More about the Bible

[Robert Gwin]

UNity does not mean conformity. Paul said we will not agree on everything!

Romans 14
King James Version

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.


And this goes for celebrating holidays and many other things a believer has liberty in.

Not like the Watchtower where one can be disfellowshipped for celebrating christmas as the birth of Jesus, or taking his wife out to dinner with a box of chocolates and flowers for valentines day. I don't know if celebrating thanksgiving is still a sin according ot the man made teachings of the Watchtower.

You are correct sir, there is latitude, however it is within the guidelines. Obedience to Christian laws is not negotiable, but if you want to draw a line of perfect in the middle on a law, some may lean to the positive or negative part of that line, but although maybe not being fully in agreement, they have to stay within those boundaries, or it becomes sin. If you want to post where you think the governing body is out of line, I will be glad to give you the Scriptural reason we believe the way we do.
Christians do not celebrate birthdays in the Bible, and of course you are aware that God does not like lies, so certainly christmas is out of the question. The very word holiday stands for holy day, or in otherwords a religious celebration. The only commanded celebration in Scripture is memorializing the death of Jesus, which we do every Nisan 14. Were you aware that your own personal birthday is the number one holy day in the satanic bible by anton levey?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with thanksgiving of course, other than someone setting it aside to only be thankful once a year, we are thankful every day sir. Many of us meet with families on that day, not because of it being a holy day, as it is no more holy that day than any other, but because most are off work and available to meet at that time. However with the scene of this world changing so much, no doubt much less of us are meeting together that day.

 

[Behold]

Did you know that to date everyone who died went to hell sir, including Jesus? Would you like to examine what hell is?

Please write questions that make sense to other people.
That would be very helpful.

And 'Hell" is created for the devil and his angels, before Adam was created.

Where is hell found?
Its found at the end of every Christ Rejecting Life....which includes being water baptized but never actually born again.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Did you know that to date everyone who died went to hell sir, including Jesus? Would you like to examine what hell is?

Hell properly is the three fold grave where souls went.

Teh body went into teh ground and the soul and spirit went to one of three places called hell.

1. Abrahams Bosom/Paradise righteous went here only until Jesus physically ascended. Now the righteous dead when they depart their body, they are present with the Lord.

2. Place of Torments. Where the lost souls go awaiting finally judgment in the lake of fire.

3. Tartarus. Where the angels who rebelled in Gen. 6 and had sex with human women are chained awaiting the Lake of Fire.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I agree with most of what you say Ron, except your disagreement with this passage:
(Luke 22:19) . . .Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body, which is to be given in your behalf. . . .

Jesus rose a spirit, but he did appear bodily after he was resurrected, but not in the body he had occupied prior to death, as all of his intimate friends is not going to forget what he looked like in less than 3 days: (1 Corinthians 15:45) . . .“The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
(1 Peter 3:18) . . .For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. . .

And you forgfet that those who did not recognize Him were kept from recognizing Him until He wished it. He rose in the glorified immortal body all true believers will put on when the time arrives! As it is written by the Apostle Paul in corinthians. YOu forget that His body was not allowed to see corruption because He rose from the dead. If his body did not rise then He could not have been risen from teh dead for ana-stasdia is a standing again. You know this but continually set this aside to promote the Arian heresy teh Watchtower is founded on and added to by teh man made organization of the Watchtower. It is the blood that is given for the atonement not the body, and I can't speak to the garbled mistranslation of Jesus words you quoted from the NWT.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You are correct sir, there is latitude, however it is within the guidelines. Obedience to Christian laws is not negotiable, but if you want to draw a line of perfect in the middle on a law, some may lean to the positive or negative part of that line, but although maybe not being fully in agreement, they have to stay within those boundaries, or it becomes sin. If you want to post where you think the governing body is out of line, I will be glad to give you the Scriptural reason we believe the way we do.
Christians do not celebrate birthdays in the Bible, and of course you are aware that God does not like lies, so certainly christmas is out of the question. The very word holiday stands for holy day, or in otherwords a religious celebration. The only commanded celebration in Scripture is memorializing the death of Jesus, which we do every Nisan 14. Were you aware that your own personal birthday is the number one holy day in the satanic bible by anton levey?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with thanksgiving of course, other than someone setting it aside to only be thankful once a year, we are thankful every day sir. Many of us meet with families on that day, not because of it being a holy day, as it is no more holy that day than any other, but because most are off work and available to meet at that time. However with the scene of this world changing so much, no doubt much less of us are meeting together that day.

Job celebrated his kids birthdays. Jews celebrated certain birthdays. But as it is not forbidden then it is allowed according to ones conscience as Paul declared in Romans 14. Same with Christmas! If they celebrate Christmas as a time to rejoice in teh birth of Jesus our Savior- there is no sin! Even with all the pagan trappings! As long as the heart is towards God and not the feast of Sasturnalia. Just like you celebrating thanksgiving with your family! The Watchtower using vain philosophy created these man made laws, just like the roman Chruch made up laws like novenas, indulgences etc.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Please write questions that make sense to other people.
That would be very helpful.

And 'Hell" is created for the devil and his angels, before Adam was created.

Where is hell found?
Its found at the end of every Christ Rejecting Life....which includes being water baptized but never actually born again.

Why did Jesus go to hell sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hell properly is the three fold grave where souls went.

Teh body went into teh ground and the soul and spirit went to one of three places called hell.

1. Abrahams Bosom/Paradise righteous went here only until Jesus physically ascended. Now the righteous dead when they depart their body, they are present with the Lord.

2. Place of Torments. Where the lost souls go awaiting finally judgment in the lake of fire.

3. Tartarus. Where the angels who rebelled in Gen. 6 and had sex with human women are chained awaiting the Lake of Fire.

Hell has been applied as you state in those ways Ron, but those "places" are not all the same. Like satan said you believe something lives on, many use the term immortal soul, but Jehovah stated the wages that sin pays are death, from the very beginning sir. The Bible defines death, which is an unconscious state. Hell is an English word some translators use for the word sheol and hades as originally written in the Bible. Sheol is translated hell 31x, grave 31x, and pit 3 times in the King James version of the Bible, of course they all mean the same thing, sheol. The definition of sheol is the abode of the dead, so grave is the most accurate rendering in the proper understanding of the word. Hades is the exact same thing as sheol, except it was penned in Greek. We know this because of a prophecy and fulfillment of Jesus. Please read Ps 16:10 in your Bible sir, this was a prophecy of Jesus, and now look at Acts 2:31, where you will see the fulfillment see how sheol and hades are the same place?

The second way you gave came from the word Gehenna, which is not even related sir, so the translators that rendered it hell are quite a ways off, you actually stated it correctly, it represents the lake of fire where the "lost souls" as you say go. We are privileged that Jehovah had insight to the way people would promote it, so He had it defined in both places where it occurs in Scripture, it means the second death Ron. In fact even hell itself is cast into it as there is no more need for the grave at that time, since there will be no more death as well, which is also cast into it.

Tartarus, is not a place, rather a judgment. When the demons forsook their proper dwelling place and came down from heaven to take on wives, they received this judgment, but still had access to the heavens, until the war in heaven cast satan and them to the earth which started the last days, soon Jesus will return and remove them and satan from the earth to the abyss for a millennium. So you can discern by this it is not a place, but they have been judged and at the appointed time have their part in the lake of fire after their release at the end of the millennial reign of Christ.

Hope that helps sir.

 

[Behold]

Why did Jesus go to hell sir?

Because this is the full payment for sin.

Its what would happen to everyone who does not believe.....so, Jesus paid the ultimate payment so that the "world's sin" could be resolved.

See, the judgement for sin, is "you go to hell"........ as this is the cost of "dying in your sins".. John 8:24
So, For Jesus to redeem us from ALL of the eternal judgment due us for our sin, he had to go to HELL as we would have gone.

ON the Cross......"Jesus became sin"..........and so the cost of this, is to go to Hell, as well as dying for sin.

This is God as Christ paying the entire cost of "judgment for sin"., so that we dont have to be judged and pay for it ourselves after we die.

This is "the gift of Salvation".

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hell has been applied as you state in those ways Ron, but those "places" are not all the same. Like satan said you believe something lives on, many use the term immortal soul, but Jehovah stated the wages that sin pays are death, from the very beginning sir. The Bible defines death, which is an unconscious state. Hell is an English word some translators use for the word sheol and hades as originally written in the Bible. Sheol is translated hell 31x, grave 31x, and pit 3 times in the King James version of the Bible, of course they all mean the same thing, sheol. The definition of sheol is the abode of the dead, so grave is the most accurate rendering in the proper understanding of the word. Hades is the exact same thing as sheol, except it was penned in Greek. We know this because of a prophecy and fulfillment of Jesus. Please read Ps 16:10 in your Bible sir, this was a prophecy of Jesus, and now look at Acts 2:31, where you will see the fulfillment see how sheol and hades are the same place?

The second way you gave came from the word Gehenna, which is not even related sir, so the translators that rendered it hell are quite a ways off, you actually stated it correctly, it represents the lake of fire where the "lost souls" as you say go. We are privileged that Jehovah had insight to the way people would promote it, so He had it defined in both places where it occurs in Scripture, it means the second death Ron. In fact even hell itself is cast into it as there is no more need for the grave at that time, since there will be no more death as well, which is also cast into it.

Tartarus, is not a place, rather a judgment. When the demons forsook their proper dwelling place and came down from heaven to take on wives, they received this judgment, but still had access to the heavens, until the war in heaven cast satan and them to the earth which started the last days, soon Jesus will return and remove them and satan from the earth to the abyss for a millennium. So you can discern by this it is not a place, but they have been judged and at the appointed time have their part in the lake of fire after their release at the end of the millennial reign of Christ.

Hope that helps sir.

And you get an A for regurgitating Watchtower false doctrine!

And the Watchtower is a liar! the grave while the body is dead, is where disembodied souls go. Now that Jesus ascended physically, when a saint dies as Paul declared under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they are absent from the body and present with the Lord.

If teh Watchtower had integrity they would acknowledge this as written and not reinterpreted and also recognize the story of Lazarus and the rich man is an historic account and some story the watchtower gives a convoluted explanation to.

By repeating these lies, you tie yourself to that organizations condemnation.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Because this is the full payment for sin.

Its what would happen to everyone who does not believe.....so, Jesus paid the ultimate payment so that the "world's sin" could be resolved.

See, the judgement for sin, is "you go to hell"........ as this is the cost of "dying in your sins".. John 8:24
So, For Jesus to redeem us from ALL of the eternal judgment due us for our sin, he had to go to HELL as we would have gone.

ON the Cross......"Jesus became sin"..........and so the cost of this, is to go to Hell, as well as dying for sin.

This is God as Christ paying the entire cost of "judgment for sin"., so that we dont have to be judged and pay for it ourselves after we die.

This is "the gift of Salvation".

I understand your line of thinking on that sir, but in reality Jesus did not sin, but he went to hell because he died. Every single individual that dies, and yes I agree death is a result of sin in natural death cases, goes to hell/grave/pit. Perhaps you will rejoice along with me when everyone is released from hell, and then there will no longer be a need for it so it gets cast into the lake of fire Rev 20:13,14. Sometimes people ask me what is the good news, I think you will agree, that is definitely great news.

 

[Robert Gwin]

And you get an A for regurgitating Watchtower false doctrine!

And the Watchtower is a liar! the grave while the body is dead, is where disembodied souls go. Now that Jesus ascended physically, when a saint dies as Paul declared under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, they are absent from the body and present with the Lord.

If teh Watchtower had integrity they would acknowledge this as written and not reinterpreted and also recognize the story of Lazarus and the rich man is an historic account and some story the watchtower gives a convoluted explanation to.

By repeating these lies, you tie yourself to that organizations condemnation.

God said: (Genesis 2:17) . . .But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.. . .

satan said: (Genesis 3:4) At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.

God defined what death is: (Psalm 146:4) His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.

(Ecclesiastes 9:5-10) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, . . . 10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.

Me I choose to believe God Ronald, and it is nice to know that the Watchtower does as well sir, thanks for bringing that out.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God said: (Genesis 2:17) . . .But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.. . .

satan said: (Genesis 3:4) At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.

God defined what death is: (Psalm 146:4) His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.

(Ecclesiastes 9:5-10) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, . . . 10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.

Me I choose to believe God Ronald, and it is nice to know that the Watchtower does as well sir, thanks for bringing that out.

Well you should study exactly what god said in the garden as warning. And the afterlife wasn't revealed until the time of David and Solomon. Solomon here is talking about human life. Remember the witch of Endor raised the Spirit of Samuel!

Lazarus and th erich man is a true account and not a parable. The people of Jesus day knew full well about the place of torment and Abrahams bosom.

And Paul under the Inpsiration of God wrote that to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord! Present not future!

Also Paul praised that god would bless believers in their body, soul and spirit! The bible is true- the Watchtower lies!

 

[dev553344]

The only reason God will let you into His heaven is because Christ went to the Cross.
There is no other way. John 14:6

This thread is about studying the scriptures to show that we are approved. While your statement is partially correct, it leaves out key scriptures that say we are to provide works meet for repentance to be saved , otherwise we are cast into the lake of fire Matthew 3:8-10, Matthew 25:31-46.

 

[dev553344]

I think it's also important to note the other works required for salvation, like water baptism and taking the bread and wine of the sacrament. These are acts that we perform, works that are required for salvation. They are works that show that we are repenting of our wickedness, like obeying the commandments.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well you should study exactly what god said in the garden as warning. And the afterlife wasn't revealed until the time of David and Solomon. Solomon here is talking about human life. Remember the witch of Endor raised the Spirit of Samuel!

Lazarus and th erich man is a true account and not a parable. The people of Jesus day knew full well about the place of torment and Abrahams bosom.

And Paul under the Inpsiration of God wrote that to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord! Present not future!

Also Paul praised that god would bless believers in their body, soul and spirit! The bible is true- the Watchtower lies!

Wasn't really any need to discuss it sir, there was to be no afterlife. That become a necessity after Adam's sin.

The parable of the Rich man and Lazarus was of course a parable, Jesus gave it, therefore the ransom had not yet been paid, no one had received their reward as of that time. Did we discuss the meaning of it sir?

You realize that being present with the Lord to those whom Paul was speaking to would not happen until the first resurrection correct Rev 20:6

Do you have a lie produced by the Watchtower you would like to discuss sir?