Missing from bible

[StanJ]

so when Jesus says He has other Sheep to speak to, it means He did not speak to other sheep? makes no sense to me but ok

He didn't say he had other sheep to speak to, I suggest you reread John 10:16.
Usually when the Bible doesn't make sense to somebody it's because they haven't read it properly.

 

[jaybird]

He didn't say he had other sheep to speak to, I suggest you reread John 10:16.
Usually when the Bible doesn't make sense to somebody it's because they haven't read it properly.

John 10:16
Other sheep I have also, which are not of this fold: them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice: and (B)there shall be [j]one sheepfold, and one shepherd.

so when Jesus says He has other sheep , in the passage above, and they must hear His voice. what it means is these sheep will not hear His voice?

thank you for helping me understand it "properly" stan!

 

[mjrhealth]

so when Jesus says He has other Sheep to speak to, it means He did not speak to other sheep?

makes no sense to me but ok

Of course it makes no sense to you, you are looing with your eyes and cannot see, JEsus was only sent to the Jews when He was here, thats why he said,

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I twas Peter after His vision that was sent to the gentiles, do you think that just because Jesus went to teh father that, it was the end of it, that was only the beginning,

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me..

A firend of mine asked Him once, why he speks to her.? and His answer was.

Its not that I speak to you, i speak to everyman, its just that few will listen,
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What is that rock, it is revelation that only comes from God, and some will never get it because they dont believe God.

Being a christian does not make one His sheep. Its a lot more than just that.

 

[jaybird]

Of course it makes no sense to you, you are looing with your eyes and cannot see, JEsus was only sent to the Jews when He was here, thats why he said,

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I twas Peter after His vision that was sent to the gentiles, do you think that just because Jesus went to teh father that, it was the end of it, that was only the beginning,

Rev_3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me..

A firend of mine asked Him once, why he speks to her.? and His answer was.

Its not that I speak to you, i speak to everyman, its just that few will listen,
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

What is that rock, it is revelation that only comes from God, and some will never get it because they dont believe God.

Being a christian does not make one His sheep. Its a lot more than just that.

and what of the passage where Jesus says He has other sheep? is it one of those passages we act as if it dont exist?

i dont get it. i never get things like this. what difference would it make yet this is one of those things, which is backed by scripture, yet so many Christians will fight this to the death, twisting, bending, ignoring scripture because they dont things like this to exist, why? does it turn Christianity on its head, no, it doesnt change what Jesus taught. its mind boggling.

 

[OzSpen]

so when Jesus says He has other Sheep to speak to, it means He did not speak to other sheep?

makes no sense to me but ok

Please read what John 10:16 actually states. It says not a word about 'he has other Sheep to speak to'. That's your invention.

 

[OzSpen]

you and stan both said Jesus was talking about gentiles. gentile is every other nation on the planet other than the Jews. which could be britons, indians, or natives.

'Which could be britons, indians or natives' is your arguing from silence. We have not a shred of evidence that the 'other sheep' of John 10:16 (ESV) refers to the Brits, Indians or Natives. But it was you who suggested back in #223 that the other sheep refers to 'in the UK, India, north america and central america'. That is not what John 10:16 states.

I do wish you would not invent material and impose on the biblical text to fit in with your preconceived views.

Oz

 

[jaybird]

Of course it makes no sense to you, you are looing with your eyes and cannot see, JEsus was only sent to the Jews when He was here, thats why he said,

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

interesting the bible makes a point to tell us Jesus was in the region of Tyre, a Canaanite city. and the lady He spoke with was a Canaanite. were the Canaanites just any typical nation? are we not told they were cursed. remember the king of tyre? they are the only culture i am aware of that our Lord ordered to be completely annihilated including women, children, even the animals. why would the Lord do that, it shows us IMO the Canaanites were not just another nation. do you really think Jesus thought every non Jew was a dog? Jesus knew good and well who these people were which puts the passage in a new light.

or maybe i am just not seeing . . . .

 

[jaybird]

Please read what John 10:16 actually states. It says not a word about 'he has other Sheep to speak to'. That's your invention.

John 10:16
Other sheep I have also, which are not of this fold: them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice: and (B)there shall be [j]one sheepfold, and one shepherd.

 

[mjrhealth]

and what of the passage where Jesus says He has other sheep? is it one of those passages we act as if it dont exist?

i dont get it. i never get things like this. what difference would it make yet this is one of those things, which is backed by scripture, yet so many Christians will fight this to the death, twisting, bending, ignoring scripture because they dont things like this to exist, why? does it turn Christianity on its head, no, it doesnt change what Jesus taught. its mind boggling.

Becuase of

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

or as Jesus put it

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

or

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thats why He says

Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

It is teh Holy Spirirt given to "all" men who beleiev who teaches us as it is written

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The only authority we have is Christ, He is the truth and in him there is no lie.

 

[jaybird]

'Which could be britons, indians or natives' is your arguing from silence. We have not a shred of evidence that the 'other sheep' of John 10:16 (ESV) refers to the Brits, Indians or Natives. But it was you who suggested back in #223 that the other sheep refers to 'in the UK, India, north america and central america'. That is not what John 10:16 states.

I do wish you would not invent material and impose on the biblical text to fit in with your preconceived views.

Oz

i never made a statement such as "the natives are the lost sheep because Jesus said they were"

i was pointing to what Jesus said about lost sheep. which He said and pointing out there ae traditions that support it. i didnt put the 2 together and state it as a biblical fact, i think you already knew that.

 

[jaybird]

Becuase of

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

or as Jesus put it

Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
Joh 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
Joh 6:50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

or

Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Thats why He says

Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

It is teh Holy Spirirt given to "all" men who beleiev who teaches us as it is written

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The only authority we have is Christ, He is the truth and in him there is no lie.

and not one of these passages say Jesus did not go to other sheep.

 

[StanJ]

John 10:16
Other sheep I have also, which are not of this fold: them also must I bring, and they shall hear my voice: and (B)there shall be [j]one sheepfold, and one shepherd.

so when Jesus says He has other sheep , in the passage above, and they must hear His voice. what it means is these sheep will not hear His voice?

thank you for helping me understand it "properly" stan!

I really can't help it if you're going to be deliberately obtuse. Did everybody who came to Jesus in the New Testament actually hear his physical voice? Just to be clear the answer is no. If you don't get the allegory then your problem is reading comprehension not the word of God.

 

[StanJ]

i never made a statement such as "the natives are the lost sheep because Jesus said they were"

i was pointing to what Jesus said about lost sheep. which He said and pointing out there ae traditions that support it. i didnt put the 2 together and state it as a biblical fact, i think you already knew that.

Oz didn't say that either but you keep equivocating about what other people say. He did not even use the words 'lost sheep' as you do here so either learn how to follow the conversation properly or bow out. Your type of deflection and obfuscation is not very popular on this forum.

 

[StanJ]

i never made a statement such as "the natives are the lost sheep because Jesus said they were"

i was pointing to what Jesus said about lost sheep. which He said and pointing out there ae traditions that support it. i didnt put the 2 together and state it as a biblical fact, i think you already knew that.

You just tried to make it appear as if this is what you were saying obviously or some of us wouldn't have gotten that implication. As you've already been showing the Christian message didn't come to North America until the 1400s at the earliest. If you don't believe that historical fact then obviously you're going to have problems with believing what the Bible actually does say without implying things it doesn't.

 

[mjrhealth]

and not one of these passages say Jesus did not go to other sheep.

Well to put it in any other way

1Co_3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Because

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jesus is still going to His sheep. it never ended at His resurection thats when it all just started, but you dont understand because you cannot see. The old covenant was only made with the Jews, that is why Jesus only went to teh Jews, the old covenant ended at His death the new started at pentecost when teh Holy Spirit fell upon teh disciples and believers, thet is when Peter was sent to the Gentiles it is als after this that,

Joh_21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh_21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

And so after his resurecto Peter was sent to His sheep which now includes both Jews and gentiles, those that,

Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If you do not hear His voice you are not His, that simple, doesnt mean one is not saved.

 

[jaybird]

I really can't help it if you're going to be deliberately obtuse. Did everybody who came to Jesus in the New Testament actually hear his physical voice? Just to be clear the answer is no. If you don't get the allegory then your problem is reading comprehension not the word of God.

reading comprehension interesting.

they shall hear my voice - i read and understand this as: they shall hear my voice

they shall hear my voice - you read and understand this as: they shall hear my voice but not really my voice.

 

[jaybird]

I really can't help it if you're going to be deliberately obtuse. Did everybody who came to Jesus in the New Testament actually hear his physical voice? Just to be clear the answer is no. If you don't get the allegory then your problem is reading comprehension not the word of God.

oz is a big boy let him speak for himself and stop trying to tag team me.

 

[jaybird]

You just tried to make it appear as if this is what you were saying obviously or some of us wouldn't have gotten that implication. As you've already been showing the Christian message didn't come to North America until the 1400s at the earliest. If you don't believe that historical fact then obviously you're going to have problems with believing what the Bible actually does say without implying things it doesn't.

historical fact?

the history of the native americans is not true? we dont know our own history? i bet if native americans were white europeans no one would have a problem with it.

 

[jaybird]

Well to put it in any other way

1Co_3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Because

Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Jesus is still going to His sheep. it never ended at His resurection thats when it all just started, but you dont understand because you cannot see. The old covenant was only made with the Jews, that is why Jesus only went to teh Jews, the old covenant ended at His death the new started at pentecost when teh Holy Spirit fell upon teh disciples and believers, thet is when Peter was sent to the Gentiles it is als after this that,

Joh_21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh_21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

And so after his resurecto Peter was sent to His sheep which now includes both Jews and gentiles, those that,

Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh_10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

If you do not hear His voice you are not His, that simple, doesnt mean one is not saved.

and again (2nd time) not one of these passages says Jesus did not go to other sheep.

 

[OzSpen]

i never made a statement such as "the natives are the lost sheep because Jesus said they were"

i was pointing to what Jesus said about lost sheep. which He said and pointing out there ae traditions that support it. i didnt put the 2 together and state it as a biblical fact, i think you already knew that.

Please go back to #223 to see what you actually did write. John 10:16 states, 'He has other Sheep'. That does not state 'He has other sheep to speak to'.

I will leave discussion there as you don't want to admit to what you actually wrote.

Oz