Manifestations

[Arnie Manitoba]

It has certainly been established that during excorcisms the posessed will often make animal sounds and sometimes even crawl around like an animal

Many of the occultic tribal jungle dancers work themselves into a frenzy and then proceed to act and sound like animals.

A hypnotist can make a room full of people sound and act like animals

A lot of "evangelists" use hypnotic tactics to influence people

Most often the end result is opening the wallets of the people under the hypnotic spell

Remove the revenue from most of those so called "ministries" and observe the results.

A sucker is born every minute

Some of the suckers are christians

They are the easiest to manipulate because of the trust of anything flying under the "christian banner"

It is better to be born again , than to be a born sucker.

Being able to bark like a dog is not a prerequisite to get to heaven

Nor does the bible list barking as a talent of The Holy Spirit

 

[Raeneske]

In reply to the above #38, I want to address this quote: "Tongues is not given to you, or anyone else for the benefit of self. It is given, that you may teach to those who are unlearned, those who know not the truth."
This is a narrow commentary concerning tongues. In Paul's teaching on the subject in 1Cor.14, he touches on two distinct uses of the gift.

One of them is the public speaking of another language. In it, he cautions them to refrain from doing so if no interpretation is available. The interpretaion he speaks of is by the Holy Spirit, and is as supernatural as the actual speaking of a language unknown to the speaker. His argument is that we need to communicate to one another in ways that can be understood.

The other use is that of a personal prayer language from the spirit of the believer directly to God. This can be confirmed in vs.2 and vs.14. Paul does not restrict this in the same way that he restricts public use of tongues. The indication seems that the primary purpose for the gift is self edification, as said so in vs.4, and vs.24.

Here is a summary, taken from the whole of the context, but specifically confirmed by vs2,4,&14. Through the Holy Spirit, the gift of tongues is the ability to pray to God in a language unknown to, and not understood by, the person doing the praying. It edifies that person. Keep in mind that this edification happens regardless of any interpretation, for it is a way of direct communication between the spirit of that person and God.

Therefore, if a person speaks in tongues to another person, the point of it is useless to that other person unless he can understand it. So Paul discourages that particual use of the gift in any way other than a limited amount.

As for the rest of your reply, I agree that to the observer, there seems to be a lack of decency and order in many of these so called revival outbursts of strange manifestations. And as for the video in the previous post (#37), I have reservations concerning some of the conclusions made by the speaker, though I certainly feel the same way that many of these things are contrived by something or someone other than the Holy Spirit. But be careful that we don't demonize our brothers in Christ, no matter how misled they may appear to be.

Our brethren are not the demons, you are right. However, they need to know exactly where such a manifestation comes from.

As for tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

You teach in tongues to those who do not know the truth, or believe not. It is a gift, manifested in front of those who do not believe, that they may know the gift is from God.

Also, you stated that it edifies the person to pray in an unknown tongue. Verse 4, would appear contradictory to this verse:

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

You are guaranteed to have no understanding, so how could you possibly be edified by praying in an unknown tongue? So, how could you possibly understand what is being said? For all you know, you could be cursing out God. Certainly it would edify if you knew what it meant, even though it would be unknown to the church. But if you don't understand the tongue yourself, there is no understanding there. You wouldn't learn a single thing. You are speaking in an unknown tongue to God, and you know not what you're saying. Just moving your lips, and not learning a single thing from it.

 

[Shirley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVSN7ykBXA

creepy beyond belief!!! How sad that little children are probably being hit by evil while being taught it is God. This video scared me!!!

 

[deceptionfree]

fire tunnels are a dangerous thing - well they can be...years ago at TACF my husbands ministry partner went though a fire tunnel and after a crazy out burst which included loud shrieking and violent physical manifestations - she went awol for weeks. when she finally returned and met with my husband she was a different woman - mentally unstable - needed to be committed to a hospital. after she was released she traveled to india where she is to this day - no longer a Christian.

who out there is aware of the kundalini spirit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBpw2oQrvMM

check it out.

 

[williemac]

Our brethren are not the demons, you are right. However, they need to know exactly where such a manifestation comes from.

As for tongues:

1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

You teach in tongues to those who do not know the truth, or believe not. It is a gift, manifested in front of those who do not believe, that they may know the gift is from God.

Also, you stated that it edifies the person to pray in an unknown tongue. Verse 4, would appear contradictory to this verse:

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

You are guaranteed to have no understanding, so how could you possibly be edified by praying in an unknown tongue? So, how could you possibly understand what is being said? For all you know, you could be cursing out God. Certainly it would edify if you knew what it meant, even though it would be unknown to the church. But if you don't understand the tongue yourself, there is no understanding there. You wouldn't learn a single thing. You are speaking in an unknown tongue to God, and you know not what you're saying. Just moving your lips, and not learning a single thing from it.

What is your point? You ask how could one possibly be edified? Well how would a person know if they do not have the gift? It is like explaining to a person what it is like to be pregnant. But the question should be directed toward Paul, or better yet to God. The bible says what it says. It says that when a person prays to God in an unknown tongue, though his mind is unfruitful, yet he is edified. I never made that up. Better to trust God on that one.
But if I were to have an educated guess, I would reply that for one thing, one is built up on his most holy faith. Tongues is a mystery. But also I feel that the teaching from Paul is intended to imply that the gift is intended to be used in the spirit realm and the person praying does not need to know what is being communicated between his spirit and God. Some prayer, in fact much prayer, is intercession. And if only God knows what is being prayed, then the enemy is also in the dark and cannot interfere. We need to be open and trust that God has/had a purpose for this gift.
I want to add that the only time tongues are a sign to unbelievers is when they are spoken out loud and heard in public. I believe that application is implied in context. However, that is only one use for them. As I shared, the primary use seems to be a private affair between a man and God. Prayer is prayer. Speaking is speaking.
blessings, Howie

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

whoever made those videos is twisting things to say what they want

you people are a bunch of suckers

yes you are

 

[7angels]

POST #37

i loved seeing what God is doing. i disagree with whoever wrote the video and his stance because if you have ever been a part of these things you would know that many of these manifestations of God are real. we are told in the word of God to judge everything according to it's fruit. kenneth copeland, john hagee, benny hinn, and ect bring many into the kingdom of God. the word teaches that signs, miracles, and wonders will confirm that what is taught is true. i have to give the devil credit. for being powerless he sure has done a great job at deceiving the body of Christ in disunity and at keeping the body of Christ powerless. i am surprised at the number of people who claim to be able to hear from God and yet cannot even know when the Spirit is working. you think that just because God is not working in a way you can understand that it must be the devil. that is called complete and utter ignorance. God's ways are not our ways and when we try and put God into a box then all we do is limit what God wants to do. God is bigger than any Box so why do we limit him? is because of man's tradition? is it because we don't understand God's will? is it because we cannot believe these things can happen?

i would love to hear from those that believe that the video in post #37 is of satan how much supernatural things do you have going on within your life? how often do your prayers get answered? what is the Holy Spirit telling you that you need to work on? when is the last time you heard God speak to you? how prosperous are you? what are you gifts from God and when is the last time you have used them? how restful is your life? i could go on and on. these are just a few of the things God tells us to look for as fruit that comes from a person.

this video i have noticed a woman screaming. now why is she screaming you should ask yourself? the video does not look at her but just lets you hear her scream. She could have a demon within her and is being delivered. i love the way they claim everything that is happening is of the devil. it is the same thing that Jesus went through when Jesus was casting demons out of people and the religious leaders of that time accused Jesus of working for the devil and Jesus said that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. and the people accusing these men of faith are people that don't even work in the supernatural so how can they attempt to understand it? i also love this part on satanic hand signs. why does everyone just assume because they use a similar gesture that it make these people ungodly? why are we making judgements on outward appearances? Only God knows what is in a person's heart. again we should be judging people according to the word and not by outward signs. only the devil can make a person do the satanic sign? i can do the satanic sign and i bet you i could get just about anyone to do the sign(this includes christians) just by asking them if they are able too. it does not mean that a demon came upon them and made them do it like the video claims. i love you in sign language is signed almost the exact way and it is tough from this video to see if he is signing i love you and the sign is just a little sloppy. jesse duplantis's sign is a sign for i love you. look at his finger and thumb placement. it is not the satanic sign. the benny hinn helper's sign is that of i love you and not the satanic sign. you are being duped by ignorance of not knowing sign language. the reason you don't pray normally in a prayer line is because you came to receive. this person who made the video gives the devil too much credit for things. the devil cannot redirect a prayer aimed at God because the devil is powerless. Jesus took away all satan's power upon his death and resurrection. just because everyone does not receive exactly the same way is no indicator that nothing happened. laughter spreading through the congregation is known as being drunk in the Spirit. it is very contagious and spreads rapidly to any that are near and it is very hard to stop laughing. i get a kick out of what this guy is saying. why is it that christians who never live the supernatural lifestyle are usually the ones who are out criticizing those that do. should we just look at their fruit in their ministry and let God judge them? God will not bless a ministry that is contrary to his word. but when large amounts of people are being saved, people healed both physically and mentally, and ect shouldn't we realize that this is God? God only gives good and perfect gifts and satan is the one who steals, kills, and destroys. let us look at the ministries and see in what category they fit in. but instead we seem to judge by trying to use our intellects. that is where we are going so far astray. i have found that these preachers/pasters that are being talked about seem to have new revelation about the word of God and so many christians are stuck in old beliefs that they do not even want to consider what they said as being truth. then the person who did this video misrepresents what is being said about Jesus and his disciples not being poor. what is being talked about was Jesus himself was not poor but had money and so since Jesus was wealthy and the disciples were with Jesus that they what they needed. he was not referring to paul at all but saying that we as christians are to be victorious in every area of life and that includes financially. i could go on but i think my point has been made.

God bless

 

[williemac]

whoever made those videos is twisting things to say what they want

you people are a bunch of suckers

yes you are

What a bigoted comment! Give your head a shake. You people? That is what is known as a shotgun approach. Fire away and maybe some of the pellets will hit the appropriate target.
I, for one, have my roots in the charismatic movement of the 80's. I have seen it all (or close to all), and can tell you that not all that I saw was from God and not all was fake. But as I shared, through the gift of discerning of spirits, I saw things that were being called manifestations that I know were not of the Spirit of God. They had apparently come from the so called "Toronto blessing" phenominon of that day.
The problem with this kind of subject is that for the most part the people involved in these dynamics are real believers, many of whom are Spirit filled. I do not agree with those who say that they can be harmed by these "manifestations". But I do question many of the individual motives for going after these "signs".

Many people go from meeting to meeting looking for a high, or an experience that may heal or change them. In my many years involvement with God and with the church and with the study of His word, it is my observation that these events by and large come and go and fade away, leaving many or most completely unchanged. There is a biblical method to our transformation. If it is too boring for some, then I feel sorry for them.

Before entering onto the faith, I was involved in the drug scene and the party scene, and the rock scene. When I was first filled with the Spirit, I experienced a high like none of my former life had given me. It was clean, and I was in complete control. To this day I can feel the presence of God within me. As far as I am concerned, many of these so called "manifestations" and experiences are a poor and temporary mimic of the real thing.

However, I have also seen those who were thrown down and knocked out cold. without any idea that this was a possibility. There were no catchers in these cases and the person was unhurt. Do these things happen? I guess so. Do we go out and make them into a public show? To our shame!
The gospel is given to convict a person of sin and cause him to turn to God for forgiveness, with the intention that a relationship with Him will be the outcome. I think with all the hubub of these meetings, and all the wildness and sensationalism surrounding them, the point of the gospel often gets lost in translation. What is it that people are going after anyway? What message are they receiving? We should think about these things.

In my case, when still seeking, In a church service I went up to the front in an alter call, and a little old lady stood in front of me. She looked very dingy and haggard, as it were. Without warning she was thrown back into my arms, and I was flabbergasted that I could not contain her 90 lb. frame, as I was young, tall, and strong back then. She went right through my arms as though I was not even there. She then began writhing and moaning, and several men took her into a back room to pray for her. When I saw her the next week I barely recognized her. Her countenance was completely transformed. I then knew she had been demon possessed and had been delivered. To me this was a confirmation that this was all real and legitimate, and that God was indeed real and powerful.

I share that story from years ago to say that I admit that for some people seeking the truth they may need some evidence that will sway them towards God. That was true in my case. The difference is that this old woman was taken out of the public and dealt with privately. It was not a sensational showcase. It was discreet, orderly, and respectful of both her and of the Holy Spirit. That is the difference.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I would like to clarify some of my earlier remarks

The video in post #37 should be an eye opener to everybody who is tempted to fall under the hypnotic spell of ANY evangelist

But the person who made the video twists the words and he is trying to fool you too

he takes the words ....... I'm sayin' ... and tries to change it to .... I'm satan ....

he is using his own trickery trying to expose somebody elses trickery

modern christianity is way too susceptable to popular speakers

better to just be your genuine self and trust your gut instincts and the Spirit of discernment

i feel the Holy Spirit within the christian is what authors our gut instincts

If not .... then what does ?

best wishes and do not be suckered by popular speakers who have a big following

jesus was an unpopular speaker with a small following

thank you for the video veteran

 

[williemac]

I would like to clarify some of my earlier remarks

The video in post #37 should be an eye opener to everybody who is tempted to fall under the hypnotic spell of ANY evangelist

But the person who made the video twists the words and he is trying to fool you too

he takes the words ....... I'm sayin' ... and tries to change it to .... I'm satan ....

he is using his own trickery trying to expose somebody elses trickery

modern christianity is way too susceptable to popular speakers

better to just be your genuine self and trust your gut instincts and the Spirit of discernment

i feel the Holy Spirit within the christian is what authors our gut instincts

If not .... then what does ?

best wishes and do not be suckered by popular speakers who have a big following

jesus was an unpopular speaker with a small following

thank you for the video veteran

I agree. I see some manipulative persuation in these as well. That's too bad. It kind of invalidates their authority on the matter. blessings from a fellow (former) Manitoban ....Howie

 

[Raeneske]

What is your point? You ask how could one possibly be edified? Well how would a person know if they do not have the gift? It is like explaining to a person what it is like to be pregnant. But the question should be directed toward Paul, or better yet to God. The bible says what it says. It says that when a person prays to God in an unknown tongue, though his mind is unfruitful, yet he is edified. I never made that up. Better to trust God on that one.
But if I were to have an educated guess, I would reply that for one thing, one is built up on his most holy faith. Tongues is a mystery. But also I feel that the teaching from Paul is intended to imply that the gift is intended to be used in the spirit realm and the person praying does not need to know what is being communicated between his spirit and God. Some prayer, in fact much prayer, is intercession. And if only God knows what is being prayed, then the enemy is also in the dark and cannot interfere. We need to be open and trust that God has/had a purpose for this gift.
I want to add that the only time tongues are a sign to unbelievers is when they are spoken out loud and heard in public. I believe that application is implied in context. However, that is only one use for them. As I shared, the primary use seems to be a private affair between a man and God. Prayer is prayer. Speaking is speaking.
blessings, Howie

You are missing the contrast that is being made. He is showing that it is not helpful to the church of God whatsoever, to "pray in tongues" -- different tongues -- does not help you at all. You gain nothing from it, your understanding is unfruitful, and it is written, "by their fruits". This is not saying there is a completely different form and style of tongues altogether. It is showing how speaking in a language you don't understand does absolutely nothing. And making random sounds and calling it tongues does not say anything to God either. When you could be praying for strength, guidance, etc. you are wasting your time moving your lips with something that doesn't help you. This is not an orderly, or godly manifestation. So, during the time of prayer, while you are praying, you have in fact understood 0 of it, and therefore have no fruits to show you just prayed, nor do they manifest in your life.

 

[KingJ]

Serious Question: Is barking like a dog, making jungle animal or farm animal noises a manifestation of the Holy Spirit?

NO. The Holy Spirit is a gentlemen. He will NOT embarrass us. We however are more then capable of embarrassing ourselves.

 

[veteran]

It has certainly been established that during excorcisms the posessed will often make animal sounds and sometimes even crawl around like an animal

Many of the occultic tribal jungle dancers work themselves into a frenzy and then proceed to act and sound like animals.

A hypnotist can make a room full of people sound and act like animals

A lot of "evangelists" use hypnotic tactics to influence people

Most often the end result is opening the wallets of the people under the hypnotic spell

Remove the revenue from most of those so called "ministries" and observe the results.

A sucker is born every minute

Some of the suckers are christians

They are the easiest to manipulate because of the trust of anything flying under the "christian banner"

It is better to be born again , than to be a born sucker.

Being able to bark like a dog is not a prerequisite to get to heaven

Nor does the bible list barking as a talent of The Holy Spirit

And if you'll pay close attention to those like Rodney Brown, the working is by repetitious subtle suggestions, which is a method of hypnosis. This is why it was said his revivals last up to around 6 hours.

I recall my wife having been invited by an friend to a church, and she said they did nothing but play music for about two hours. Then the pastor came out to the pulpit, looked the congregation over, and stretched out his arm and hand to them. She said her friend and many in the church fell backward on the floor. Her husband was telling her to get up. That's when I did a Bible study to see if there were any Bible examples of this phenomenon with Christ's servants. The only ones I found it occurred to were those outside Christ, or situations not in the positive (1 Samuel 4; Isa.28:13).


John 18:3-6
3 Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon Him, went forth, and said unto them, "Whom seek ye?"
5 They answered Him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus saith unto them, "I am He." And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them.
6 As soon then as He had said unto them, "I am He", they went backward, and fell to the ground.
(KJV)

The various examples of falling backward in God's Word are not in the positive sense.

whoever made those videos is twisting things to say what they want

you people are a bunch of suckers

yes you are

They are not twisting things. These manifestations are very real, and because they are marvels it's real easy to get trapped into thinking they're from God when they are not.

If you ever find yourself in a Church that does things to set the 'mood', driving the emotions up for the sole purpose of creating such manifestations, and using a lot of repetitions of something, then run, don't walk to the nearest exist, run!

God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as it is in all of Christ's Churches. Those kind of manifestations are far from God's peace. And they certainly would not put someone in a mental ward IF it were of The Holy Spirit.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Veteran

I should have said it different ..... the person who narrarates the video is himself twisting the words of benny Hinn and others .... this is wrong in my opinion ..... but otherwise I endorse the video as a good educational eye-opener that should make us very cautious about these "Laughter" ministries.

By the way the Toronto airport church (where the whole laughing thing started) takes in over 6-7 million dollars A YEAR !!!!!

Thus my comment about revenue most likely being the motive. I do not feel it is the Holy Spirit in action

I also agree veteran , with what you said about people being thrown to the floor .... the only time I found anything like it in the new testament it was demons throwing people down

 

[williemac]

You are missing the contrast that is being made. He is showing that it is not helpful to the church of God whatsoever, to "pray in tongues" -- different tongues -- does not help you at all. You gain nothing from it, your understanding is unfruitful, and it is written, "by their fruits". This is not saying there is a completely different form and style of tongues altogether. It is showing how speaking in a language you don't understand does absolutely nothing. And making random sounds and calling it tongues does not say anything to God either. When you could be praying for strength, guidance, etc. you are wasting your time moving your lips with something that doesn't help you. This is not an orderly, or godly manifestation. So, during the time of prayer, while you are praying, you have in fact understood 0 of it, and therefore have no fruits to show you just prayed, nor do they manifest in your life.

O, but maybe you haven't thought this through, my friend. What Paul was describing was in fact a real gift of the Spirit. He admitted that though a person's understanding was/is unfruitful, nonetheless he is in fact, praying in tongues. This was not a counterfeit. He also informed them/us, that when a person speaks in a tongue, he does not speak to men but to God. And furthermore, he is speaking mysteries. So now we have a bit of a conundrum, according to your take on it: For It seems that the Holy Spirit has gifted men to speak mysteries to God in an unknown tongue. So if this is not what is intended by the gift, then why was/is the Holy Spirit going along with it? This is not something a man can do from his own ability, don't forget. Tongues is a gift. And as well, if it is being done privately between a man and God, as Paul validated in 14:28 (1Cor.), then how is it disorderly? And how do you say it doesn't help that man, when Paul stated that it edifies him (vs.4)? Just because he didn't say how it edifies, doesn't mean that it doesn't edify. As well, I have no obligation to you, myself, or God, to show or prove that my praying in tongues is bearing fruit. My obligation is to merely trust Him in the gift.

 

[IanLC]

Point and blank period there are people that have genuinely accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and live changed lives that have experienced manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

 

[marksman]

fire tunnels are a dangerous thing - well they can be...years ago at TACF my husbands ministry partner went though a fire tunnel and after a crazy out burst which included loud shrieking and violent physical manifestations - she went awol for weeks. when she finally returned and met with my husband she was a different woman - mentally unstable - needed to be committed to a hospital. after she was released she traveled to india where she is to this day - no longer a Christian.

It is beyond my comprehension how Christians have the temerity to rubbish what they don't understand by saying "I know someone" and then suggest that that one person's experience is the basis for everything to do with that subject.

In my 58 years as a Christian I have seen good and bad in everything, but I am mature enough to know that the bad of one person does not by any stretch of the imagination, invalidate the good of thousands.

To dismiss the work of the Holy Spirit because of one person's experience is to say the least very immature and quite frankly, not worthy of consideration.

 

[Rex]

Heres a clip of the Toronto laughter manifestation that was sweeping the charismatic churches.
anyone have a bible verse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn6FF5nhTSs

 

[veteran]

Veteran

I should have said it different ..... the person who narrarates the video is himself twisting the words of benny Hinn and others .... this is wrong in my opinion ..... but otherwise I endorse the video as a good educational eye-opener that should make us very cautious about these "Laughter" ministries.

By the way the Toronto airport church (where the whole laughing thing started) takes in over 6-7 million dollars A YEAR !!!!!

Thus my comment about revenue most likely being the motive. I do not feel it is the Holy Spirit in action

I also agree veteran , with what you said about people being thrown to the floor .... the only time I found anything like it in the new testament it was demons throwing people down

I realize what you mean, and some of that may be true, but not all of those examples were.

Someone post the Kundalini clip that I was actually looking for. It gives solid evidence that the manifestations of uncontrollable shaking of the body manifests in pagan religion.

I hate to offend sincere brethren, but many simply are not aware of how occult mystics have crept into Christ's Church. Even the Christian scholar Sandeen when commenting on John Darby's pre-trib rapture idea, Illuminati members were noted to be in Darby's church in 1830's Britain, and were quoting Scripture about the end. We should not be surprised by these things since Apostles Paul and Peter well warned us about these "seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" that would come (1 Timothy 4; 2 Peter 2).

I met a girl at my work once that went to a Charismatic church. She was reading a 16th century work by Jacob Boheme her church recommended. Boheme was a poor shoe cobbler, but he dabbled in mysticism. At that time I knew initiatic fraternities like the Rosicrucian Order (AMORC) also recommended reading Boheme's mystic works. From those I knew they even said Boheme was a member of the Rosicrucian society in 16th century Europe.

The thing many today do not realize with such practices of mysticism infiltrating the Churches is how subtle the mystic movement is, which is why that Kundalini video reveals some within today's Charismatic movements associated directly with New Age occultism. Those mystics appear ordinary and harmless on the outside, and they can come from just about any walk in life. So it's impossible to recognize them by outward appearances.

In one example of a church in that Kundalini video, one under a manifestation is repetitously beating on a drum. They might as well sacrifice a bull and build a big bonfire and dance around it, because that kind of manifestation is directly associated with ancient pagan primordial worship.

So like I said before, ANYTHING involving repetitious religious worship in today's Churches should be held with huge suspicion, because that's what paganism used to induce trance-like states under the influence of hypnosis. Hypnotic suggestions are a reality because back in the 1970's Congress passed a law against using subliminal advertising the industry was found guilty of (see Subliminal Seduction by William Key). I HIGHLY recommend every Christian believer become familiar with that work, because it exposes how the modern advertising mult-billion dollar industry uses psychology and mind control.

It is beyond my comprehension how Christians have the temerity to rubbish what they don't understand by saying "I know someone" and then suggest that that one person's experience is the basis for everything to do with that subject.

In my 58 years as a Christian I have seen good and bad in everything, but I am mature enough to know that the bad of one person does not by any stretch of the imagination, invalidate the good of thousands.

To dismiss the work of the Holy Spirit because of one person's experience is to say the least very immature and quite frankly, not worthy of consideration.

Don't have to reference just one person with this matter; paganism's manifestations have been documented (Golden Bough). That Kundalini video clip gives direct evidence, especially with that one beating the drum while in a stupor. Anyone claiming the beating of a drum in Church service and writhing uncontrollably, dancing uncontrollably, is of The Holy Spirit show ignorance of what paganism is about.

 

[marksman]

Don't have to reference just one person with this matter; paganism's manifestations have been documented (Golden Bough). That Kundalini video clip gives direct evidence, especially with that one beating the drum while in a stupor. Anyone claiming the beating of a drum in Church service and writhing uncontrollably, dancing uncontrollably, is of The Holy Spirit show ignorance of what paganism is about.

Actually you are proving my point as what you say is based on one video clip.

So like I said before, ANYTHING involving repetitious religious worship in today's Churches should be held with huge suspicion

This claim means that nearly every church service is to be treated with suspicion as most of them do the same thing week in and week out without variation some of them for 500 years.