant your statement is.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Lies is all you believe, I do very doubt that you only recently converted you sounded very much a catholic the day you came here..

I don’t believe your lies sooooo how is it that I believe lies???

And you sound like a Protestant that can change their beliefs/doctrines on a whim. Does that make you better than me?

Curious Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

I don’t believe your lies sooooo how is it that I believe lies???

And you sound like a Protestant that can change their beliefs/doctrines on a whim. Does that make you better than me?

Curious Mary

funny thing is you catholics do more protesting than anyone else, especially against the truth, that makes you more protestant than the protestants, funny thing is when @Phoneman777 comes and ridicules the catholic church all it is , is a family spat, over which of the harlots is the prettiest

 

[BreadOfLife]

The only "Protestants" who've abandoned Protestant Historicism are those who've fallen for the "wine of Babylon" which makes drunk the whole world. I assure you, there are still many Protestant Historicists like myself who will not be swayed by the lies of the papacy. John indeed was referring to the papacy when he identified that whore of Revelation 17 as "that great city which reigneth over the kings of the Earth".

If you still have any doubt as to whether the papacy "reigned" over those kings ---

Just ask King Henry IV who was forced by Pope Gregory VII to stand in the snow for 3 days until he granted him an audience so that the king could beg him the privilege to sit again upon his throne again.

Or King Henry II who was whipped by 100 monks for resisting the authority of Pope Alexander III.

Or King John of England, who, after Pope Innocent III excommunicated him, conceded the Crown to the pope in order to win back his favor...the Crown which included all the territories it possessed or would ever colonize from that day forward belongs to the pope. The details are plain for all to see written right there in the Magna Carta.

She's still reigning covertly over them today.

Attempting to teach the ignorant of Biblical realities is a lot like leading stubborn horse to water. I simply can't make you drink the truth - I can only present it to you.

In post #570, I laid out the biblical, historical and geographical realities about the "Whore" of Babylon to you - and just like I expected - it went in ONE ear and dribbled out the other.

John was writing about Nero and the 1st century "Whore", which is a CITY. Vatican city didn't exist in the 1st century, Einstein.
This is a LOT like watching an inept treasure hunter ignoring his map and digging in the WRONG spot . . .

 

[Marymog]

funny thing is you catholics do more protesting than anyone else, especially against the truth, that makes you more protestant than the protestants, funny thing is when @Phoneman777 comes and ridicules the catholic church all it is , is a family spat, over which of the harlots is the prettiest

We do protest the lies that are put forth by Protestants.

 

[tabletalk]

Sooooo anyone that is a Catholic and follows the teachings of the CC you are not against you are just against the CC teachings? Weird.....

Of course you won’t answer because if you did it would show how ignorant your statement is.

Mary

Maybe this is the way to say it:
God hates sin. The CC sins in every Mass (idolatry) it performs. I think God hates your church.
But, I am commanded to love my enemies, so I must say I do not hate Catholic Christians, even though I hate your church.