Labor To Enter Into What Rest?

[Jay Ross]

Is Armageddon the treading of the wine press, blood up to the horses bridal?

I have not considered looked into that particular prophecy yet. My initial reaction to your question is NO. The harvest occurs at the end of the Millennium Age and the flow out of the wine press is an indication of number of saints that will be found when the sickle is swung to harvest the vintage fruit/grapes of the earth. Rev 14.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Good Heavens! Look at that. How clear can you get! Point blank they were saying that the Biblical narrative would be fulfilled in 6,000 years, and I mean POINT BLANK. I wonder how many Preterists know that...

Thanks a lot for this, 1stCenturyLady. I've never noticed it before. I need to read more of the early fathers and less of the late third cousins on my step-father's side, LoL.

What is also interesting is that many scholars, myself included LOL, believe that Hebrews was written by Barnabas. Both Hebrews and the EoB delve into the meanings behind the Old Testament, and how it relates to the New. And neither letter is signed, whereas Paul signed all of his letters.

I also believe chapter 15 of the EOB being a prophecy of when the earth would end would not want to be believed by those choosing the books of the canon after knowing only a little over 4000 years had passed for them, no where near 6000 years.

 

[Doug]

In Hebrews 4:9, believers in Christ were told that there remains a Sabbath rest unto the people of God, and in v.11 that they were to labor to enter into that rest.

Hebrews was written for Jewish believers in tribulation.

What was it/ is it, and how were they/ are we to labor to enter into it?

The Jewish believers are urged to take heed from departing from the living God due to unbelief.



They were urged to labor to enter into the promise of rest from their own works, not to fall from unbelief, and to hold fast their profession:


"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession." Hebrews 4:14


If those fall away in unbelief it is impossible to renew them again to repentance seeing they crucify the Son of God afresh by reverting back to the old priesthood and Levitical system of sacrifice.

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Hebrews 4:3

 

[Waiting on him]

You assume that refers to the weekly Sabbath, when comparing Scripture with Scripture reveals it refers only to yearly Jewish ceremonial sabbaths (Leviticus 23) - not the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments which God wrote with His own finger in stone and declares Himself "shall stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7-8) and never be changed (Psalms 89:34).

Jesus tells us in the New Testament that if you hate your brother your a murderer. This should be a clue to all that there’s a whole new perspective in which we are to view the 10 commands?

 

[Waiting on him]

You don't keep the Sabbath if you heat your house or cook on Saturday.

Under the old perspective this is correct.

 

[Waiting on him]

No fire in your dwelling. No cooking. You are working the system if you skirt this demand.

What if I live next door to a pagan, and I get cold one winter Saturday. Is it ok if I get him to come over and turn my thermostat up?

 

[Waiting on him]

I have not considered looked into that particular prophecy yet. My initial reaction to your question is NO. The harvest occurs at the end of the Millennium Age and the flow out of the wine press is an indication of number of saints that will be found when the sickle is swung to harvest the vintage fruit/grapes of the earth. Rev 14.

Good answer!

 

[Waiting on him]

I have not considered looked into that particular prophecy yet. My initial reaction to your question is NO. The harvest occurs at the end of the Millennium Age and the flow out of the wine press is an indication of number of saints that will be found when the sickle is swung to harvest the vintage fruit/grapes of the earth. Rev 14.

Take a look at Isaiah 63 if you get a chance.

 

[Phoneman777]

The New Covenant replaced ALL of the Old Covenant. We have no sabbath requirement.

Hebrews 4:9 which says the Sabbath remains to be kept by believers is written to New Covenant Christians.

 

[Phoneman777]

No fire in your dwelling. No cooking. You are working the system if you skirt this demand.

Fires are ok. Kindling them with sticks on the Sabbath is not because it's work. The principle is don't work: rest.

 

[Phoneman777]

Jesus tells us in the New Testament that if you hate your brother your a murderer. This should be a clue to all that there’s a whole new perspective in which we are to view the 10 commands?

Of course. This is a prime example of the fulfillment of the Messiah's predicted work in Isaiah 42:21.

Can we find an example of one keeping the spirit of a law while simultaneously breaking the letter of that law?

Can a man in the act of copulating with his neighbor's wife be innocent of lusting after her, or is he not only committing adultery, but also lusting after her with animal passion while doing so?

Please, just one example which disproves the maxim that it is impossible to keep the Spirit of a law without by default keeping the Letter of that law as well.

 

[Waiting on him]

Of course. This is a prime example of the fulfillment of the Messiah's predicted work in Isaiah 42:21.

Can we find an example of one keeping the spirit of a law while simultaneously breaking the letter of that law?

Can a man in the act of copulating with his neighbor's wife be innocent of lusting after her, or is he not only committing adultery, but also lusting after her with animal passion while doing so?

Please, just one example which disproves the maxim that it is impossible to keep the Spirit of a law without by default keeping the Letter of that law as well.

If I even look at a woman with lust in my heart I’ve committed adultery, there by ive there by I’m guilty of the whole law. What if what’s implied is the woman in the proverbs( the world)?? You know the one he saw outside his window.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What is also interesting is that many scholars, myself included LOL, believe that Hebrews was written by Barnabas. Both Hebrews and the EoB delve into the meanings behind the Old Testament, and how it relates to the New. And neither letter is signed, whereas Paul signed all of his letters.

I had considered Apollos, but Barnabas may have a better case. I do find it odd that if it was Paul he didn't sign it, whereas he did sign all his (other) epistles.

I also believe chapter 15 of the EOB being a prophecy of when the earth would end would not want to be believed by those choosing the books of the canon after knowing only a little over 4000 years had passed for them, no where near 6000 years.

Absolutely. And to be aware at that time that they had another 2,000 years to wait until it would be accomplished is astonishing. Completely flies in the face of the nonsense Augustine championed a few centuries later in spiritualizing it all away as now applying to the church instead of Israel. Makes you wonder why he didn't listen to his forebears.

 

[Phoneman777]

If I even look at a woman with lust in my heart I’ve committed adultery, there by ive there by I’m guilty of the whole law. What if what’s implied is the woman in the proverbs( the world)?? You know the one he saw outside his window.

Then don't look.

We know full well that just before a look turns to lust, the Holy Spirit calls on us to "look away! look away!" and right there we either cry out for His help to tear our gaze from that which the flesh wants so badly, or continue looking until we are lusting and become guilty of sin.

Always a choice, unless you can find that text which says the devil can barricade the way of escape from temptation.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I had considered Apollos, but Barnabas may have a better case. I do find it odd that if it was Paul he didn't sign it, whereas he did sign all his (other) epistles.


Absolutely. And to be aware at that time that they had another 2,000 years to wait until it would be accomplished is astonishing. Completely flies in the face of the nonsense Augustine championed a few centuries later in spiritualizing it all away as now applying to the church instead of Israel. Makes you wonder why he didn't listen to his forebears.

I don't know much about what Augustine believed, except for his statement, "Love God, then live as you please." On the surface that sounded like "greasy grace." But then I took the time to look it up and read it in context, and was impressed that his beliefs were what the apostles taught. I think Luther may have taken those words and not known what Augustine meant. Augustine meant, love God, and then live according to your new nature He has given you - walking in the Spirit; whereas, Luther said to sin boldly, but love God more - the opposite of the apostles message of walk in the Spirit so you don't sin - period! He taught greasy grace!

 

[Enoch111]

I do find it odd that if it was Paul he didn't sign it, whereas he did sign all his (other) epistles.

There are many things in the epistle to the Hebrews which are different from most of Paul's epistles. But the key to establishing this as another one of his epistles is right there (for those who care to observe).

HEBREWS 13
23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
25 Grace be with you all. Amen. (Written to the Hebrews from Italy, by Timothy.)

There is only one person in the New Testament who had a very close relationship to Timothy -- that was the apostle Paul. And to clinch it he says "with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you".

Also, Timothy is the scribe writing this epistle for Paul, since Paul's eyesight was weak, and therefore he signed his epistles with "large letters".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There are many things in the epistle to the Hebrews which are different from most of Paul's epistles. But the key to establishing this as another one of his epistles is right there (for those who care to observe).

HEBREWS 13
23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you.
24 Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the saints. They of Italy salute you.
25 Grace be with you all. Amen. (Written to the Hebrews from Italy, by Timothy.)

There is only one person in the New Testament who had a very close relationship to Timothy -- that was the apostle Paul. And to clinch it he says "with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you".

Also, Timothy is the scribe writing this epistle for Paul, since Paul's eyesight was weak, and therefore he signed his epistles with "large letters".

No, Timothy didn't write that for Paul. He wasn't there. He just got out of jail, but they hadn't seen him yet, and it wasn't known if he would arrive shortly, but if so, then Paul (or Barnabas) would go with Timothy to visit the Hebrews.

The "large letters" was in the letter to the Galatians.

 

[Enoch111]

No, Timothy didn't write that for Paul.

I guess you were there personally to verify this?

 

[mjrhealth]

If I even look at a woman with lust in my heart I’ve committed adultery, there by ive there by I’m guilty of the whole law. What if what’s implied is the woman in the proverbs( the world)?? You know the one he saw outside his window.

And yet what did God say of David

Act_13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

and HE was under the law.. for all His shortcomings God still blessed Him,

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I guess you were there personally to verify this?

LOL No, silly. That's what it says.

23 Know ye that the brother Timotheus is released, with whom, if he may come more shortly, I will see you.

24 Salute all those leading you, and all the saints; salute you doth those from Italy:

25 the grace [is] with you all! Amen.
----------

22 Brethren, please listen patiently to what I have said in this letter, for it is a short one. 23 I want you to know that Brother Timothy is now out of jail; if he comes here soon, I will come with him to see you. 24-25 Give my greetings to all your leaders and to the other believers there. The Christians from Italy who are here with me send you their love. God’s grace be with you all. Good-bye.