Man's Works Burned Off the Earth at Jesus' Coming

[Davy]

I don't believe there is much difference in saying the Antichrist is completely empowered by Satan and saying the Antichrist *is* Satan. What's the point? Why is that so important?

Well yes there is a difference, a HUGE difference.

Believing that the coming Antichrist will be just another flesh man with Satan's influence like past history usurps what Satan intends to do for the end of this world.

What flesh pretender of being God or Christ of past history was able to work the great signs, wonders, and miracles that Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about with the Antichrist for the end? None. The past history flesh fakers could not do those miracles. And that is what makes distinguishing the difference between a flesh antichrist vs. Satan himself as the antichrist.

The antichrist for the end is pointing to a 'supernatural' entity.

That is why it is written that coming final antichrist will deceive the whole world, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 13:4-8).

That was also Christ's Message in Matthew 24:24, which the "false Christs" (KJV) is actually Greek pseudo-christos which means a singular false Christ. That is the context of the Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture, be forewarned when others come up to you say, "Lo, Christ is here; or there", and Jesus said to believe it not.

Paul in 2 Thess.2:4 showed he will exalt himself as God, and over all that called God, or that is worshiped. That is HUGE... simply because means the faiths of ALL religions on earth for who they believe God is. For the unbelieving Jews, they will believe he is Messiah. For many of us Christians, he will be Jesus having returned for the deceived.

And Satan can... work those great signs, wonders, and miracles on earth, raining fire from heaven down to the earth in sight of man (Rev.13). He can easily do that because he is supernatural. This is why Lord Jesus said that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, he would deceive even Christ's very elect. Thing is, Christ's very elect, His chosen for the end, cannot be deceived, for He has already shown those.

How can all this be possible, one might ask? It's simple, and God in His Word has shown us this, so this isn't a teaching from men, it is God's written Word....

In the old world, before this present world (even prior to Adam and Eve), before Satan rebelled in coveting God's Throne, God had made Satan perfect in his ways. This is revealed in the Ezekiel 28 parables about the prince and king of Tyrus (means 'rock', another title for Satan, the little 'rock' of Deut.32:31). Genesis 2 reveals that God's Abode was once upon this earth. Revelation 21 & 22 reveals God's Abode will return to this earth, to live with us.

So just as Satan originally rebelled in trying to be God, likewise at the end of this world God is going to allow Satan to do it again, and God is going to use that as a major pruning of the rebellious who refuse to listen to Him. This is why Satan himself... is coming at the end of this world as the antichrist, and not just some fleshy antichrist coming with Satan only hidden behind him.

 

[Davy]

My point was not to claim you are a prophet, but to show how a prophet operates within his heart. He has the love of God and is obeying God out of love--not out of personal animosity towards those who are rebelling against God.

Yes, we can share with God some emotional spite against those who rebel because often they are doing despicable things, committing crimes against humanity, doing deplorable things against their fellow man. However, the moment we go beyond God's anger to depicting our own personal angry, we lose the Spirit. We lose all sense of God's wrath when we pivot away from Him to our own personal battles.

Yea, you can only weep when you've been dealt with successfully by God. When you come to the end of yourself, you weep with God and laugh with God. It is all about conformity with Christ. And Christ wept over Jerusalem even as he called for judgment against it.

And my response basically was, that I don't believe in modern day prophets. I do not treat a Christian being guided by The Holy Spirit today meaning one is a prophet.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well yes there is a difference, a HUGE difference.

I beg to differ.

Believing that the coming Antichrist will be just another flesh man with Satan's influence like past history usurps what Satan intends to do for the end of this world.

What flesh pretender of being God or Christ of past history was able to work the great signs, wonders, and miracles that Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us about with the Antichrist for the end? None. The past history flesh fakers could not do those miracles. And that is what makes distinguishing the difference between a flesh antichrist vs. Satan himself as the antichrist.

This really depends on how you interpret "signs and wonders?" I think Satan has been working a long time. He hasn't just been waiting for the end of time to start doing "miracles" and "wonders!" Do you think, for example, that Satan was "holding back" when he inspired the Jewish mob and the Roman Pilate to crucify Jesus?

No, they were all deceived by Satan, whose operations convinced these people that they were doing the right thing. They felt they were "on the right side of history," and that their ability to succeed was truly a "sign" and a "wonder."

The antichrist for the end is pointing to a 'supernatural' entity.

Yes, a man filled with and inspired by Satan is a man acting with "supernatural" power! Again, this is a distinction without a difference, in my opinion.

That is why it is written that coming final antichrist will deceive the whole world, excepting Christ's elect (Revelation 13:4-8).

Well, that's already true. The non-Christian world believes that their own autonomous existence is normal, and that their sense of what is "good" is truly good. They are deceived presently by Satan. This doesn't await the Eschaton!

That was also Christ's Message in Matthew 24:24, which the "false Christs" (KJV) is actually Greek pseudo-christos which means a singular false Christ. That is the context of the Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture, be forewarned when others come up to you say, "Lo, Christ is here; or there", and Jesus said to believe it not.

I already addressed that. There were pseudo-Christs in Jesus' day. And before the fall of Jerusalem there were Jewish leaders and pretend prophets who declared a "holy war" on the Romans, predicting victory. Initially, they seem to be "inspired" and "successful." In the end many of them were dead, and all succumbed to the power of Rome.

Paul in 2 Thess.2:4 showed he will exalt himself as God, and over all that called God, or that is worshiped. That is HUGE... simply because means the faiths of ALL religions on earth for who they believe God is. For the unbelieving Jews, they will believe he is Messiah. For many of us Christians, he will be Jesus having returned for the deceived.

Yes, that's "huge," but it has nothing to do with distinguishing between whether Satan inspires a man or Satan is the man!

And Satan can... work those great signs, wonders, and miracles on earth, raining fire from heaven down to the earth in sight of man (Rev.13). He can easily do that because he is supernatural. This is why Lord Jesus said that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, he would deceive even Christ's very elect. Thing is, Christ's very elect, His chosen for the end, cannot be deceived, for He has already shown those.

Elijah did supernatural miracles, and he did not have to be God to do this. He was simply called by God to participate in His demonstration of power. So the power is supernatural, and the agent is human.

How can all this be possible, one might ask? It's simple, and God in His Word has shown us this, so this isn't a teaching from men, it is God's written Word....

No, it is "your wisdom." Nothing in the Bible indicates the Antichrist is anything other than a man, who is inspired by Satan. Satan gives his power not just to Antichrist but to the entire Empire he presides over.

 

[Randy Kluth]

And my response basically was, that I don't believe in modern day prophets. I do not treat a Christian being guided by The Holy Spirit today meaning one is a prophet.

You're missing my point. I wasn't saying you were a prophet and I wasn't asking if you believe in prophets today! I was talking about OT Prophets, and asking my teacher how the Hebrews could know some self-proclaimed prophet was a true Prophet of God?

And her answer shows the sensitivity we should have today when ministering the word of God. We should do so with a sense of God's love for the lost, whether or not they are in sin.

We need to have good character if our message is to be received properly. Otherwise, people will think the word of God is to be used as a weapon to abuse people.

Brother, I'm personally aware of my own shortfalls in this. It doesn't take much, at times, to upset me, and when I get too wrapped up in myself, and not in the Lord, I begin to abuse others, including as I speak on behalf of God's word. I have to repent when I do this.

 

[Davy]

I beg to differ.

You can differ all you want, but what I told you is what God's Word reveals, and is not my opinion. Maybe you need a reminder...

Matt 24:23-26
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs (NT:5580), and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert; go not forth: behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

Only Christ's very elect have their names written in that "book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." It's pointing to how these cannot be deceived by that "dragon" when he comes (which is just another title for Satan himself).

 

[Davy]

This really depends on how you interpret "signs and wonders?" I think Satan has been working a long time. He hasn't just been waiting for the end of time to start doing "miracles" and "wonders!" Do you think, for example, that Satan was "holding back" when he inspired the Jewish mob and the Roman Pilate to crucify Jesus?

So there you are just passing off Christ's warning about those 'great signs and wonders' as if they don't really mean anything, when He was specifically giving that in relation to how it could almost deceive even His very elect.

Matt 24:24
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

That idea is that those great signs and wonders will be so powerful in deception that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, would deceive Christ's very elect.

That is not something to simply pass off as if Jesus did not really mean what He said there. And He gave comparison there about the power of deception of those great signs and wonders being so powerful, that if it were possible, it would deceive even His very elect. That is not to be considered lightly.

So you can try... to change that Scripture if you want so it will fit a doctrine of men, but it won't change that coming miracle working on earth by Satan when he gets here.

 

[Davy]

No, they were all deceived by Satan, whose operations convinced these people that they were doing the right thing. They felt they were "on the right side of history," and that their ability to succeed was truly a "sign" and a "wonder."

With past false ones who tried to play God, Satan was working behind them. Even the Revelation 17:10-11 section reveals this, with Satan working behind those previous beast kings. But Revelation 17:8 & 11 verses reveals the 7th beast king will be Satan himself. How? Because that of Rev.17:8 SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT. And if you say that is NOT about Satan himself, then I will have to laugh at your doctrine from men you follow.

 

[Davy]

Yes, a man filled with and inspired by Satan is a man acting with "supernatural" power! Again, this is a distinction without a difference, in my opinion.

There again, you show that you cannot understand the difference between the two dimensions, this earthly one and the heavenly one.

What did the two angels of Genesis 19 do when the sodomites demanded that Lot bring the two angels outside so they could 'know' them? Can flesh man work those kind of miracles?

The "great signs and wonders" and "miracles" of Rev.13 we are shown is what will specifically DECEIVE the whole world...

Rev 13:11-14
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

A 2nd beast, and he is to appear like Jesus ("like a lamb"), but speak like the "dragon" (another title for Satan). He comes up out of the earth? Who is Rev.17:8 pointing to that comes up out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT AND GOES INTO PERDITION? That is about Satan himself, for he is the angel and king over the bottomless pit (Rev.9). And the idea 'perdition' attached to him is because Satan and his angels ONLY have already been judged and sentenced to perdition in the future "lake of fire". No flesh born man has been judged to perdition yet today, not even Judas Iscariot.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
KJV

That ain't... gonna' be some flesh man doing those miracles. It will be the beast that ascends up out of the bottomless pit, i.e., Satan, the dragon, and it will even be Satan himself in Jerusalem, setup as king over all nations by the deceived Jews who will believe he is Messiah.

So why would you try to hide all this which is written in God's Word? What are you following instead?

 

[Davy]

Well, that's already true. The non-Christian world believes that their own autonomous existence is normal, and that their sense of what is "good" is truly good. They are deceived presently by Satan. This doesn't await the Eschaton!

You're getting your timings mixed up. Today is not... the time yet for that working by the "another beast" and the miracles he will do on earth, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men. That is set for the future "great tribulation" timing. So no, your association with today, or the past is simply going against that future Rev.13 and Matt.24 prophecy. When you see the future "one world government" finally completed, and Messiah presented, then you can start looking for that miracle working that will deceive the whole world.

 

[rockytopva]

If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) mass can turn to plasma

Energy (E/c2) = Mass (m) plasma can reform to mass

However to God's liking... No man being his counsellor. Even so... How would we advise on how to make creation? God will… In the last days of this world… Once again disassociate the mass into plasma and do something else with it!

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. - 1 Corinthians 3

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. - 2 Peter 3

 

[Davy]

I already addressed that. There were pseudo-Christs in Jesus' day. And before the fall of Jerusalem there were Jewish leaders and pretend prophets who declared a "holy war" on the Romans, predicting victory. Initially, they seem to be "inspired" and "successful." In the end many of them were dead, and all succumbed to the power of Rome.

Ah... there it is. You favor men's false doctrines of Preterism. To think Lord Jesus in Matthew 24 was giving prophecy for HIS DAY, or for 70 A.D., is one of the doctrines of man's seminary doctrine of Preterism, which is a false doctrine.

Jesus was pointing to the time of "great tribulation" about the END of this world in those Matthew 24 Scriptures about the coming antichrist, not about the Romans of Jesus' day, nor the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

Well, I've already shown you what the Scriptures are actually pointing to about the coming false one at the end of this world, but the doctrines of men you're on causes you to reject those Scriptures, and try to turn them into some false story that don't even keep... the context of those verses. That means you are doing a serious error with God's Word as written. It means you are rejecting what His Word says.

 

[Davy]

You're missing my point. I wasn't saying you were a prophet and I wasn't asking if you believe in prophets today! I was talking about OT Prophets, and asking my teacher how the Hebrews could know some self-proclaimed prophet was a true Prophet of God?

And her answer shows the sensitivity we should have today when ministering the word of God. We should do so with a sense of God's love for the lost, whether or not they are in sin.

We need to have good character if our message is to be received properly. Otherwise, people will think the word of God is to be used as a weapon to abuse people.

Brother, I'm personally aware of my own shortfalls in this. It doesn't take much, at times, to upset me, and when I get too wrapped up in myself, and not in the Lord, I begin to abuse others, including as I speak on behalf of God's word. I have to repent when I do this.

I don't have much patience for those that follow men's doctrines instead of the simplicity of God's Word. When I find someone who flat rejects a written Scripture, especially when God gave examples easy to understand that go with it, then those may expect to receive a rebuke, and I could care less if they think it's just my opinion or not. There are many others here smart enough to recognize when someone flat rejects a Scripture as written, so I don't know why those doing that think they are fooling folks.

 

[Davy]

And brethren in Christ, it is important to remember that NO FLESH MAN claiming to be Christ has ever done the miracle working God's Word reveals in Revelation 13:11 forward about the coming "another beast" for the end of this world.

The Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture is also about the coming SINGULAR ANTICHRIST for the END that will work those miracles on earth, that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, would deceive even Christ's very elect. That passage was given within... the "great tribulation" warning Jesus gave His Church for the end of this world. So that great miracle working by the "dragon" on this earth has not happened yet today.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't have much patience for those that follow men's doctrines instead of the simplicity of God's Word. When I find someone who flat rejects a written Scripture, especially when God gave examples easy to understand that go with it, then those may expect to receive a rebuke, and I could care less if they think it's just my opinion or not. There are many others here smart enough to recognize when someone flat rejects a Scripture as written, so I don't know why those doing that think they are fooling folks.

I'm discovering that guys like you and Truth are nothing but trouble-makers who think they are good Christians because they know the Bible. You don't really know the Bible if you can't preach and teach the *love* of Christ.

 

[WPM]

Lord Jesus Christ will return in like manner as He ascended to Heaven, as per Acts 1. And per Zechariah 14 is revealed His FUTURE RETURN back to this earth, to the SAME spot on earth where He ascended, per Acts 1.

And on THAT day, is when man's works are burned off this earth per Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:10, on the "day of the Lord"! Too bad you don't like that as written, but that is GOD TALKING through His prophet Zechariah, and His Apostle Peter, not me...

2 Thess 1:7-10
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power;
10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
KJV


Zech 14:1-5
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

Zechariah 14 does not read "the day of the Lord" but "a day is coming unto the Lord." Big difference. So much false teaching has emanated from that faulty translation. It is actually talking about the First Advent.

 

[Davy]

I'm discovering that guys like you and Truth are nothing but trouble-makers who think they are good Christians because they know the Bible. You don't really know the Bible if you can't preach and teach the *love* of Christ.

Thanks for revealing yourself as working against Christ Jesus with your pushing of men's false doctrines, which are the REAL trouble-makers, and are the real imposters of claiming to understand God's Word, because they show God did not give it to them, which is WHY... they cannot even properly read the simple Scripture and stick to what it says!

 

[rockytopva]

Guys... This thread is labeled "Man's Works Burned Off the Earth at Jesus' Coming" and not "Christianity as I see it." Please keep your posts on topic!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thanks for revealing yourself as working against Christ Jesus with your pushing of men's false doctrines, which are the REAL trouble-makers, and are the real imposters of claiming to understand God's Word, because they show God did not give it to them, which is WHY... they cannot even properly read the simple Scripture and stick to what it says!

Rev 2.I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.

It's too easy, if God has graced you with some intelligence, to belittle others and to beat them up with "truth." But it's much more difficult to give way to God's love in place of that. Our life is one of humble submission to the Lord. And we should encourage one another to do that, as difficult as it is.

 

[Davy]

Rev 2.I know that you cannot tolerate wicked people, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3 You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.
4 Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first.

It's too easy, if God has graced you with some intelligence, to belittle others and to beat them up with "truth." But it's much more difficult to give way to God's love in place of that. Our life is one of humble submission to the Lord. And we should encourage one another to do that, as difficult as it is.

Welcome to my IGNORE LIST, deceiver.

 

[Keraz]

Guys... This thread is labeled "Man's Works Burned Off the Earth at Jesus' Coming" and not "Christianity as I see it." Please keep your posts on topic!

Yes, and as I have already posted: This will not happen.
The 3 proof texts about the glorious Return of Jesus, do not say He will burn anything then. Zechariah 14:4' Matthew 24:29-30, Revelation 19:11-21
It will be the Lord's terrible Day of fiery wrath, which will come to change the world. At least 10 years before the Return.

As for putting other posters on ignore; doing that just shows people have no answers to their; as you see it - errors.