Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!

[Grailhunter]

The Old Covenant had its place until the New was instituted through Messiah. The Old was good. The New is better!

Good!!! Good!!! again
Politically correct standards! You have to be kidding me.....
Women were property.
Fathers sold their daughter into slavery.
Kill all that breaths and don't forget the babies, but you can save the virgins for yourselves.
If a woman does not bleed on her wedding, you can stone her to death and leave her body on her father's doorstep.
Divorce that old lady so you can have a younger wife...which was a death sentence in that time period.
Get even...eye for eye
And I can go on and on. You have to be joking!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I'm laughing as I have this discussion with you, which I'm enjoying BTW. I have been a staunch critic of the belief that Christians are under the Mosaic law in any way. We live by faith through the Spirit, not the law.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't believe that Paul said anything "bad" about the law. He was really down on anyone who tried to place the burden of the law on the backs of Christians. And he harshly criticized the Galatians for thinking that they could begin their new life in Christ by the Spirit in faith and continue it according to the law in the flesh.

That ministry of death. Do you really want me to quote the scriptures?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Politically correct standards! You have to be kidding me.....
Women were property.
Fathers sold their daughter into slavery.
Kill all that breaths and don't forget the babies, but you can save the virgins for yourselves.
If a woman does not bleed on her wedding, you can stone her to death and leave her body on her father's doorstep.
Divorce that old lady so you can have a younger wife...which was a death sentence in that time period.
Get even...eye for eye
And I can go on and on. You have to be joking!

You know, it sounds like you think that your goodness and righteousness exceeds God's! Like you would never have instituted these laws if you were God!

I don't pretend to understand all that is in the law, but I refuse to judge God's law as you have.
.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

That ministry of death. Do you really want me to quote the scriptures?

I know them. I've studied them--very brainwashed am I.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'm laughing as I have this discussion with you, which I'm enjoying BTW. I have been a staunch critic of the belief that Christians are under the Mosaic law in any way. We live by faith through the Spirit, not the law.

The truth will get you in trouble. And although the Mosaic Law was what it was. That is how I look at it. People reading this can get the impression that I do not like the Jews or we should get rid of the Old Testament. To the contrary, I love the Jews and you cannot really understand the New Testament without knowledge of the Old Testament. History is a big thing too, what happened between the testaments set the stage for the Gospels.

 

[Grailhunter]

You know, it sounds like you think that your goodness and righteousness exceeds God's! Like you would never have instituted these laws if you were God!

I don't pretend to understand all that is in the law, but I refuse to judge God's law as you have.
.

You know, it sounds like you think that your goodness and righteousness exceeds God's! Like you would never have instituted these laws if you were God!

Not even a small chance. I will leave it at that.

 

[Grailhunter]

You know, it sounds like you think that your goodness and righteousness exceeds God's! Like you would never have instituted these laws if you were God!

I don't pretend to understand all that is in the law, but I refuse to judge God's law as you have.
.

I don't pretend to understand all that is in the law, but I refuse to judge God's law as you have.

I do not have to judge the Mosaic Law...all I have to do is copy and paste.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

***I don't see that Paul is saying in these scriptures you mentioned that the law is bad in any way. He said that the Mosaic law (the ministry of death) "came with glory," but that the ministry of the Spirit is "more glorious." The law was meant to bring death so that the people would see their need for Messiah, who would bring life!

2 Cor 3:7-18--Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones, came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses’ face because of the glory from his face — a fading glory — how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness overflows with even more glory. In fact, what had been glorious is not glorious now by comparison because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.

Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness. We are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the Israelites could not stare at the end of what was fading away, but their minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant, the same veil remains; it is not lifted, because it is set aside only in Christ. Even to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts, but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I don't pretend to understand all that is in the law, but I refuse to judge God's law as you have.

I do not have to judge the Mosaic Law...all I have to do is copy and paste.

Have you always felt this way about the law, or are these sentiments a recent development?

 

[Grailhunter]

Have you always felt this way about the law, or are these sentiments a recent development?

Reality is always a good thing. Good or bad by Christian standards, not so good. But historians have to put things in perspective.
The Hebrews had a different God than those around them, but their society and rules were similar. Women were property in most of those societies, and treated as such. The Israelites were very much in the minority, and for them to gain numbers an accelerated breeding program was necessary....Polygamy. Descendants like the sands of the shore, the stars in the heavens, the dust of the earth. They did not make it. Killing all that breathed meant that their sons would not avenge their fathers.

 

[Grailhunter]

***I don't see that Paul is saying in these scriptures you mentioned that the law is bad in any way. He said that the Mosaic law (the ministry of death) "came with glory," but that the ministry of the Spirit is "more glorious." The law was meant to bring death so that the people would see their need for Messiah, who would bring life!

2 Cor 3:7-18--Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones, came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses’ face because of the glory from his face — a fading glory — how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness overflows with even more glory. In fact, what had been glorious is not glorious now by comparison because of the glory that surpasses it. For if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.

Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness. We are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the Israelites could not stare at the end of what was fading away, but their minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant, the same veil remains; it is not lifted, because it is set aside only in Christ. Even to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts, but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory; this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Ministry of death did come with glory, so how much more the ministry of salvation and love will be more glorious!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Reality is always a good thing. Good or bad by Christian standards, not so good. But historians have to put things in perspective.
The Hebrews had a different God than those around them, but their society and rules were similar. Women were property in most of those societies, and treated as such. The Israelites were very much in the minority, and for them to gain numbers an accelerated breeding program was necessary....Polygamy. Descendants like the sands of the shore, the stars in the heavens, the dust of the earth. They did not make it. Killing all that breathed meant that their sons would not avenge their fathers.

Even though the Mosaic law seems harsh to women by the West's standards of today, it offered certain protections for women that other societies didn't offer. I was just reading about a medical missionary to India (don't remember her name at the moment) who gave her life to helping Indian women who were not allowed to see doctors, probably because they were all male (or possibly because cows have historically been valued more than women in India. Still are, I think, for the most part).

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Ministry of death did come with glory, so how much more the ministry of salvation and love will be more glorious!

Yup! That's what I said, and that's what Paul said. IOW, I'm in agreement with Paul. Are you reading my posts??

 

[Grailhunter]

I disagree with you. Even though the Mosaic law seems harsh to women by the West's standards of today, it offered certain protections for women that other societies didn't offer. I was just reading about a medical missionary to India (don't remember her name at the moment) who gave her life to helping Indian women who were not allowed to see doctors, probably because they were all male or possibly because cows have historically been valued more than women in India.

West's standards! How about right and wrong. As I said the Israelites were not the only ones with cruel and unfair practices.
You do not believe in modern revelation? Even though Paul said that there was no difference between male and female...that did not happen. But I look forward to a revelation of God that women are equal members in the Church at all levels....because it is right. I do not have to be God to know that.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yup! That's what I said, and that's what Paul said. IOW, I'm in agreement with Paul. Are you reading my posts??

Oh ya, I read your posts. Have you read my posts....you seem to be asking the same questions I have addressed. We agree with Paul.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

West's standards! How about right and wrong. As I said the Israelites were not the only ones with cruel and unfair practices.
You do not believe in modern revelation? Even though Paul said that there was no difference between male and female...that did not happen. But I look forward to a revelation of God that women are equal members in the Church at all levels....because it is right. I do not have to be God to know that.

God has already given this revelation! It's just that some men are not implementing this fully in some churches.

This is not to say that we ignore the chain of authority set up by Jesus Christ for His body. This is very important. But no Christian is to lord it over another Christian, not even a husband over his wife, IMHO.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Oh ya, I read your posts. Have you read my posts....you seem to be asking the same questions I have addressed. We agree with Paul.

Well, perhaps the hour has us both blurry-eyed. I woke up at three-something after getting to sleep around eleven. That's not enough sleep even for us old folks.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, perhaps the hour has us both blurry-eyed. I woke up at three-something after getting to sleep around eleven. That's not enough sleep even for us old folks.

I naps. Think in my sleep. But good to talk with you.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is easy
Matthew 19:8 He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.

It was not only Moses who permitted them to divorce their wives; but God instituted this law to Moses to give to the people out of grace and mercy to their hardened hearts.