Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) is NOT Almighty YHWH

[gadar perets]

And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us, and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father's only Son, full of grace and truth.

Correct, except for your capitalization of "Word". The "logos" (YHWH's spoken words, thoughts, plans) became flesh when He spoke His Son into existence.

 

[gadar perets]

Nothing was made or created without Gods Word coming forth out of His mouth.
Nothing was made or created without Gods Power coming forth out from Him.

Correct. YHWH (God) spoke words and things came into existence.

Jesus was BEFORE the WORLD WAS....
John 17:5

Yes, in YHWH's plan of salvation, but not in real life.

No man has SEEN God, Agree.
However men HAVE SEEN God IN a FORM, that God Himself has devised to COVER Himself as His IS....such as...
A burningbush
A Dove
A Cloud
An Angel
A man
And in the last days A man, God Himself said, to call His Son.

The being in the burning bush was an angel. The Dove was the Holy Spirit. An Angel? What are you referring to? A man? Verse please.
God can dwell IN a man, but He never was and never will be a man.

God IS ONE God.
John 10:30

That is not what John 10:30 says.

Lord Jesus
God Father
Almighty Christ

Lord God Almighty, thee First and thee Last for mankind to Know, as God Himself has revealed Himself bit by bit.

This is one twisted word game! Yeshua is NEVER called "Almighty" or "Almighty Christ" in Scripture.

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."

And the blind man in John 9 said, "I am". If trinitarian translators translated his words into English as "I AM", would you believe the blind man is the great I AM of Exodus 3:14? It is a proven fact that Yeshua is NOT the I AM (see post#23).

 

[gadar perets]

From Pastor Terry Hill.
Jesus knew exactly what His relationship was with God.


When He heard that the Jews had cast out from the temple the man whose sight He had earlier restored, He found him again and said to him


“Dost thou believe on the Son of God? John 9:35


The man answered Jesus by asking “Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? John 9:36


The Scriptures record


“And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.” John 9:37


Do we wish to argue with Jesus Himself? He very clearly said that He is the Son of God. This was no figurative claim. It was very real and it was literal. The blind man was told that the one that had healed him was the Son of God. Quite obviously this man who had been blind would only have understood this in a literal sense. In more ways than one, his eyes were now open.


There is another experience of Jesus where He claimed to be the divine Son of God. This was when He heard that His friend Lazarus was sick.


Jesus said to His disciples regarding that sickness


“This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.” John 11:4



Again Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God. He was clearly not using this title to simply denote the intimacy of relationship that He had with His Father.


Throughout His life on earth, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. This is why the Jews said He was a blasphemer.


Perhaps the best known time is when He said to Nicodemus


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:16-18



Challenged by Satan


Jesus obviously had no problems with His own identity (who He was) but it did concern Satan.


When he came to Jesus, tempting Him to doubt His true identity, he said,“If thou be the Son of God” (see Matthew 4:6).


It was on the point of Sonship that the devil challenged Jesus. Prove who you are he said, prove that you really are the Son of God. This was at the very beginning of the ministry of Jesus. Satan knew that Jesus regarded Himself as the Son of God.



Notice here that Satan said “If thou be the Son of God.



Satan was obviously challenging Jesus to display His powers of divinity. This, according to him, would have proved that He was the Son of God. He was in fact attempting to make Jesus doubt His Father’s testimony. This testimony was that He was the Son of God (Matthew 3:17).



Here can be seen the entire point of Satan’s challenge. He was urging Christ to prove His Sonship, meaning to prove His divinity. If we miss this point we miss everything about the temptation. Obviously the devil never meant these words to be metaphorical (representative of the loving relationship that Jesus had with the Father). This would not make any sense at all.



The testimony of demons



Satan’s fellow angels also knew the identity of Jesus. With their leader they too had heard of the testimony of God the Father (Matthew 3:17).



They said to Jesus



“What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?” Matthew 8:29



In His pre-existence, these demons had known Jesus as the divine Son of God. They were the fallen angels. Christ had once been their beloved commander, at least up until the time they had been deceived by Lucifer. Now they were encountering Him in His incarnate state.



The Scriptures also tell us



“And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.” Mark 3:11



This same type of unclean spirit said to Christ



“What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.” Mark 5:7



They also said of Jesus



“Thou art Christ the Son of God.” Luke 4:41



Even in His incarnation, these demons had no problems identifying Jesus. They realised His true identity. Just like all the others we have noted, they did not use this term “Son of God” in any figurative sense. Certainly they were not using this term simply as an expression of God’s love for the Son or the intimacy of relationship that the Father had with the Son. This would be a totally ridiculous conclusion to draw.



This in turn begs a question. If the demons know and confess that Christ is truly the Son of God, then why do not many Christians know and confess it today?

Who says he is not the Son of God?

 

[Philip James]

And the blind man in John 9 said, "I am". If trinitarian translators translated his words into English as "I AM", would you believe the blind man is the great I AM of Exodus 3:14? It is a proven fact that Yeshua is NOT the I AM (see post#23).

His hearers knew exactly what he was saying... They tried to stone Him for it.

If you reject the divinity of Christ, you may as well tear the Gospel of John out of your bible... His letters too..

 

[Philip James]

Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed

 

[Taken]

Correct. YHWH (God) spoke words and things came into existence.

Yes God Spoke.....and what came forth out from Him was HIS WORD. It is later God reveals to call His WORD, JESUS.

Yes, in YHWH's plan of salvation, but not in real life.

God does not operate on "man's REAL LIFE".
God IS LIFE, and nothing HAS Life, without receiving it FROM Him.

The being in the burning bush was an angel. The Dove was the Holy Spirit. An Angel? What are you referring to? A man? Verse please.
God can dwell IN a man, but He never was and never will be a man.

God IS NEVER A CREATED man.
God IS NEVER An Earthly man.

However God has Numerous Times appeared unto CREATED EARTHLY MEN, "AS" Numerous "THINGS".

An Angel, Men, A Man God said to call His Son.

That is not what John 10:30 says.

Jesus said He and His Father are ONE.
One What do you think Gods IS, but ONE God?

This is one twisted word game! Yeshua is NEVER called "Almighty" or "Almighty Christ" in Scripture.

I can not understand for you.
MIGHT IS POWER. Christ IS the POWER.
POWER IS effected VIA LIGHT.
Jesus IS the TRUE LIGHT.

John 1:9
...the true light...

Pss 50:1
...The Mighty God, EVEN the LORD...

Isa 9:6
...unto us a childe is born, unto us a son is given:
....the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father.

1 Cor 1:24
...Christ the Power of God, AND the Wisdom of God.


Trying to figure out scriptural understanding via the carnal mind, is a fail.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[gadar perets]

His hearers knew exactly what he was saying... They tried to stone Him for it.

The context of John 8 shows why they sought to stone Yeshua. Yeshua

1) accused the Pharisees of "judging after the flesh" (vs.15).
2) said they would die in their sins (vss.21,24).
3) implied they were in bondage (vss.32,33).
4) said they were servants of sin (vs.34).
5) said they were out to kill him (vss. 37,40).
6) implied they were spiritually deaf (vs.43,47).
7) said their father was the devil (vs.44).
8) said they were not of Elohim (vs.47).
9) accused them of dishonoring him (vs.49).
10) accused them of not knowing Yahweh (vs.55).
11) accused them of lying (vs.55).​

Aside from that, the Jews misunderstood Yeshua's words leading
them to believe;

1) that he accused them of being born of fornication (vs.41).
2) Yeshua had a devil (vs.52).
3) that he was exalting himself above Abraham (vs.53).
4) that he saw Abraham (vs.56).
​

Yeshua's words in verse 58 were the culmination of an encounter that was so offensive to the Jews that they couldn't restrain themselves anymore. They simply couldn't take it anymore so they sought to stone him, not because of two simple words, "ego eimi," but because he was making himself out to be greater than their beloved father Abraham.

If you reject the divinity of Christ, you may as well tear the Gospel of John out of your bible... His letters too..

No need to tear out John. All I need to do is make sure I do not add the thought of divinity that Christians read into the text.

 

[ScottA]

More spiritual sounding philosophy. Your problem is that you can't refute my use of Scripture so you present yourself as being so far above me spiritually. I use Scripture (the heavenly standard) and you use philosophy (the worldly standard).

If we cannot accept the lexical definition of "foreordained", then where do you get the correct definition from and what is the correct definition?

You are wrong...but I like it, because the answer to your question vindicates me of your accusations: The definition, (to quote the scripture), as with all scripture, "must be discerned spiritually" - i.e. not in word alone.

 

[gadar perets]

Thomas answered and said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Jesus said to him, "Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed

Thomas did not speak English. He most likely spoke those words in Hebrew or Aramaic and used "adoni" and "elohi" or something similar. Both words can refer to men, but the English word "God" cannot refer to men. The translators put their trinitarian bias into the text to provide "proof" of Yeshua's deity. I don't fall for deceptions like that.

 

[gadar perets]

You are wrong...but I like it, because the answer to your question vindicates me of your accusations: The definition, (to quote the scripture), as with all scripture, "must be discerned spiritually" - i.e. not in word alone.

So, in other words, you make up your own definition and say you received it through your great spiritual discernment. How convenient.

 

[Philip James]

Thomas did not speak English. He most likely spoke those words in Hebrew or Aramaic and used "adoni" and "elohi" or something similar. Both words can refer to men, but the English word "God" cannot refer to men. The translators put their trinitarian bias into the text to provide "proof" of Yeshua's deity. I don't fall for deceptions like that.

The only deception here is your own.. Ill leave you to it.

May the Lord, the God of Hosts, bless you and draw you to Him.

 

[gadar perets]

However God has Numerous Times appeared unto CREATED EARTHLY MEN, "AS" Numerous "THINGS".

An Angel, Men, A Man God said to call His Son.

Give me some verses.

Jesus said He and His Father are ONE.
One What do you think Gods IS, but ONE God?

Yeshua told us exactly what he meant in John 17:11, 22. The oneness between the Father and the Son is the same exact oneness that believers are to have with each other; not a oneness of being, person, or deity, but of purpose.

John 1:9
...the true light...

I agree.

Pss 50:1
...The Mighty God, EVEN the LORD...

The "LORD", in this verse, is YHWH (Yeshua's Father - Psalm 2:7).

Isa 9:6
...unto us a childe is born, unto us a son is given:
....the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father.

The Hebrew reads "el gibbor". The word "el" is used of men as well as the Almighty. Yeshua is a mighty el, but he is not "The Mighty El". The phrase can also be translated "mighty warrior".

"Everlasting Father" is a poor translation as well. There are at least 27 names in the Bible with the same Hebrew construction as in this verse. Each one means the "father of (something)." For example, Abishua means "father of plenty." Instead of translating the phrase in Is.9:6 as "Father of eternity," the KJV reversed the sequence making the true meaning harder to discern. Several newer versions correct this mistake such as The Emphasized Bible, The Bible in Basic English, The New American Bible, The Holy Bible; A Translation From the Latin Vulgate in the Light of the Hebrew and Greek Originals, and The New English Bible, just to name a few. Yeshua is the Father of Eternity because eternal life comes to us through him. And so it is written in Heb.5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the author (or father) of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

1 Cor 1:24
...Christ the Power of God, AND the Wisdom of God.

Trying to figure out scriptural understanding via the carnal mind, is a fail.

God Bless,
Taken

Now you are taking the same approach as others on this thread. Since you can't refute the Scriptures I present or my view, you accuse me of being carnally minded. Sad indeed.

 

[gadar perets]

The only deception here is your own.. Ill leave you to it.

May the Lord, the God of Hosts, bless you and draw you to Him.

Thanks for your prayer for me. I will leave you with this;

If Yeshua is God, and Yeshua has a God, then you have two Gods and are polytheistic just like all the other nations in this world. Also, since Yeshua died he certainly wasn't much of a God. My God (Yeshua's Father) has inherent immortality and cannot die.

 

[Taken]

Give me some verses.

Ex 2:2
Ex 2:4

Yeshua told us exactly what he meant in John 17:11, 22. The oneness between the Father and the Son is the same exact oneness that believers are to have with each other; not a oneness of being, person, or deity, but of purpose.

Jesus skipped 7 chapters to tell you exactly what He meant when He said John 10:30...I and my father are one?

And the the Jews wanted to Kill Jesus (John 10:33) for teaching Jesus had the same purpose....as God....to bring men to belief in God?

Uh No. All Prophets teach were teaching Gods Message for men to come to belief in God.

Immediately after Jesus said "he and his father are one"....John 10:30

The Jews wanted to Kill Him........FOR....
Making HIMSELF GOD John 10:33

I would say the Jews in Jesus' Presence would better know, better than you, THEY UNDERSTOOD Jesus MEANT.

The "LORD", in this verse, is YHWH (Yeshua's Father - Psalm 2:7).

You have the advantage of the NEW and OLD Testament.

You were suppose to learn the MYSTERY of God. His Glory, His Light, His Power, His Word, IS all part of HIS OWN MAKEUP, regardless of WHAT HE DECLARES each part of Him shall be called.

The Hebrew reads "el gibbor". The word "el" is used of men as well as the Almighty. Yeshua is a mighty el, but he is not "The Mighty El". The phrase can also be translated "mighty warrior".

"Everlasting Father" is a poor translation as well. There are at least 27 names in the Bible with the same Hebrew construction as in this verse. Each one means the "father of (something)." For example, Abishua means "father of plenty." Instead of translating the phrase in Is.9:6 as "Father of eternity," the KJV reversed the sequence making the true meaning harder to discern. Several newer versions correct this mistake such as The Emphasized Bible, The Bible in Basic English, The New American Bible, The Holy Bible; A Translation From the Latin Vulgate in the Light of the Hebrew and Greek Originals, and The New English Bible, just to name a few. Yeshua is the Father of Eternity because eternal life comes to us through him. And so it is written in Heb.5:9, "And being made perfect, he became the author (or father) of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"

Prophecy was foretold, that men who KNOW the Prophecy would RECOGNIZE the FULFILLMENT of Gods Promise to Walk among men.

You don't appear to RECOGNIZE the FULFILLMENT....even when Jesus said...
The OT was About Him.

Now you are taking the same approach as others on this thread. Since you can't refute the Scriptures I present or my view, you accuse me of being carnally minded. Sad indeed.

My Approach is to TRUST the Lords Understanding of His own Word.
I do not agree with you, and said so.
I have shown what I trust to believe and why.
I have no obligation to show you are wrong...
I simply choose to believe By the knowledge revealed in Scripture My God is not some little compact floating invisible Spirit, but rather has very Specific parts of His makeup and desires me to know what they are, and what Name He assigns to them....

Just as you have assigned to YOURSELF...the Name..."gadar perets" ....

You agreed....Jesus is the "true light'...so since you do not believe the Father and Son are ONE GOD....what "LIGHT" do you think the "FATHER" is?

(1 John 1:5..........GOD IS LIGHT)

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

What do you do with John 14:26? But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Did not JESUS come in his father name?

Yeshua is. Why? Because he is filled without measure with the Spirit of Truth (the Holy Spirit).

scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:15 "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2 Corinthians 3:16 "Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

PCY

 

[Taken]

Thanks for your prayer for me. I will leave you with this;

If Yeshua is God, and Yeshua has a God, then you have two Gods and are polytheistic just like all the other nations in this world. Also, since Yeshua died he certainly wasn't much of a God. My God (Yeshua's Father) has inherent immortality and cannot die.

No.

Perhaps a Carnal analogy would help you.

The US President HAS a President... like every US citizen.
It just so happens the President's President is himself.

The President IS subject to the Laws and Rules that specifically Apply To the President....AS God the Father and God the Son Are SUBJECT TO the Laws and Rules that Apply to God.

Ex.
God can not Lie
God can not Sin
God can not reproduce
Etc.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[101G]

No.

Perhaps a Carnal analogy would help you.

The US President HAS a President... like every US citizen.
It just so happens the President's President is himself.

The President IS subject to the Laws and Rules that specifically Apply To the President....AS God the Father and God the Son Are SUBJECT TO the Laws and Rules that Apply to God.

Ex.
God can not Lie
God can not Sin
God can not reproduce
Etc.

God Bless,
Taken

interesting example....

 

[gadar perets]

Ex 2:2
Ex 2:4

Did you mean Ex 3:2 and 3:4? If so, in verse 2 of chapter 3, we see it is actually “the angel of YHWH” that appears in the burning bush and talks to Moses. This is confirmed again in Acts 7:35; “This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.” As YHWH’s agent or chosen representative, the angel had full authority to command Moses and to use YHWH’s name.

 

[gadar perets]

Did not JESUS come in his father name?

Yes. That means he came in his Father's authority.

scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:15 "But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

2 Corinthians 3:16 "Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

PCY

So, explain to me the process that takes place based on John 14:16 and 26. Do we ask Yeshua for the gift of the Holy Spirit and then He prays to the Father to give it to us and then the Son sends himself into us? Or does it play out some other way?