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Featured Matthew 7:13-14. Is This A Victory For Satan? So Many Are Going To Be Without God's Love FOREVER!

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by jshiii, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. jshiii

    jshiii Active Member

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    The Narrow and Wide Gates (NIV)

    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it (HELL). 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.(very few are going to Heaven)


    The above scripture is what I'm presently Meditating on.

    It makes me sad and want to go out to the West Side of Town (I would be shot or locked up) and shout "NOW IS THE TIME FOR REPENTANCE, JESUS LOVES YOU!"

    "THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN HAS COME NEAR!" MATT. 3:2

    If I was ever in control of the way I would leave this world, this would be the way. I would go out of this world Glorifying Jesus Christ! If it was his WILL FOR ME! IT MAY BE. How many of you could say this?
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  2. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Important verses to meditate on.
    Tell you the truth, I've always sympathized with Paul when he said it would be far better for him to go on and be with the Lord. Yet out of service to God and those he was sent to, he chose to stick around.

    If I could have gone home and been done with it, I would have decades ago : )
     
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  3. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    There is no victory for the Dark Side. While few may find that narrow gate, many will still be saved. Remember that the same day, after coming down from the mountain, Jesus also said:

    Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
     
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  4. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    Amen!
    100% agree...Satan gets NO victory , the Victor is already declared....and Jesus wins!
    People who see any victory for the devil have a very tiny God!!

    It’s all His Plan....He makes no mistakes. :)
     
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  5. Butterfly

    Butterfly Well-Known Member

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    Is this talking about heaven and hell - we always presume it is- but who was Jesus talking to?
    The crowds had gathered, but Jesus went up on the mountain side and SAT down - his disciples came to him , and He started to teach them. He wasn't talking to the crowds that had gathered, but only to his disciples, those who had already chosen to follow him.
    I realise that one gate leads to life and the other to destruction, but both words can mean many different things. If we make wrong choices as followers of the Lord then it can lead to all kinds of problems, and much can be destroyed as a result , but here Jesus is relaying to the disciples that doing the right thing is more difficult to do.
    I use to believe that Jesus was talking to everyone in the sermon on the mount, mainly because in films that depict this he is always standing proclaiming a message to everyone - but then I realised that ' he went up the mountain and sat down and his disciples came to him '
    That's my take on it anyway .........
    Rita
     
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  6. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    You forget, this is not a popularity contest. God chose before he created the universe All those he was going to save.
    Hell is a defeat for the devil, not a victory.
     
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  7. jshiii

    jshiii Active Member

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    An answer from Jeff. I support his answer.

    "The fact that anyone, at all, goes to heaven is a colossal defeat for Satan. He's doomed, and the idea that some people will escape his fate is a failure on his part. As to why relatively few people will be in heaven, the issue is simply that of our own free will. People who don't want God don't find God."
     
  8. DeiVindicem

    DeiVindicem Member

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    2 John 1:9
    Whosoever transgresseth,
    and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God.
    He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ,
    he hath both the Father
    and the Son.

    The doctrine of Christ is the only way the only truth and the only life
    that will save you from being in eternal damnation in the lake of fire.
     
  9. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    God's will isn't for anyone other than Christ. The whole world is created by Christ and for Christ to the glory of God the father. How or why you or I decide to leave this world isn't relevant. This is just what people do to take the focus from Christ, and place it on themselves.
     
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  10. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    I believe God has a will for all. People don't decide when they die. And people can do good and it be attributed to God for his glory and not their own.
     
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  11. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty of people who lay down their lives for others. They explicitly decide when they will die.

    Sure, but when they bring themselves into the equation, it's kind of obvious that their attributions to God are hollow. People can do good without letting anyone know what they're doing. There is no way God will not be glorified if they keep their part in it to themselves. This is quite obvious to anyone who has ever done anything for anyone else without letting them know their part in it. People will immediately praise God. There's literally no one else to thank.
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Your sentiments are appreciated, but none are lost "but the son of perdition."

    What you are responding to is an "image" (as it is written). But there was always only One begotten of God. The unfolding of the One makes for "many"; that is, many who are "in Christ", as well as many who are in Satan (since before the foundation of the world and the manifestation of this "image" of it).

    But don't be troubled. Our part is not to drag people into the light, but merely to be a light.
     
  13. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    When someone wants to die as a martyr for God it doesn't go as they expected. His calling is not so predictable.

    Unless you're just giving money, there is no way to remain anonymous, charity isn't just throwing money at people. Someone has to labor for the good of others in the open. So long as it is clear they are working as a Christian with nothing to gain for it in this world, their work glorifies God.
     
  14. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    How so? There's only one other option, which would be that they don't actually die. I can see how that might not be expected, but then that's beside the point.

    False. There are plenty of ways to help others anonymously. Dropping off food can be done anonymously. One can employ someone simply to allow the person the dignity of working for their daily bread without the other person ever knowing that their employer doesn't even need the work done in the first place. Perhaps someone needs a home for their family. You could ask them if they would be willing to house sit your home while you're away. This way you're asking them a favor without them ever knowing that you don't need a house sitter. The ways to engage in charity are only limited by one's own self interest. For everyone else, there is no limit.

    I never suggested it was.

    Not necessarily, and when one endeavors to help others anonymously, the means of accomplishing that will eventually become quite evident. How many times have we all pretended that the poor soul in front of us dropped a fifty? C,mon, this isn't rocket science. It's really that easy. When they balk and say that they didn't drop it, you simply say that you clearly saw it drop to the ground just now, and you're not going to take it because it isn't yours. Most people will simply comply out of a sense of civility. The fact that they may desperately need the money is also a factor.

    When your neighbor needs to purchase school clothes and supplies for their children, you can buy a chord of wood from them, or whatever else they have to offer, and then simply have it delivered to someone who needs it by telling them that you have a chord of wood you need to get rid of and perhaps they might be able to use it. The more you do this, the easier it gets.

    I recently discovered that one of my neighbors has no electricity, and therefore no running water either. She's collecting rain water to wash clothes, and bathe. I told her that I had a couple of 300 gallon storage tanks that were lightweight, and needed to get rid of them, and that I could probably rig them up to her house in case the power went out during a storm so she would have water to flush her toilets. She graciously agreed to my request to take them off my hands.

    Another neighbor was lamenting how their computer broke down, and they can't afford to fix it. I had a desk top that was just taking up space in my closet so I asked if they'd be interested in a desk top. Now they have done me the great favor of freeing up space in my closet. When people think they're doing you a favor, they will never know what's really going on.

    They don't have to identify as a Christian to glorify God. A true follower isn't seen by some pointless label, but by their fruit, and no one else needs to see it. There are plenty of people who gain nothing materially, but gain much in a better self image. In other words, they do it just because it makes them feel good.
     
  15. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    What is God's will for mankind?. I believe God wants to and is able to save
    everyone!!!

    1st Timothy 4:10-11 says,

    10 who is the savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
    11 these things command and teach.

    1st John 2:2 says,

    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also
    for the sins of the whole world.

    What is God's will?

    2nd Peter 3:9,

    9 not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to
    repentance.

    Thus, if any are lost, it is not because it is the will of God.

    Ps. 86:9 says,

    9 All nations whom thou has made shall come and worship before thee,
    and shall glorify thy name.

    One day God will show his exceeding riches of his grace to the rest of the world.
    Ephesians 2:7.


    What a God! What a Plan!

    Logabe
     
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  16. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    Selective vission seeing only what one wants to see is a mistake.
    Add in to your theory the verses that talk of judgement and of punishment for those who do not believe.
     
  17. shnarkle

    shnarkle Well-Known Member

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    I've struggled with this for decades, and I'm beginning to see that both perspectives are correct. It's just a matter of being able to see it from both sides.

    It doesn't make sense for the sin of Adam to condemn all of humanity, but the sacrifice of Christ only saves a few. It makes human sin more powerful and successful than God's salvation.

    However, when we begin to look at the fact that Satan is consumed from within, and reduced to ashes, or that Christ points out that self denial effectively makes him tranparent, one should begin to see what's really going on. It boils down to what is true, and what is false. What is real, and what is nothing but an illusion.

    If we identify with the illusion, we tend to separate the world into "us verses them". We think we can take ourselves along with our belongings into the kingdom. If we "decrease that he may increase" we begin to see that as soon as anyone takes that first step into "the Way", our steps disappear from the sand.

    The sciences verify this empirical fact. As I have pointed out numerous times on this forum. Our sense of self, or identity is formed quite early on, and is nothing more than an abstract construction of the mind. We, as separate individuals are nothing more than oxymorons.

    We indulge in this contradiction. It is a persistent delusion.
     
  18. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    I thought John did add the unbelievers in 1st John 2:2. John said, not only will we as
    Christians enjoy the covering of our sins, but one day the whole world will enjoy it also.

    Isaiah gave a second witness to John's statement by saying in Isaiah 45:23,

    23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
    righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee
    shall bow, every tongue shall swear.


    Paul confirmed what Isaiah said in Philippians 2:10-11,

    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in
    heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
    11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.

    Now God doesn't swear much, but when he does there is no doubt that it is going to come
    to pass. I guarantee God will do it by himself without any help from man. Just as Paul was
    going to kill a bunch of Christians in Damascus, Jesus spoke and he immediately changed
    his mind.

    He will do this to his enemies also, because he loves them. We need to practice what Jesus
    done by loving our enemies enough to tell them the truth about Jesus. That he is a loving
    God that will not leave them in the bondage of sin. Romans 8:21 says,

    For the creation itself shall also be delivered from the bondage of
    corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    What a God! What a Plan!

    Logabe
     
  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach,
    because we trust in the living God,
    Who is the Saviour of all men,
    specially of those that believe.'

    (1Timothy 4:10)

    Hello @shnarkle,

    It is a long time since we had opportunity to talk on a thread. Yet I fear this is way over my head. o_O

    'Who will have all men to be saved,
    and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
    For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.'

    1 Timothy 2:4

    'Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.'
    (1 Timothy 2:6)

    * God provided the means of salvation by the hands of Noah, before His judgement fell in the form of a flood: and Noah that preacher of righteousness preached to the people during that period, but it was only he and his family who were saved from among the population at that time.(Genesis 6-8; Ezekiel 14:14-20; Hebrews 11:7; 1 Peter 3:20; 2 Peter 2:5).

    * God has provided the means of salvation today, by the sacrificial offering of Christ Jesus, His only begotten Son: and the Word of Salvation has, and is being preached; it is open to all men to receive it, but only those who believe will do so.

    'For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,
    it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.'

    (1 Corinthians 1:21)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  20. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Very true about the reproach of the Gospel...
     
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