Man's Works Burned Off the Earth at Jesus' Coming

[Davy]

You're only seeing the Day of the Lord from what is written in the New Testament. Why does James in the book of Acts, quoting Peter, tell us that at Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out is fulfillment of the prophet Joel? The Day of the Lord will indeed come again, but not to usher in another one thousand years of time, but His coming then will be with wrath and to bring judgment unto this earth.

That's certainly confused...

The "day of the Lord" which Apostles Paul and Peter pronounced is for the LAST DAY of this present world, NOT back in history. It is NOT associated with Pentecost, so if you're trying to quote Joel 2 that Peter mentioned in Acts 2, you might try going to Joel 2:31 to notice this in red...

Joel 2:29-31
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

 

[rwb]

That's certainly confused...

The "day of the Lord" which Apostles Paul and Peter pronounced is for the LAST DAY of this present world, NOT back in history. It is NOT associated with Pentecost, so if you're trying to quote Joel 2 that Peter mentioned in Acts 2, you might try going to Joel 2:31 to notice this in red...

Joel 2:29-31
29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

What you fail to acknowledge is how Joel's prophesy includes both the Day of the Lord that came with power at Pentecost, as well as the "great and the terrible day of the Lord" that will come on the last day of the Lord when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more.

All these signs shall be before the great and the terrible day of the Lord comes on the last day of the Lord, the end of this age of time. You fail to recognize the Day of the Lord came with great power from the Almighty so the Kingdom could be built as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. Then the final/last Day of the Lord will come not for building the Kingdom through the Gospel sent in the power of the Holy Spirit, but with judgment and great wrath against all who remain in unbelief.

Matthew 24:29-30 (KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[WPM]

Sheer speculative nonsense!
Revelation 20 follows on from Rev 19, the glorious Return of Jesus as King of Kings and Lord of Lords,
He comes to take up His reign, as we are plainly told; for the next thousand years. It is His reward from God. Psalms 2:7=8
That thousand years is the final period of the 7000 years which God has decreed for mankind.
Proved by the nearly 6000 years having passed now.

Your virulent attacks against anyone who refutes your beliefs, puts you in a very bad light. God has already put people who choose to believe false teachings under a spirit of confusion; Isaiah 29:9-12, and as a wise and learned person, Matthew 11:25-26, the truths of the Prophetic Word are hidden from you.

This lack of understanding applies to almost everyone, Daniel 12:10b, as it is God's intention to surprise and shock the world, when He sends His fiery wrath to change the world and commence all the prophesied things that will make His enemies His footstool, before He reigns in Jerusalem for the next 1000 years.

That 7000 years invented scheme you promote has been repeatedly proved to be a fallacy. No such thing as "Gods 7000 year Plan." It is Keras's 7000 year Plan. It is extra-biblical and anti-biblical.

 

[ScottA]

I'll give an example of the false Amillennialist theories you are on, right here and now.

Your above statement is suggesting that Apostle Peter's "elements" with the destruction of man's works he declared on the "day of the Lord" like it already... happened... when IT DID NOT YET!

Just in case you did not 'hear' me -- The 2 Peter 3:10 Scripture HAS NOT HAPPENED YET TODAY!

To lie and say it has, is to heed men's doctrines that TRY to say that was fulfilled already, when even Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul ALSO showed that "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" is for the LAST DAY of this present world! And if you say it is not, then you LIE against The Scriptures.

How can one be SURE that 2 Peter 3:10 event for the "day of the Lord" has not happened yet today? Simple, because it says that is when MAN'S WORKS are burned off this earth! Does anyone want to stick their foot in their mouth with telling a LIE, and say man's works have been burned off this earth already today???

Likewise, I have told you many times that you do not understand, and it is still obvious that you do not.

• At first Jesus said that his day had not yet come (when Mary asked Him to help with the wine at the wedding}. After which He did say His time had come prior to going to the cross. Day, time, hour...same word. Which Peter speaking in 2 Peter 3:10 knew, but he was speaking to those who were not yet secure in the faith, for he first warned them of false teachers coming into the church, that they should hear rather from the Spirit than from evil men who would come to say "My master is delaying his coming."
• Now Jesus' coming was not to be what was "expected", but come "as a thief" and not when "expected."
• Jesus said He was coming "soon" and foretold all of what would "shortly take place", but as yourself--most "expected" to see His coming as the world sees, and therefore denied that it had ever occurred, even speaking out of both sides of their mouth saying that Jesus had come into them, but also that He had not, and thus looked to the future believing rather that "My master delays his coming" just as He warned about, stating plainly that such a person was an "evil servant."
• But how could this be? Just as He explained, saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Meaning that His coming was not to be "in the flesh" as "expected", but rather as it should be--that is, in the glory and spirit of God whom is spirit; which is what was meant by Him returning "in like manner", meaning that just as the Spirit had lit upon Him and did not depart, that is what was seen when He departed--and thus, in like manner He would come in to those who answered His knock at the door, not in His flesh body that He had given over to the church to be His own body, but to enter into that body which He had given again by the Holy Spirit.
• However, all of that was what "you do not expect", and thus the warnings--which you did not heed.

But that does not mean that He has come and that He comes no more as if it were over (of which you wrongly accuse me)--no, but rather, He comes to everyone as Paul explained, "but each on in his own order." So, when I say you do not understand, it is not because it is not written, but rather that you have not fully considered and believed it all...or you would not "expect" Him to come as you obviously do 'expect" Him to come, which He said would not be the case. "Expecting" is the proof of error He warned about.

As for 2 Peter 3:10 not yet occurring--those things which Peter described is exactly what occurs when anyone opens the door when Jesus knocks. But what you have not understood, is that there is an exception made for those Paul defined as "we who are alive and remain." Those who believe but do not open the door to Jesus when He knocks, die before seeing all that Peter described of that day of the Lord. But those who do open the door and He comes into them and them in He, they reign with Him until they pass from this world, at which time they too see all that Peter has described--which time of reign is not counted as men count but as God counts, as no time has actually passed. But those who do not open die the second death, while those open have died already. Therefore it is written, "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

All of which will have no ill effect on you unless you speak against it, which is to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, also warned about.

 

[Keraz]

THIS is the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. A few years later will come the Great Day when Jesus Returns.

Isaiah 34:5-8 The Lord has a Day of vengeance, the Redeemer of Zion has a time for retribution. His sword will appear in the sky, see how it descends in judgement onto a people whom the Lord has doomed to destruction. Great will be the slaughter in Edom and He has a sacrifice in Bozrah, His sword of punishment will be sated with blood, the earth will drink deeply of their blood.

Isaiah 63:1-6 Who is this, coming from Bozrah and Edom with His garments splashed with blood, striding along in His mighty power? It is the Lord, proclaiming victory, He who is strong to save. He treads the winepress of the nations, with no one to help Him. He tramples them in His fury, shatters them in His anger and spills their blood all over the ground. The Lord has resolved on a Day of vengeance, because the year for redeeming His own has come.

Jeremiah 49:12-13 & 22 These are the Words of the Lord: Those who were not doomed to drink the cup of My wrath, must drink it none the less: are you alone to go unpunished? You will not be spared, I will judge you as well. I will swoop down upon Bozrah and on that Day, Edom will lose all their strength. I swear that Bozrah will become desolate, an object of reproach and all her towns will be ruined forever. [Not for all time, see: Ezekiel 36:33-36, Isaiah 61:4]

Amos 1:12 I shall send fire to consume the palaces of Bozrah. Ref: REB, NIV.


Bozrah – Hebrew = a sheepfold, also means: glad tidings. At present Bozrah can be identified as the place where the true descendants of Jacob currently side.
Edom – the descendants of Esau, a metaphor for non-Israelite peoples. Edom may represent every other nationality of the world.



‘The Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath’, Cannot the same Day as the Return of the Messiah. He will not be seen on His terrible Day of fiery wrath.

Psalms 11:4-6, Rev. 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-21, Isaiah 13:9-13, Isaiah 61:2b, Isaiah 66:15-16, Ezekiel 30:1-3, Joel 2:11 &31, Micah 5:15, Nahum 1:2-6, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Malachi 4:1, Romans 1:18, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10 It will be the Sixth Seal event, Revelation 6:12-17

‘His sword appears in the sky and descends in judgement’, Isaiah 30:25-28, Jeremiah 4:20-28, Jeremiah 23:19, Jeremiah 47:6-7, Jeremiah 50:35-38, Ezekiel 21:3-7 & 14-16

‘He treads the winepress of the nations’, Revelation 14:17-20, Jeremiah 9:21-22, Jeremiah 25:30-33, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Habakkuk 3:12, Psalm 65:1-3

‘I shall send fire’, Ezekiel 20:46-48, Joel 1:19-20, Amos 1:4,7,10,12,14. Amos 2:2,5. Obadiah 1:18, Zephaniah 3:8, Hebrews 10:27

‘I will judge you as well’, Ezekiel 23:32-34, Obadiah 1:16, Jeremiah 30:11, Ezekiel 7:1-27, Hosea 4:1-3, Hosea 12:2, Amos 4:12

‘The year for redeeming My own has come’, We are nearing the end of this age, the Lord will take action in His creation, as He did so long ago: in the days of Noah. Isaiah 66:15-16, Micah 5:10-15, Habakkuk 3:12, Ezekiel 7:14

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well, not after recognizing the Isaiah 25:6-9 Scripture where Paul was quoting about 'death swallowed up in victory' I don't see the last trump change being only about those in Christ Jesus. According to that, 1 Cor.15 cannot be applied both ways, not if one stays with what is written to include Isaiah 25 where Paul was quoting from.

This is how God's Word often is now days, because most Bibles today don't show when the New Testament is quoting the Old. So many don't bother looking back in the Old Testament quote which often gives more detail. That's what Isaiah 25 does with 'death swallowed up in victory', gives more detail of just how that is meant.

To be honest, I can't formulate an timeline from Isa 25 alone. The "mountain" Isaiah refers to appears to be the mountain of the house of the Lord, which refers to Jerusalem. And it was in Jerusalem that Jesus died and rose again, defeating death.

Now that doesn't mean Jesus' death alone is being referred to here, but the implication is that Jerusalem is where the initial act of restoration began. It will actually be completely fulfilled with the restoration of Israel, which has yet to take place. And at what point Israel herself obtains her resurrection the text doesn't say.

So I do see your point, but retain my current position. Rev 20 indicates there are two resurrections separated by a thousand years. And so, I'm left with that, barring any more information.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are so fixated with ethnic Israel and so obsessed with real estate in the Middle East that you miss who and what the Old Testament prophets were looking for. Even though the Old Testament explores many subjects, its grand overriding theme is Christ. In fact, the Messianic hope was at the heart of Old Testament Judaism. Despite this, the overwhelming majority of Jews missed their promised Messiah when He came. He did not fit their expectation of who and what the Messiah would be. They had a carnal earthly perspective of Messiah. The Jewish leaders – the Pharisees – had no true grasp of the Messiah’s overriding mission to Israel. They were so filled with religious pride and consumed with a sense of racial superiority that they missed the reason why Jesus actually came to earth. They were so deluded with the hope of Messiah ushering in nationalist dominance that they failed to see the redemptive aspect of Christ’s earthly ministry.

I'm not at all obsessed with ethnic Israel. The Bible and the Prophets were chalk full of information about Israel and their Hope.

I'm fully aware of Israel's situation at the time Jesus came. They were in a terrible sinful state, one that was not always the case. It just happened that Messiah came to them at their lowest spiritual state, probably so that he could demonstrate the greatest depth of his love.

It was a redemptive love, one that doesn't cast off the hope of an entire nation because of the compromised position they found themselves in. God is still able to restore them, by separating the sheep and the goats, and then establishing the nation on a proper foundation.

Unlike many Premills, who place Israel virtually over the entire Millennial world, I don't do this. Israel is focused upon because God made her the model of His grace.

And so, now that God has graciously shown pagan nations the means of becoming Christian nations, now God will show grace to pagan Israel to demonstrate the depths of His grace. And Christian nations that have been backsliding back into paganism can also be restored at Christ's Coming by that same grace.

But I would agree with you on at least two things here. One, Israel will not be exalted over the nations. That is indeed an unhealthy obsession with Israel. The OT Prophets only promised that Israel will be exalted over her "abusive" international enemies. Christians are promised the very same thing.

And two, I agree that we should not focus only on the kind of religion that the Jews exhibited at Christ's 1st Coming. Israel and many Hebrews were not always that way.

We should not focus on the Law, as a now-outmoded instrument, nor on the importance of ethnicity in matters of a covenant relationship with God. Covenant relationship now is governed not by ethnic separation but rather by loyalty to Christ and by separation from paganism. And soo, I agree. Our focus should be on Christ in matters of covenant relationship.

I don't believe Israel always had this "carnal" focus on religion, however. There have been many faithful Hebrews under the Law before they fell into the condition they had at the time of Christ's 1st Coming. Israel's history has been a checkered past, and we should not just characterize them all and their whole history as it was in the time of Christ's earthly ministry!

All nations are destined to suffer decline following a covenant relationship with God,, including both Israel under the Law or Christian nations under the Law of Christ. Sin simply "leavens the whole lump" in all nations, and the best of nations suffer decline, just as Israel did.

But that should not, I think, cause us to give up hope that God can fix these things, restoring not just individuals but entire national systems and societies. God can reformulate Christian nations in the future, if He has done so in the past. But the Prophets predicted a time would come when God would restore such fallen nations permanently. I think it will take a Millennium to do this. You do not.

 

[Truth7t7]

I'm not at all obsessed with ethnic Israel. The Bible and the Prophets were chalk full of information about Israel and their Hope.

I'm fully aware of Israel's situation at the time Jesus came. They were in a terrible sinful state, one that was not always the case. It just happened that Messiah came to them at their lowest spiritual state, probably so that he could demonstrate the greatest depth of his love.

It was a redemptive love, one that doesn't cast off the hope of an entire nation because of the compromised position they found themselves in. God is still able to restore them, by separating the sheep and the goats, and then establishing the nation on a proper foundation.

Unlike many Premills, who place Israel virtually over the entire Millennial world, I don't do this. Israel is focused upon because God made her the model of His grace.

And so, now that God has graciously shown pagan nations the means of becoming Christian nations, now God will show grace to pagan Israel to demonstrate the depths of His grace. And Christian nations that have been backsliding back into paganism can also be restored at Christ's Coming by that same grace.

But I would agree with you on at least two things here. One, Israel will not be exalted over the nations. That is indeed an unhealthy obsession with Israel. The OT Prophets only promised that Israel will be exalted over her "abusive" international enemies. Christians are promised the very same thing.

And two, I agree that we should not focus only on the kind of religion that the Jews exhibited at Christ's 1st Coming. Israel and many Hebrews were not always that way.

We should not focus on the Law, as a now-outmoded instrument, nor on the importance of ethnicity in matters of a covenant relationship with God. Covenant relationship now is governed not by ethnic separation but rather by loyalty to Christ and by separation from paganism. And soo, I agree. Our focus should be on Christ in matters of covenant relationship.

I don't believe Israel always had this "carnal" focus on religion, however. There have been many faithful Hebrews under the Law before they fell into the condition they had at the time of Christ's 1st Coming. Israel's history has been a checkered past, and we should not just characterize them all and their whole history as it was in the time of Christ's earthly ministry!

All nations are destined to suffer decline following a covenant relationship with God,, including both Israel under the Law or Christian nations under the Law of Christ. Sin simply "leavens the whole lump" in all nations, and the best of nations suffer decline, just as Israel did.

But that should not, I think, cause us to give up hope that God can fix these things, restoring not just individuals but entire national systems and societies. God can reformulate Christian nations in the future, if He has done so in the past. But the Prophets predicted a time would come when God would restore such fallen nations permanently. I think it will take a Millennium to do this. You do not.

Your claims are complete fiction, found no place in scripture

 

[Timtofly]

I believe the Day of the Lord is the day of Jesus' Coming, and it begins with Armageddon.

The Day of the Lord is the entire Millennium Kingdom. The coming or leading edge is Revelation 6 through 11. The Day of the Lord is Revelation 20, not the judgments on the leading edge found in the rest of the book.

2 Peter 3 is not describing the Day of the Lord. 2 Peter 3 is describing the coming before the Day of the Lord even starts. Peter gives us the length of the Day of the Lord, just like John does. That is two witnesses, not just a single chapter.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Day of the Lord is the entire Millennium Kingdom. The coming or leading edge is Revelation 6 through 11. The Day of the Lord is Revelation 20, not the judgments on the leading edge found in the rest of the book.

2 Peter 3 is not describing the Day of the Lord. 2 Peter 3 is describing the coming before the Day of the Lord even starts. Peter gives us the length of the Day of the Lord, just like John does. That is two witnesses, not just a single chapter.

As far as I can tell, the Day of the Lord in the context of eschatology means that day in which Christ's Kingdom is eternally established. So obviously, that "Day" will continue on forever. I don't see how 2 Pet 3 can *not* be the Day of the Lord?

 

[WPM]

I'm not at all obsessed with ethnic Israel. The Bible and the Prophets were chalk full of information about Israel and their Hope.

I'm fully aware of Israel's situation at the time Jesus came. They were in a terrible sinful state, one that was not always the case. It just happened that Messiah came to them at their lowest spiritual state, probably so that he could demonstrate the greatest depth of his love.

It was a redemptive love, one that doesn't cast off the hope of an entire nation because of the compromised position they found themselves in. God is still able to restore them, by separating the sheep and the goats, and then establishing the nation on a proper foundation.

Unlike many Premills, who place Israel virtually over the entire Millennial world, I don't do this. Israel is focused upon because God made her the model of His grace.

And so, now that God has graciously shown pagan nations the means of becoming Christian nations, now God will show grace to pagan Israel to demonstrate the depths of His grace. And Christian nations that have been backsliding back into paganism can also be restored at Christ's Coming by that same grace.

But I would agree with you on at least two things here. One, Israel will not be exalted over the nations. That is indeed an unhealthy obsession with Israel. The OT Prophets only promised that Israel will be exalted over her "abusive" international enemies. Christians are promised the very same thing.

And two, I agree that we should not focus only on the kind of religion that the Jews exhibited at Christ's 1st Coming. Israel and many Hebrews were not always that way.

We should not focus on the Law, as a now-outmoded instrument, nor on the importance of ethnicity in matters of a covenant relationship with God. Covenant relationship now is governed not by ethnic separation but rather by loyalty to Christ and by separation from paganism. And soo, I agree. Our focus should be on Christ in matters of covenant relationship.

I don't believe Israel always had this "carnal" focus on religion, however. There have been many faithful Hebrews under the Law before they fell into the condition they had at the time of Christ's 1st Coming. Israel's history has been a checkered past, and we should not just characterize them all and their whole history as it was in the time of Christ's earthly ministry!

All nations are destined to suffer decline following a covenant relationship with God,, including both Israel under the Law or Christian nations under the Law of Christ. Sin simply "leavens the whole lump" in all nations, and the best of nations suffer decline, just as Israel did.

But that should not, I think, cause us to give up hope that God can fix these things, restoring not just individuals but entire national systems and societies. God can reformulate Christian nations in the future, if He has done so in the past. But the Prophets predicted a time would come when God would restore such fallen nations permanently. I think it will take a Millennium to do this. You do not.

That period was introduced 2000 years ago. The Gospel has went out to the nations. There will not be a rerun of this age as you promote.

 

[Davy]

What you fail to acknowledge is how Joel's prophesy includes both the Day of the Lord that came with power at Pentecost, as well as the "great and the terrible day of the Lord" that will come on the last day of the Lord when the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more.

No, the Joel 2 prophecy is pointing to events that happen BEFORE the "day of the Lord".

Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

Can you not understand English? Is English not your main language? I can understand how you could make that error of reading the above verse if English is not your main language. Otherwise if it is, then I have assume you are DENYING that "before" on purpose. So why would you do that?

 

[rwb]

No, the Joel 2 prophecy is pointing to events that happen BEFORE the "day of the Lord".

Joel 2:31
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
KJV

Can you not understand English? Is English not your main language? I can understand how you could make that error of reading the above verse if English is not your main language. Otherwise if it is, then I have assume you are DENYING that "before" on purpose. So why would you do that?

You're confusing the Day of the Lord that has already come when Christ came to earth a man with the last "great and terrible day of the Lord come". On that last Day of the Lord, the second coming of Christ, will be preceded by signs in heaven. After these signs from heaven THEN will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and all the earth shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven, just as Joel foretells.

Matthew 24:29-31 (KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Or perhaps it is YOU who has trouble with the English language??? Perhaps it is YOU who is denying that Christ has already come in His Day, and since He has already come, there will be a final or last Day of the Lord when He shall return the second time??? Tell us, are you doing this purposely, with intent to deceive??? I would hope not!

 

[Davy]

Likewise, I have told you many times that you do not understand, and it is still obvious that you do not.

But I do understand God's Word, because one must have ears to 'hear' firstly. And secondly one must be able to stick to the subject. The subject of this thread is about the 2 Peter 3:10 event of man's works burned off this earth on the "day of the Lord", which is the day of Jesus' future coming.

• At first Jesus said that his day had not yet come (when Mary asked Him to help with the wine at the wedding}. After which He did say His time had come prior to going to the cross. Day, time, hour...same word. Which Peter speaking in 2 Peter 3:10 knew, but he was speaking to those who were not yet secure in the faith, for he first warned them of false teachers coming into the church, that they should hear rather from the Spirit than from evil men who would come to say "My master is delaying his coming."

You're confused. Jesus often used the idea of His time not yet having come when pointing to His being delivered up to be crucified (Matthew 26:18). So you cannot just bring in the idea of any day or time and try to point that to His coming return, for that's just being silly with not even understanding the simplicity of The Bible in English.

• Now Jesus' coming was not to be what was "expected", but come "as a thief" and not when "expected."

Nor does that make sense because it does not even agree with the simplicity in English of the Rev.16:15 verse where Jesus said He comes "as a thief". You might as well call the English you speak something else, because you are even reading the English Scripture as English.

• Jesus said He was coming "soon" and foretold all of what would "shortly take place", but as yourself--most "expected" to see His coming as the world sees, and therefore denied that it had ever occurred, even speaking out of both sides of their mouth saying that Jesus had come into them, but also that He had not, and thus looked to the future believing rather that "My master delays his coming" just as He warned about, stating plainly that such a person was an "evil servant."

Jesus said He comes "as a thief", and the phrase Paul and Peter used about the "day of the Lord" coming "as a thief in the night" is the subject Jesus was pointing to, simply because in His Olivet discourse He used the idea of the thief breaking in to represent the 'day' of His FUTURE coming. So Apostles Paul and Peter were actually repeating that "as a thief" idea FROM LORD JESUS' teaching.

• But how could this be? Just as He explained, saying, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Meaning that His coming was not to be "in the flesh" as "expected", but rather as it should be--that is, in the glory and spirit of God whom is spirit; which is what was meant by Him returning "in like manner", meaning that just as the Spirit had lit upon Him and did not depart, that is what was seen when He departed--and thus, in like manner He would come in to those who answered His knock at the door, not in His flesh body that He had given over to the church to be His own body, but to enter into that body which He had given again by the Holy Spirit.

That reveals you are on a serious FALSE DOCTRINE OF MEN, what is called 'Full Preterism'. That false doctrine does NOT believe in a 'literal' return of Lord Jesus Christ back to this earth, when God's Word plainly and clearly says He will return in like manner how He ascended into Heaven. So it doesn't matter how much you TRY to eliminate Jesus' body, He STILL has the image of man, because that is GOD's Own Image per Genesis 1:26-27. So whether one believes He will return in a spirit body form, or a flesh form, no matter, because the Scriptures shows a LITERAL return back to this earth how He went into Heaven. And that is HOW we may expect His future return to happen. Anything else is a LIE from the devil.

I admonish you to repent to Christ Jesus of following such a false doctrine from men as Full Preterism. And the time of His future coming is very, very short today.

 

[Davy]

To be honest, I can't formulate an timeline from Isa 25 alone.

I can't either, which is not what I have showed. But nice try in your attempt to discredit how I revealed Isaiah 25 relates to what Paul quoted in 1 Cor.15 about death swallowed up in victory. I think you well understood what I showed, it's just that conflicting doctrines from men you have are preventing you from understanding it.

 

[Davy]

You're confusing the Day of the Lord that has already come when Christ came to earth a man with the last "great and terrible day of the Lord come".

That statement is absolutely crazy! The "day of the Lord" HAS NOT COME YET TODAY.

You show you don't really understand about the TWO advents (comings) of Lord Jesus Christ.

1st coming -- born of woman, meek as a lamb to be slain, died on the cross, The Father raising Him from the dead, having ascended to Heaven in a cloud (PAST HISTORY)
2nd coming -- return to this earth in a cloud, wielding a sword to subdue all His enemies, and rule all nations with "a rod of iron". (STILL FUTURE)

 

[Randy Kluth]

I can't either, which is not what I have showed. But nice try in your attempt to discredit how I revealed Isaiah 25 relates to what Paul quoted in 1 Cor.15 about death swallowed up in victory. I think you well understood what I showed, it's just that conflicting doctrines from men you have are preventing you from understanding it.

You think I spoke with malice? No, I was just commenting, brother. I can't claim to know more about Isa 25 than what I know thus far. I didn't at all say it had nothing to do with Paul's statements in 1 Cor 15--of course it does!

 

[Davy]

You think I spoke with malice? No, I was just commenting, brother. I can't claim to know more about Isa 25 than what I know thus far. I didn't at all say it had nothing to do with Paul's statements in 1 Cor 15--of course it does!

Are you saying you spoke that unintentionally then, which sounded like suggesting that I was formulating a timeline from Isaiah 25 alone?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Are you saying you spoke that unintentionally then, which sounded like suggesting that I was formulating a timeline from Isaiah 25 alone?

No, I just state my mind, and am quite honest about things that I am less sure of. I agree that the Isaiah passage is what Paul was referring to in 1 Cor 15. That much we agree on. My timeline, as I see it, on the defeat of Death is in 2 stages, 1st at the Cross and 2nd at the 2nd Coming. I think Isa 25 may have been speaking of both at the same time, since the 2nd is predicated on the 1st.

 

[Davy]

No, I just state my mind, and am quite honest about things that I am less sure of. I agree that the Isaiah passage is what Paul was referring to in 1 Cor 15. That much we agree on. My timeline, as I see it, on the defeat of Death is in 2 stages, 1st at the Cross and 2nd at the 2nd Coming. I think Isa 25 may have been speaking of both at the same time, since the 2nd is predicated on the 1st.

Does that mean you believe the doctrine of Amillennialism, that the wicked are destroyed on the day of Christ's future coming, i.e., the "day of the Lord"?


What I understand from God's Word is this...

1st death = death of our flesh body. This happens only in this present world.

2nd death = death of one's spirit with soul only, cast into the "lake of fire" after... Christ's future "thousand years" reign over all nations with His elect Church.

That 2nd death is not about death of one's flesh like you have pointed to. It is about death of one's spirit and soul. It is the same death that Satan and his angels go into, the death of their spirit & soul.

The "spiritual body" that Paul taught is our spirit part. We have it when God created us. Our soul is attached to our spirit body. Our spiritual body is simply the "image of the heavenly". If you are in Heaven, that is the type body you manifest with, a Heavenly image outward likeness. Our soul is our person, what makes us individuals. Even the wicked have a spirit body. It is our spirit body that is resurrected, not our flesh. Our soul is always attached to our spirit body. But our spirit with soul can... be separated from our flesh. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 teaches there is something called a "silver cord" that keeps our spirit (with soul) attached to our flesh body while alive on earth; and at flesh death that silver cord is separated, and then our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and our spirit (with soul) goes back to God (meaning to the Heavenly realm).