Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) is NOT Almighty YHWH

[101G]

Yes. That means he came in his Father's authority.
So, explain to me the process that takes place based on John 14:16 and 26. Do we ask Yeshua for the gift of the Holy Spirit and then He prays to the Father to give it to us and then the Son sends himself into us? Or does it play out some other way?

smile, who sent the Holy Spirit... the Father? listen, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


so, who sent the comforter? my god if you don't see it by now.

 

[gadar perets]

smile, who sent the Holy Spirit... the Father? listen, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


so, who sent the comforter? my god if you don't see it by now.

The Father and the Son both send the Comforter.

 

[gadar perets]

Sorry, I did not see the rest of your post#135 since you formatted it incorrectly

John 17:11, 22. The oneness between the Father and the Son is the same exact oneness that believers are to have with each other; not a oneness of being, person, or deity, but of purpose.
Jesus skipped 7 chapters to tell you exactly what He meant when He said John 10:30...I and my father are one?

And the the Jews wanted to Kill Jesus (John 10:33) for teaching Jesus had the same purpose....as God....to bring men to belief in God?

Uh No. All Prophets teach were teaching Gods Message for men to come to belief in God.

Immediately after Jesus said "he and his father are one"....John 10:30

The Jews wanted to Kill Him........FOR....
Making HIMSELF GOD John 10:33

I would say the Jews in Jesus' Presence would better know, better than you, THEY UNDERSTOOD Jesus MEANT.

The Jews did not know what he meant which is why Yeshua had to correct them in verses 32-36, especially verse 36. The Jews thought he was making himself out to be God, but he said he was making himself out to be the Son of God. The Jews were constantly misunderstanding him throughout the gospels. Since Christians side with the Jews understanding, Christians are constantly misunderstanding Yeshua as well.

Is.9:6 as "Father of eternity," the KJV reversed the sequence making the true meaning harder to discern. Several newer versions correct this mistake such as The Emphasized Bible, The Bible in Basic English, The New American Bible, The Holy Bible; A Translation From the Latin Vulgate in the Light of the Hebrew and Greek Originals, and The New English Bible, just to name a few. Yeshua is the Father of Eternity because eternal life comes to us through him. And so it is written in Heb.5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the author (or father) of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
Prophecy was foretold, that men who KNOW the Prophecy would RECOGNIZE the FULFILLMENT of Gods Promise to Walk among men.

You don't appear to RECOGNIZE the FULFILLMENT....even when Jesus said...
The OT was About Him.

I don't see you refuting my understanding of Isaiah 9:6. Is that because you know I am correct as far as how the Hebrew should be translated? Also, Yeshua did not say the OT was "About Him". He said there were things written about him in the Law of Moses, the Pophets, and the Psalms. That does not mean the entire OT is about Yeshua, but only those things pertaining to him.

You agreed....Jesus is the "true light'...so since you do not believe the Father and Son are ONE GOD....what "LIGHT" do you think the "FATHER" is?
1 John 1:5..........GOD IS LIGHT)

Yes, God (Father YHWH) is light. Yeshua is also light. Torah is also light. Believers are also lights. Are believers God because they are lights? Try thinking about these arguments you put forth before you post them.

 

[Taken]

Did you mean Ex 3:2 and 3:4? If so, in verse 2 of chapter 3, we see it is actually “the angel of YHWH” that appears in the burning bush and talks to Moses. This is confirmed again in Acts 7:35; “This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.” As YHWH’s agent or chosen representative, the angel had full authority to command Moses and to use YHWH’s name.

It is a matter of UNDERSTANDING scripture according to Gods Understanding.

In short...God creates and makes.
God is the Supreme TEACHER of His creations.

God created "angels" and gave them the POWER to "appear" as men.

God did not "GIVE" "all" of His POWER TO angels.

God Himself has the "POWER" to "appear" "AS" an Angel.....which we DISCOVER...IS called by the TITLE....
"THEE Angel OF the Lord"...
"THEE" Angel OF the Lord, IS God appearing "AS" an Angel.
"THIS" Angel "HAS" the SAME "Power and Authority" OF God, Because IT IS GOD.

OT men had the "understanding"....for a man TO HAVE "SEEN" thee ANGEL OF THE LORD...
THEY were "SEEING' God in the Likeness OF an angel.

The SAME applies to men, that God CAN Appear in the "Likeness" of a man.

And When "earthy men" SAW, the Lord God, appearing IN the "LIKENESS" of a man, they knew they HAD SEEN God, in a mans Likeness.

When Men "first" saw JESUS, they SAW a man.
When Men "came to KNOW Jesus", they KNEW by "SIGHT" they were SEEING God...
(Thee Christ).
And when Hearing Jesus Speak, they KNEW, they were Hearing the VOICE of the Word Of God, (Jesus).

You were supposed to have learned the mystery revealed OF God, OF the Father, OF the Christ...
they ARE ONE; Lord God Almighty.

Col 2:2

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

The Father and the Son both send the Comforter.

GINOLJC, to all

so both sent the Holy Ghost, .... my, my, my. listen up gadar perets you still don't understand do you. the Lord Jesus don't lie. if he said that he is sending the Holy Spirit and the Father said that he is sending the Holy Spirit, common sense tells us that the Father is the Lord Jesus.

it's redundant for the father to sent the Spirit, and then the Son too. no it's the same person.


Let me help you out. did not the Lord Jesus say that he would "MANIFEST" himself to his disciples? scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

gadar perets, when did the Lord Jesus "manifest" himself to his disciples, not, appear, but manifested himself? remember Judas asked him point blank, John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? the answer, on the day Pentecost. the Spirit MANIFESTED himself to the disciples by the speaking of other tongue.

see, the world didn't see him, which is yet to come, scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".

see, EVERY EYE will see him then, but not EVERY eye saw him on Pentecost, because he as Judas asked "manifested" himself.

and to prove this manifestation happen by the Spirit on Pentecost, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". see that, the manifestation, not the appearance, but the manifestation. and the manifestation on the day of Pentecost was this manifestation, 1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"

see, the Lord Jesus "manifested" himself in the gifts given at Pentecost. Jesus is the Holy Spirit MANIFESTED in the gifts.

now to prove my point further that our Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:".

here the word "advocate" in the Greek is,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

see gadar perets you can't get around the scriptures, the Lord Jesus is COMFORTER in Spirit.

supportive scripture from OT, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you".

who saved us? God, for there is only one God.

but next time I'll help you out in the Spirit. study this scripture closely, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

now, both word Spirit is capitalized, so, is there two Spirits? ........ (smiles), or ONE Spirit.

after this then we will get to a couple of verse down, and clearly understand who raised up our Lord's Body from the dead". until next time.

PCY

 

[Taken]

Sorry, I did not see the rest of your post#135 since you formatted it incorrectly

Funny! You have the express authority on how Another must "FORMAT"? Lol

The Jews did not know what he meant which is why Yeshua had to correct them in verses 32-36, especially verse 36. The Jews thought he was making himself out to be God, but he said he was making himself out to be the Son of God.

Seriously? I Jews fully UNDERSTOOD....GOD IS WITHOUT DESCENT!! God IS WITHOUT A BEGINNING! God CAN NOT REPRODUCE Something "WITHOUT" a "beginning"!

Jesus calling Himself, "THEE SON OF GOD", was EXPRESSLY calling Himself God.

Jesus was revealed "COMING FORTH" out from God.
For the sake of "a mans understanding", Jesus was called "BORN OF GOD"....because man Had already been introduced to BORN meaning Something ALIVE coming forth out from something ALIVE.

God calls Jesus "begotten".... signifying, Jesus IS "of" Gods Seed....
Later we are revealed, JESUS is the Christ, and CHRIST "IS" Gods Seed.

Jesus "IS" the name of Gods Word.
Gods OWN Word comes forth out from God, and SPEAKS....And SPOKE things INTO Being.

Jesus "IS" revealed "IS" the CHRIST.
The Christ "IS" revealed..."IS" the Power of God.
The Christ "IS" revealed..."IS" the Wisdom of God.
The Christ "IS" revealed ..."IS" the Seed of God.

Nothing whatsoever was created and made BY GOD, without HIS Word....Jesus....without HIS Power....Christ.

The Jews were constantly misunderstanding him throughout the gospels.

Does calling Jesus, the Son of God....MAKE Him LESS than God Himself? No.

Jesus appeared to MEN..."IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN"....

Do men HAVE the SUPREME POWER OF GOD?
No, they do not.
Nor did Jesus "FIRST" appear to MANKIND'WITH" ALL of His Supreme Power.

It was AS He became a young boy and then began preaching that His Power begins being reveal.....ALSO revealing HIS IS THE CHRIST....God IN THE FLESH.

God IS everywhere.
Revealing God IS IN Heaven....AND God was ON EARTH in the Likeness as a man...was DEALT WITH According to Gods Pleasure....

God Himself Declared.....
God IN Heaven would be called the FATHER...
And
God ON Earth would be called the SON.
Heb 1:5

Do you have issue with what God decides to call Himself?

Since Christians side with the Jews understanding, Christians are constantly misunderstanding Yeshua as well.

The Jews Understood....God DOES NOT REPRODUCE little baby Gods.... I agree.
God can NOT RE-produce something that is without beginning.

I don't see you refuting my understanding of Isaiah 9:6.

Is that because you know I am correct as far as how the Hebrew should be translated?

What is to refute? You claim what you understand according to LANGUAGE translation, makes you Correct, and others wrong.

I disagree. I believe what is Correct is According to the "TEACHER", which is WHOM I seek and listen to.

Also, Yeshua did not say the OT was "About Him". He said there were things written about him in the Law of Moses, the Pophets, and the Psalms. That does not mean the entire OT is about Yeshua, but only those things pertaining to him.

Roll eyes!!
NOTHING is BEFORE Christ the Lord Jesus!

Yes, God (Father YHWH) is light. Yeshua is also light.

Not "ALSO"....they are THEE "SAME LIGHT".

Torah is also light. Believers are also lights.

I don't believe a Book that IS enlightening...IS GOD.
I don't believe men who have Gods reflection of HIS LIGHT....ARE GOD.

Are believers God because they are lights?

Irrelevant. You apparently do not understand, The Father and Son ARE ONE God, ONE Same LIGHT.....and
"THINGS" have NO LIGHT OF THEIR OWN, but only receive the REFLECTION of Gods LIGHT.

Try thinking about these arguments you put forth before you post them.

Nothing to Argue with you about.
You simply saying you are correct and another wrong is not an argument....it's a disagreement.
You not knowing how or why "something" other than God has light, is on you, not me.

Gods LIGHT IS His Glory, which He "gives" to no one......He who possesses Gods Glory IS God....

John 17:5

God Bless,
Taken

 

[gadar perets]

It is a matter of UNDERSTANDING scripture according to Gods Understanding.

In short...God creates and makes.
God is the Supreme TEACHER of His creations.

God created "angels" and gave them the POWER to "appear" as men.

God did not "GIVE" "all" of His POWER TO angels.

God Himself has the "POWER" to "appear" "AS" an Angel.....which we DISCOVER...IS called by the TITLE....
"THEE Angel OF the Lord"...
"THEE" Angel OF the Lord, IS God appearing "AS" an Angel.
"THIS" Angel "HAS" the SAME "Power and Authority" OF God, Because IT IS GOD.

OT men had the "understanding"....for a man TO HAVE "SEEN" thee ANGEL OF THE LORD...
THEY were "SEEING' God in the Likeness OF an angel.

The SAME applies to men, that God CAN Appear in the "Likeness" of a man.

And When "earthy men" SAW, the Lord God, appearing IN the "LIKENESS" of a man, they knew they HAD SEEN God, in a mans Likeness.

When Men "first" saw JESUS, they SAW a man.
When Men "came to KNOW Jesus", they KNEW by "SIGHT" they were SEEING God...
(Thee Christ).
And when Hearing Jesus Speak, they KNEW, they were Hearing the VOICE of the Word Of God, (Jesus).

You were supposed to have learned the mystery revealed OF God, OF the Father, OF the Christ...
they ARE ONE; Lord God Almighty.

Col 2:2

God Bless,
Taken

I understand perfectly well. I understand your post is full of wishful thinking. God {Father YHWH} never appeared as an angel or a man.
No man has ever seen the Father (God). When they looked at Yeshua or the Angel of YHWH, they were NOT looking at the Father (the only true God) (John 17:3).

 

[gadar perets]

GINOLJC, to all

so both sent the Holy Ghost, .... my, my, my. listen up gadar perets you still don't understand do you. the Lord Jesus don't lie. if he said that he is sending the Holy Spirit and the Father said that he is sending the Holy Spirit, common sense tells us that the Father is the Lord Jesus.

it's redundant for the father to sent the Spirit, and then the Son too. no it's the same person.

So, in other words, you are NOT a trinitarian, but a oneness proponent? So you believe the Father begot Himself and the Son is his own Father!
So if the Father is really the Son, then the Son's God is himself. Who is the Son turning the Kingdom over to in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28? Who will the Son be subject to at that time? Himself? Your doctrine is false!

Let me help you out. did not the Lord Jesus say that he would "MANIFEST" himself to his disciples? scripture, John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

gadar perets, when did the Lord Jesus "manifest" himself to his disciples, not, appear, but manifested himself? remember Judas asked him point blank, John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? the answer, on the day Pentecost. the Spirit MANIFESTED himself to the disciples by the speaking of other tongue.

I already answered this. Go back and find it.

see, the world didn't see him, which is yet to come, scripture, Revelation 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".

see, EVERY EYE will see him then, but not EVERY eye saw him on Pentecost, because he as Judas asked "manifested" himself.

and to prove this manifestation happen by the Spirit on Pentecost, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". see that, the manifestation, not the appearance, but the manifestation. and the manifestation on the day of Pentecost was this manifestation, 1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:"

see, the Lord Jesus "manifested" himself in the gifts given at Pentecost. Jesus is the Holy Spirit MANIFESTED in the gifts.

What do you mean, "not the appearance"? That is what the Greek word means, "exhibit; exhibition". It is from the Greek word "phaneroo" meaning, "to render apparent."

now to prove my point further that our Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit, scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:".

here the word "advocate" in the Greek is,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

see gadar perets you can't get around the scriptures, the Lord Jesus is COMFORTER in Spirit.

John 14:16 And I (Yeshua) will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; ​

Since Yeshua is speaking and he is referring to "another Comforter", that means that he is also a comforter, but since he was departing, he would send another (a different) Comforter. There are at least two parakletos.

supportive scripture from OT, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you".

who saved us? God, for there is only one God.

YHWH, who is the ULTIMATE SAVIOR OF THE UNIVERSE, sent His Son to save us. We have two Saviors, but there are other lesser saviors than YHWH and Yeshua. I'll give you a clue; Gideon was one of them.

but next time I'll help you out in the Spirit. study this scripture closely, Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

now, both word Spirit is capitalized, so, is there two Spirits? ........ (smiles), or ONE Spirit.

after this then we will get to a couple of verse down, and clearly understand who raised up our Lord's Body from the dead". until next time.

PCY

John 14:23 Yeshua answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
​

A believer has both the Father and the Son living within them.

 

[gadar perets]

Funny! You have the express authority on how Another must "FORMAT"? Lol

It makes it a whole lot easier to read a post when my quotes are separated from yours, but your post has all your words as though I said them. Get with the program bro and stop ridiculing me for your mistakes.

Seriously? I Jews fully UNDERSTOOD....GOD IS WITHOUT DESCENT!! God IS WITHOUT A BEGINNING! God CAN NOT REPRODUCE Something "WITHOUT" a "beginning"!

Jesus calling Himself, "THEE SON OF GOD", was EXPRESSLY calling Himself God.

I guess "Jesus" didn't know that since he corrected their misunderstanding about what he meant.

Does calling Jesus, the Son of God....MAKE Him LESS than God Himself? No.

Yes.

I don't believe a Book that IS enlightening...IS GOD.

I was not referring to a "Book", but to the entirety of YHWH's teachings including His holy Law.

 

[Taken]

I understand perfectly well. I understand your post is full of wishful thinking. God {Father YHWH} never appeared as an angel or a man.
No man has ever seen the Father (God). When they looked at Yeshua or the Angel of YHWH, they were NOT looking at the Father (the only true God) (John 17:3).

Your understanding puts you in conflict with Scripture.

Gen 16:10
And the angel of the LORD said unto her
I WILL multiply thy seed exceedingly...

Gen 10:13
And she called the name of the LORD,
THAT SPOKE TO HER..

Gen 22:15
And the angel of the LORD called out unto Abraham...

Gen 22:16
And said, BY MYSELF have I sworn SAITH THE LORD....

Gen 22:17
I WILL bless thee...I WILL multiply thy seed


God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I guess "Jesus" didn't know that since he corrected their misunderstanding about what he meant.

What CORRECTION?...I don't see Jesus saying;
"you got it all wrong fellas, I'M NOT GOD"...

But rather that is YOUR teaching.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[gadar perets]

Your understanding puts you in conflict with Scripture.

Gen 16:10
And the angel of the LORD said unto her
I WILL multiply thy seed exceedingly...

Gen 10:13
And she called the name of the LORD,
THAT SPOKE TO HER..

Gen 22:15
And the angel of the LORD called out unto Abraham...

Gen 22:16
And said, BY MYSELF have I sworn SAITH THE LORD....

Gen 22:17
I WILL bless thee...I WILL multiply thy seed


God Bless,
Taken

If we try to understand this from a Western mind set, from our cultural perspective, it is difficult to understand. Not so from Middle Eastern thought. This is what is known as the “law of agency”. “The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum “A person’s agent is regarded as the person himself” (Ned.72b; Kidd.41b).” The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion, Adama Books, New York, NY, 1986, pg.15. The angels that spoke the law were YHWH’s agents or representatives. As such, they had full authority to not only speak in His name, but to seemingly appropriate His name as in Exodus 20:2; “I am YHWH thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” They were speaking exactly what YHWH wanted them to say.

Consider Exodus 23:20-23 – “Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.” The “angel” (Heb. malak – messenger) would actually speak to Israel, but YHWH says, “all that I speak.” YHWH would command the angel what to say and he would say it.

The same is true of our Savior Yeshua. He said in John 12:49,50; “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”

Aside from the references stating that no man has seen or heard the Father (YHWH), we have two other examples proving this to be true. In 2 Samuel 24:16, YHWH speaks to the angel of YHWH saying, “It is enough: stay now thine hand.” Then, in Zechariah 1:12, the angel of YHWH speaks to YHWH saying, “O YHWH of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?” These two references show the angel of YHWH to be a separate being from YHWH.

 

[gadar perets]

What CORRECTION?...I don't see Jesus saying;
"you got it all wrong fellas, I'M NOT GOD"...

But rather that is YOUR teaching.

God Bless,
Taken

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Yeshua answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (the misunderstanding and false accusation)
Joh 10:34 Yeshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? (Yeshua corrects them on two counts. First, he shows them that men can be called "elohim" (gods) in Scripture. He continues
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (Here, he corrects them gain by saying he said he was "the Son of God". He did not say, "I am God". There is absolutely no reference to him even implying he was God in John 10. That belief comes from the ignorant Jews who he was dealing with. Yeshua taught the oneness he has with the Father is not a oneness of being God, but a oneness of purpose. It is the same exact oneness that believers are to have with each other (John 17:11,22).​

 

[Taken]

If we try to understand this from a Western mind set, from our cultural perspective, it is difficult to understand. Not so from Middle Eastern thought. This is what is known as the “law of agency”.

I mention Carnal Understanding....and you appeared offended.....and now you want to discuss the Carnal Understanding BETWEEN a Western and Eastern Cultures...

Scripture is clear...
What PERSONALLY comes forth out from God...
..................IS GOD HIMSELF........................

Scripture is clear....
Men speaking Gods Word,Men writing Gods Word
IS Gods DESIGN for HIS WORD to be spread among men.

Scripture is clear....
God approves of men speaking "HIS WORD".

Scripture is clear....
God ALONE gives an INDIVIDUAL, "HIS UNDERSTANDING", "OF", "HIS WORD".

Scripture is clear....
God MANIFESTED HIS OWN WORD in the LIKENESS of man-KIND, TO SPEAK and REVEAL KNOWLEDGE that HAD been KEPT SECRET.

“The main point of the Jewish law of agency is expressed in the dictum “A person’s agent is regarded as the person himself” (Ned.72b; Kidd.41b).” The Encyclopedia of the Jewish Religion, Adama Books, New York, NY, 1986, pg.15. The angels that spoke the law were YHWH’s agents or representatives. As such, they had full authority to not only speak in His name, but to seemingly appropriate His name as in

Exodus 20:2; “I am YHWH thy Elohim, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” They were speaking exactly what YHWH wanted them to say.

Consider Exodus 23:20-23 – “Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him. But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries. For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.” The “angel” (Heb. malak – messenger) would actually speak to Israel, but YHWH says, “all that I speak.” YHWH would command the angel what to say and he would say it.

The same is true of our Savior Yeshua. He said in John 12:49,50; “For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”

Aside from the references stating that no man has seen or heard the Father (YHWH), we have two other examples proving this to be true. In 2 Samuel 24:16, YHWH speaks to the angel of YHWH saying, “It is enough: stay now thine hand.” Then, in Zechariah 1:12, the angel of YHWH speaks to YHWH saying, “O YHWH of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?” These two references show the angel of YHWH to be a separate being from YHWH.

You didn't NOTICE, the difference between Jesus speaking ON BEHALF OF GOD in Heaven.....and Jesus REVEALING HE IS THE CHRIST, who IS God, SPEAKING on behalf of HIMSELF.

Eph 1:9
Having made KNOWN to us the MYSTERY of his will ACCORDING to his good pleasure which he hath PURPOSED IN HIMSELF.

John 16:15
ALL THINGS THAT The father hath ARE MINE!!

God Bless,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

So, in other words, you make up your own definition and say you received it through your great spiritual discernment. How convenient.

I have made up nothing, but have addressed you according to the word and the spirit of God, and you show contempt for both. Your prejudice is obvious, and this is why we are at odds. Knowing, therefore, that light has no communion with darkness, I turn you over to Satan.

 

[Taken]

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Yeshua answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (the misunderstanding and false accusation)​

The Jews said, Jesus was making Himself God.

Joh 10:34 Yeshua answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said,

"I" (Jesus) "SAID".....

So JESUS GAVE THEM THEIR LAWS?

Ye are gods? (Yeshua corrects them on two counts. First, he shows them that men can be called "elohim" (gods) in Scripture.

Hummm.... Didn't GOD GIVE Men HIS LAWS?

And NOW you quote JESUS saying HE gave them their LAWS....

So what you give as A CORRECTION, more so looks like a VALIDATION!

He continues

Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

What is the big deal about Jesus SAYING IN THEIR LAW, men are called gods?

Not particularly a big secret, MEN have and do call themselves gods.

Not particularly a big secret, NO Terrestrial Man, CAME FORTH OUT OF GOD, thus being called thee ONLY begotten OF God.

I have even Seen Terrestrial men, with their name spelled JESUS. Not in the least do I confuse them WITH Thee Lord Jesus, no more than I confuse Thee Lord God Almighty being a created man, because men call themselves a god.

God Himself said, to have NO "OTHER" gods BEFORE HIM. So more than ONE god, is not particularly news.

God Bless,
Taken​

 

[Taken]

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? (Here, he corrects them gain by saying he said he was "the Son of God". He did not say, "I am God". ​

He SAID, "I AM THE SON OF GOD"..

What exactly does that mean TO YOU?

HOW DID the ETERNAL everlasting WITHOUT beginning, GOD, "REPRODUCE", something that has BOTH a "BEGINNING" and WITHOUT a "BEGINNING"?

Please explain HOW GOD HAD A BABY ...

God Bless,
Taken​

 

[Taken]

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

There is absolutely no reference to him even implying he was God in John 10. That belief comes from the ignorant Jews who he was dealing with ​

Ignorant Jews? Uh....

Their KNOWLEDGE came from their LAWS, which you just presented scripture.....
Their Laws came from God....via Jesus Speaking and telling them their Laws.

While the Jews SAW JESUS AS VIOLATING "THEIR" LAWS"....He was ACTUALLY FULFILLING "THEIR LAWS". That was their IGNORANCE.... NOT that they DID NOT KNOW THEIR OWN LAWS.

Several times the Jews ACCUSED Jesus of Blasphemy....
And so WELL Jesus DID VIOLATE their LAWS!

John 5:18
....the Jews sought THE MORE to kill him because he not only had broke the sabbath, but SAID also...
THAT GOD WAS HIS "FATHER"
MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH God.

John 19:7
The Jews answered him, WE have a LAW, and BY OUR LAW he ought to die,
BECAUSE he made himself the
SON of God.

I guess you are unaware, God CAN NOT REPRODUCE.

I guess you are unaware, of the Jews, you call ignorant WERE fully AWARE, God CAN NOT REPRODUCE, and for one to CALL themselves the SON of God, IS MAKING THEMSELF EQUAL TO GOD.

I guess you are unaware, THEE only begotten OF GOD, IS SIMPLY GODS Word, coming forth OUT from God, and IS God being manifested IN THE FLESH LIKENESS as a Terrestrial man.

Terrestrial men, DO NOT COME Forth OUT from God.....ONLY WHAT "IS" God Himself comes FORTH OUT from God.

Yeshua taught the oneness he has with the Father is not a oneness of being God,

No He NEVER said that.
The Oneness of the Father and Son, IS they ARE the SAME ONE Spirit.

but a oneness of purpose.

Of course the Father and Son have the same ONE purpose.

Doesn't your body, soul, spirit, word have the SAME ONE purpose?

It is the same exact oneness that believers are to have with each other (John 17:11,22).

​

Uh, the Father and Son ARE the Same ONE Spirit.
Born again Believers, HAVE THE SAME ONE "INDWELLING" of Gods ONE Spirit.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all

So, in other words, you are NOT a trinitarian, but a oneness proponent? So you believe the Father begot Himself and the Son is his own Father!
So if the Father is really the Son, then the Son's God is himself. Who is the Son turning the Kingdom over to in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28? Who will the Son be subject to at that time? Himself? Your doctrine is false!

I'll answer both, yea all of your question,

#1. no I'm not a trinitarian, nor a oneness proponent? Diversified Oneness is totally different...

#2. the Spirit Diversified himself as the "OFFSPRING" in flesh. what was begotten was flesh, the only begotten of the Spirit is the body he shared himself in.... , you know nothing of God and his workings.

now your #3. glad you asked. I'm going to give you the short and stright to the point, now follow.

"The subjection of Christ within God".
did you see that "within", listen, 1 Corinthians 15:27 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all"

the whole purpose of Christ being subject to God is that "God may be all in all" .... Right.

1 Corinthians 15:28 it says for "the Son to BE Subject" ... Right.

this is your first mistake, because you think that "be Subject" means UNDER, don't you... .

well wake up because it don't. did you see that verb "BE" before Subject, which it modifies the word subject.

Listen up,
SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. if you don't have the dictionary, here's a link to it. Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - subject
the Greek word here, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. so scroll down to SUBJECT, verb transitive (that will alert one quickly, the action of a person, and not the person themselves). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context. Look at Definition #2, To put under or within the power of. lets look the definition and understand this revelation. according to the definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (there is our revelation, “within” within the power of). lets back this up with our second understanding. G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments which means 1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience, which bring us to our second understanding. lets see this in scripture, Matthew 26:42 " He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done”. now here is the revelation. the Lord Jesus is God “OWN” arm. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. so being his “OWN” arm it is through, or “within” the agency of the Lord Jesus Christ that his, (GOD), OWN “will” is done, hence the obedience. this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself WHICH IS THE ROOT of subject. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo
(hoop-oh') states,
1.under
2.(with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
3.(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used "WITH" verbs. there is our conformation, the agency or means,“through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is use in VERB form, meaning with a verb as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”.

if you don't understand I suggest you go back and read it again.

Now, knowing this, that the verb "BE" used before Subject, modifies the meaning of Subject. when used with a verb "BE", Be subject means "WITHIN".

NOW, we see why our Lord is God "ALL IN ALL", as the last part of 1 Corinthians 15:28 says, "that God may be all in all".

now the conclusion: to be all in all, but at present he's the diversity or as the Greeks say he the G243 Allos of himself, or the numerical difference of himself, meaning two... (Father & Son)... .

Now to answer you Question, "Who is the Son turning the Kingdom over to in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28? Who will the Son be subject to at that time? Himself? "

I know you're feeling a little shame right now finding out "BE SUBJECT" means within... .

but don't because you just didn't know. but now you will. listen up,

since it's a numerically two, (Father and Son) remember the Father is spirit, (subject, abstract), and the Son Flesh & Bones, (object, concrete), so how do God be ALL in ALL. here's how. again I'll make it short and to the point. the term for a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE is called DIFFERENTIATION. question, "what is the OPPOSITE of DIFFERENTIATION?" since the process of “ANOTHER'”, is the sharing of Spirit, (the offspring, the Son). so, what is the opposite of DIFFERENTIATION, answer, "ASSIMILATION", hence the "WITHIN" God to be "ALL in ALL".

now do I have scripture to back this up? yes, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". NOW ONE MORE FOR SURETY. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Colossians 1:19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell".
HOW MUCH FULLNESS? ALL OF IT... yes the Lord Jesus is the Father in Flesh. and guess what, when he, the Father, the Spirit deliver up the Kingdom unto him, how many FACES will you see? let's check the record, Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads".

how many Faces will we see? HIS, meaning only ONE. ain't God Good... .

see how easy that was? if one just search the scriptures and research out these word out then one can KNOW God, not LEARN God. let the Holy Spirit Reveal himself to you.

see, a long, long, long time agao a JW asked me that same question, for he understood what I saying concering Diversified Oneness, that one question he had left, the one you asked. and it changed him.

hope you learn something. Peace in Christ Jesus.


PS
I see you didn't touch the,
1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:".

here the word "advocate" in the Greek is,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter

 

[gadar perets]

I have made up nothing, but have addressed you according to the word and the spirit of God, and you show contempt for both. Your prejudice is obvious, and this is why we are at odds. Knowing, therefore, that light has no communion with darkness, I turn you over to Satan.

Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.