This may be too vague and complicated but I think it would be interesting to know the differences in these cults. Any info appreciated!
JW's, SDA's, Unitarians and Mormons
- Thread starter kcnalp
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
SDA isn’t a cult. They have some unusual beliefs, but aren’t a cult according to Dr. Walter Martin in his book, the kingdom of the cults.
They are trinitarian.
They believe the damned cease to exist rather than endure torment for eternity.
What do Seventh Day Adventists Really Believe? | Adventist.org
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Christian or Cultic?
So, where does this leave us? Is the SDA a cult or not? I have proposed six tests. The SDA failed all but one of them — the one concerning the identity of Jesus. And there are serious questions about that one.
I am convinced that Walter Martin declassified the SDA as a cult in 1965 because he became convinced that they had an orthodox view of Jesus. To him, that was the acid test. I would agree that it is the most important one, but the group’s perverted concept of the Gospel must be ranked as almost equal in importance because of Paul’s warning in Galatians 1:8-9.
I therefore must conclude that the SDA should be considered a cult until they are willing to repudiate the “Investigative Judgment” doctrine and are willing to clearly state that the Bible, and not the writings of Ellen G. White, is their final authority in all matters.
After I concluded this essay, I decided to contact Dr. Ron Carlson, the man who is considered to be Christendom’s foremost expert on the cults today. I asked him for a statement about the SDA, and this is what he wrote in response:
“As you may know, Walter Martin was my mentor and dear friend for 20 years and spoke at my ordination. I was to have lunch with him the day he died in 1989.
Walter had a real influence on many of the SDA leaders in the 70’s and early 80’s seeking to move them to a Biblical position. Many were, and there was hope for the SDA Church.
What has happened in the last 20 years is that nearly 50% of the SDA pastors and leaders who were seeking to move it to an evangelical position have all been ‘kicked’ out or left the SDA. The people who are now in control have moved the organization back to following the teachings of Ellen G. White and denying some basic doctrines of Biblical Christianity. In fact, their official position is that if you do not worship on Saturday you are not a Christian and will not go to Heaven. Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. They are clearly today a false Cult.”
The Seventh-Day Adventists | Cults | Lamb and Lion Ministries
So, where does this leave us? Is the SDA a cult or not? I have proposed six tests. The SDA failed all but one of them — the one concerning the identity of Jesus. And there are serious questions about that one.
I am convinced that Walter Martin declassified the SDA as a cult in 1965 because he became convinced that they had an orthodox view of Jesus. To him, that was the acid test. I would agree that it is the most important one, but the group’s perverted concept of the Gospel must be ranked as almost equal in importance because of Paul’s warning in Galatians 1:8-9.
I therefore must conclude that the SDA should be considered a cult until they are willing to repudiate the “Investigative Judgment” doctrine and are willing to clearly state that the Bible, and not the writings of Ellen G. White, is their final authority in all matters.
After I concluded this essay, I decided to contact Dr. Ron Carlson, the man who is considered to be Christendom’s foremost expert on the cults today. I asked him for a statement about the SDA, and this is what he wrote in response:
“As you may know, Walter Martin was my mentor and dear friend for 20 years and spoke at my ordination. I was to have lunch with him the day he died in 1989.
Walter had a real influence on many of the SDA leaders in the 70’s and early 80’s seeking to move them to a Biblical position. Many were, and there was hope for the SDA Church.
What has happened in the last 20 years is that nearly 50% of the SDA pastors and leaders who were seeking to move it to an evangelical position have all been ‘kicked’ out or left the SDA. The people who are now in control have moved the organization back to following the teachings of Ellen G. White and denying some basic doctrines of Biblical Christianity. In fact, their official position is that if you do not worship on Saturday you are not a Christian and will not go to Heaven. Sunday worship is the mark of the beast. They are clearly today a false Cult.”
The Seventh-Day Adventists | Cults | Lamb and Lion Ministries
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The word "cult" is misused and abused. It has become just a "boo!" word to throw at any group we disagree with.
The Online Etymology Dictionary gives us this:
cult (n.)
1610s, "worship," also "a particular form of worship," from French culte (17c.), from Latin cultus "care, labor; cultivation, culture; worship, reverence," originally "tended, cultivated," past participle of colere "to till" (see colony). Rare after 17c.; revived mid-19c. with reference to ancient or primitive rituals. Meaning "devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829.
Cult in its original meaning is about devotion, reverence or worship. This is the sense of the first definition of the word given by the Concise Oxford English Dictionary:
a system of religious devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
Peter Kreeft (Catholic apologist) wrote a book “Fundamentals of the Faith” in which he talks about “Creed, Code and Cult” or “Words, Works and Worship” (he likes alliteration!) by which he means:
What we believe
How we act
How we worship
In this sense the term cult has respectable usage.
In recent times it has been used in secular terms to express something that is fashionable. The Concise Oxford English Dictionary gives this definition of that sense:
[often as modifier] a thing that is popular or fashionable among a particular group: a cult film.
However it has also come to used (in very recent times) by some people as a pejorative word to label some groups, particularly religious groups, that we disagree with.
The Concise Oxford English Dictionary gives this definition of that sense:
a relatively small religious group regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
However such a usage of the word is no better than the second definition given by the Online Etymology Dictionary:
Cult. An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree.
According to this article History and usage of the term 'cult' - Apologetics Index Sociologists originally applied the word to some religious groups in particular way.
They used the word ‘church’ or ‘denomination’ for large identifiable groups in mainstream religion.
They then used the word ‘sect’ for small groups that broke away from these large groupings but still keep many of the beliefs and practices of the larger group.
However this left groups that did not fit into either of these categories. Any group that wasn’t a church or a sect was labelled a cult. It was a ‘left-over’ category.
From the article linked to:
Social scientists have since set out to refine their definition of "cult" into something more descriptive and precise. Yet no matter what they came up with, they invariably saw cults as religious groups that stood over against the prevailing belief systems of the culture -- which, of course, were reflected and identified with the Judeo-Christian religious institutions.
Sects were recognized as offshoots that, for the most part, still held to the religious and cultural traditions from which they emerged. Cults, meanwhile, had a religious structure wholly alien to the prevalent religious communities. In a 1978 article written for the Annual Review of the Social Sciences of Religion, sociologist James T. Richardson explained that
a cult is usually defined as a small informal group lacking a definite authority structure, somewhat spontaneous in its development (although often possessing a somewhat charismatic leader or group of leaders), transitory, somewhat mystical and individualistically oriented, and deriving its inspiration and ideology from outside the predominant religious culture.
This definition is still neutral. However (and this is my suggestion) because many of these groups appeared to have strange and destructive tendencies (think David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, or Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple), the word cult as applied to these small groups took on a negative association. The term cult, with its negative association then came to be applied by individuals and groups to other groups that they disagreed with. The word was detached from its sociological meaning and used to express negativity about another group. Cult in this type of usage could be defined as “An organized group of people, religious or not, with whom you disagree”
In other words it’s just used as a pejorative term to insult groups you disagree with.
Personally, I think that since this usage of the term has become degraded and abused, cult should not be used except in its centuries old meaning.
Note: The article referred to does not restrict itself to Christianity although the extracts I have given may give that impression.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Do we assume people are judged by their denominational affiliation?
Of those who judge, who has actually read the writings of those in the OP thread in preference to taking on board some 'expert's' opinion?
Of those who judge, who has actually read the writings of those in the OP thread in preference to taking on board some 'expert's' opinion?
Well... that was a very interesting article... @Mungo ... I have used this word... and probably mis-used this word.
To me... the definition of a cult ( as I know it )... is any religious organization that professes to have a spiritual leader who is NOT Jesus Christ. ( someone who professes to be God... or the enlightened one ).
That comment will get me in hot water but I am not going to argue... I am not one to study the different religions of the world... and by the state of these "Christian " forums... we have our own mess to clean up... So much bickering and back-biting... Rather unattractive.
To me... the definition of a cult ( as I know it )... is any religious organization that professes to have a spiritual leader who is NOT Jesus Christ. ( someone who professes to be God... or the enlightened one ).
That comment will get me in hot water but I am not going to argue... I am not one to study the different religions of the world... and by the state of these "Christian " forums... we have our own mess to clean up... So much bickering and back-biting... Rather unattractive.
SDAs (at least those I have come across on forums) are obsessively anti-Jesuits. They seem to blame Jesuits for everything they think is wrong in the world.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
SDA's that I have come across over the years on multiple Christian forum sites believe the Roman Catholic church changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. The Christian Forums site is crawling with SDA's.
SDA's teach that near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.
Mark of the Beast
Today must be my day to learn something... this is also very interesting. Waving to the mailman !!!!!
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
SDA's teach a perverted gospel of "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." Here is an example below from a statement that a SDA once made to me during a discussion I had with him:
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
I think that those are the guys that have strict dietary observances... I get mixed up between SDA and LDS... ( Latter Day Saints ).
Me thinks you have an unstudied bias, when you use the word 'cult' in association with the "SDA" (Seventh-day Adventist), but hey, it's your thread and your prerogative. If you want to start off with a false and unstudied claim, well that is up to you. Never-the-less, I want to share some detailed materials on the subject of Seventh-day Adventists, in which will also have material covering the other groups you mentioned (JW's ... Unitarians and Mormons). I am actually surprised you didn't include the Roman Catholic system and Islam and a few others, like the Moonies, etc.
Anyways, here are some links to proper indepth materials for those who actually want to study, and not merely carry on a blatantly false and undocumented smear campaign (looking at you mailmandan) (these are Seventh-day Adventist links (but carry plenty of non-'SDA' material, like history, things on Creation, science, and even Bible studies by Baptists, etc), lest anyone should say I was 'sneaky' (again, looking at you mailmandan)):
Table of Accusations Covered in of "A Response to the Video," Whether Fact or Fiction, Implied or Stated
User Account
http://supernaturalresources.epizy.com
Matthew_ten_Verseight
awhn
Myers Media
Messengers of Light Ministry
Home - Apocalypse Ministries
Isaiah Ministries – He came to set the captives free. . . !
Tree of Life | "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise." Proverbs 11:30
Mission | Living Manna Ministries
Home Page - Gospel Ministries International
Randy Skeete - Home
PTH Ministries - A Bible Based Ministry of Preaching, Teaching & Healing!
Belt of Truth Ministries
Shepherd's Call Ministry
Harvest Time Books
Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - Earth Science Associates
Adventist Defense League | Adventist Apologetics Made Simple
Biblical Adventist Truths
https://new.amazingdiscoveries.org/
Homepage
Amazing Facts - God's Message Is Our Mission!
White Horse Media | Steve Wohlberg
Resources | Sabbath School and Personal Ministries Department
Dennis Priebe
The Source by Heidi Heiks - Home Page
CARE/Cell Groups - Rightly Trained
Home Page
Home
NEWSTART Lifestyle Program – Let's get back to life!
AudioVerse
The Biblical Timeline
Sunday Law News - Mark of the Beast Update for 2020
Last edited:
Any group that denies Jesus is God or eternal fire I consider cults.
Mormons, they believe in ongoing prophecy and revelation, which is what separates them from other churches. In that they believe they will become Gods and be married in heaven and be given even as God has been given. I think they still believe that Jesus is God, but they also believe that he is our brother.
As far as calling them a cult. I think I could say half the members on this forum are cult like in some fashion. Don't believe in baptism, or the sacrament. Think they're OSAS, etc. I wouldn't go throwing that word around too much: "cult". Heck we've had several members banned for spreading the occult on this forum. And they weren't one of these churches you mentioned as far as I know.
As far as calling them a cult. I think I could say half the members on this forum are cult like in some fashion. Don't believe in baptism, or the sacrament. Think they're OSAS, etc. I wouldn't go throwing that word around too much: "cult". Heck we've had several members banned for spreading the occult on this forum. And they weren't one of these churches you mentioned as far as I know.
Last edited:
I am Seventh-day Adventist.
Jesus is God (Deity; John 1:1c, etc), eternal (John 1:1a), as the Son of the Father (John 1:1b). The Fire (being God) is indeed "eternal". Torment is not. God is long-suffering the wicked, not eternally suffering them.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
