The biblical description shows that God will restore this whole fallen creation back when He returns - all things.
More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism
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The biblical description shows that God will restore this whole fallen creation back when He returns - all things.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Christ is coming back to a perfect glorified regenerated earth to reign forever with the suitably attired glorified saints. But, it will not be sin-cursed, goat-infested, or death-blighted, as Premils argue.
Acts 3:19-21: “the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the the times of restitution [Gr. apokatastasis or reconstitution] of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
“The times of refreshing” and “the restitution of all things” expressly coincides with the Lord’s appearing, thus proving the all-consummating nature of that glorious event.
The sense and meaning of the word apocatastasis here is ‘a restoration of things to its first state’ (or ‘to return to its former state’).
Webster's 1828 Dictionary says, “‘Restitution’ means ‘The act of recovering a former state or posture, the putting the world in a holy and happy state’.”
In everyday language it refers to a return to the original place. For example, the return of a ship to its home port; in astronomy it meant the cyclical return of a planet to the point where it was found earlier; in medicine it meant the return of a patient to health.
Whilst the Greek word apokatastasis is only found in Acts 3:21, the root word apokathistemi is found 8 times in Scripture. We see the restorative sense of the word in the story of the man with the withered hand in Matthew 12:13, where it says, “it was restored (apokathistemi) whole, like as the other.”
Likewise, in Mark 8:25 the blind man received his sight it says, “he was restored (apokathistemi), and saw every man clearly.”
This passage is clear in its instruction: “the heaven must receive (or dechomai, or detain)” Jesus Christ “until the times of restitution of all things.”
Jesus isn’t going anywhere until the restoration of fallen creation!
We are clearly looking at a renovation, reconstitution and restoration of creation when Jesus comes, not a complete recreation.
Earburner
Well-Known Member
Again I say: only man had the opportunity for eternal life. If they had eaten of the Tree of Life FIRST, they would have had eternal life in innocense. Unfortunately they didn't, and instead ate of the forbidden tree first, and were cast out of the garden, lest they eat of the Tree of Life, and then recieve eternal life along with their corrupted minds.
Not one single animal, bird or plant was created by God having eternal existence of any kind.
In the return of the Lord from Heaven, we are talking about a time of no more death. There are only two parameters here:
1. We who are Born again shall NEVER die.
2. All and everything that is not born again, shall SURELY die. In other words, no more pro-creation, because nothing of mere flesh will survive the Lord's return, who is a consuming fire.
All of that is simply spoken of in John 3:18, of which clearly reveals the two judgments of God: #1 against man, as well as #2, which is for man.
1. Eternal death through Adam.
2. Eternal life through faith in Christ.
No other life forms shall participate in #2.
Upon the Lord's Glorious return from Heaven, in His Immortality, the judgments above will be carried out, as clearly shown in KJV Luke 17:28-30, 2 Thes. 1:7-10, 1 Peter 3:10-13, 1 John 5:12-13.
Do you accept that this earth is going to be regenerated or purged from the consequences of the fall when Jesus comes?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Why would you claim it is totally destroyed, but then regenerated?
You don't accept that God is going to create a totally different creation in Revelation 21?
This creation is finished at your finished point. It ceases to exist when you claim time is no more. You are not even consistent in your logical Amil outcome. Time is one of the parts of creation. No more time, no more creation.
This creation is not going to be restored since your climactic destruction is just that, climactic and the end, nothing will exist after that.
At least premill have a reason to restore current creation. There is still 1,000 years left of God's original plan for this creation.
Amil have nothing and no reason at all. They claim this last 2,000 years is Jesus subduing and bringing creation under subjection. Then it is destroyed and that is it. This current creation no longer exists.
Please do not speak on my behalf about anything. You will never be my spokesman.
Are you also finished when you get glorified?
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Creation is not "finished" when Jesus comes; it is changed, it is glorified, it is perfected, it is renewed. What is finished is the bondage of corruption. It is purged from creation forever. This is another truth that negates Premil. Creation will be restored so that the redeemed and glorified creature
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
A son of God is a seperate creation from the rest of creation. Why do you lump humanity in with creation?
Yes, a son of God is a finished completed work after being glorified. The sons of God were complete on the 6th day when they were created. It was only Adam's disobedience that destroyed his offspring and placed them all in a state of death.
But sin was also placed on the rest of creation per Paul. So all of creation experienced death and decay.
But the restoration only comes after all this corruption of death is burned away by the cleansing fire at the Second Coming. Then the earth is ruled over until it is once more subdued, or brought under subjection like the task given to humans on the 6th day. This time Christ the King will be in charge with those reigning with Him over all their families for 1,000 years.
Why do you take the Amil theory so personally?
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
That is not what you claim. You claim it is climactically destroyed as in nothing is left. That is the point of the next creation starting immediately after the Second Coming.
Paul states:
"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
God on the GWT is technically the only thing left of creation. John states creation fled away. Putting both together would mean creation could no longer be viewed nor experienced. It literally stops existing. Then John sees a totally different creation as in Genesis 1:1.
God does not change creation in Revelation 20:11.
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."
It says creation could no longer be found. There was no place for the heavens and the earth. That is not the Second Coming event. That is when Jesus returns a complete and finished creation back to God, and then God alone exists, and no creation can be found at that point.
You are living in fantasy land. If there are billions of sinners on your new earth then it is blighted with corruption. Hello! This is another Premil myth that doesn't add up. This is why the doctrine should be abandoned by all Bible-believing Christians.
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Instead of constantly making these false claims, prove them. Give us a quote.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
They are not deceived until after the Millennium.
You live in this fantasy land of billions of sinners.
It is not a myth they are deceived after the Millennium.
"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth."
You refute your own point when you call Scripture a myth.
Satan deceives them after the 1000 years, not during. Talk to God about why you reject His Word and call it fantasy and myth.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The unindoctrinated Bible student should have no difficulty in understanding the meaning and weightiness of the phrases/events “the beginning” and “the end.” That is because they actually mean what they say. These expressions are often used on their own throughout Scripture because the Holy Spirit evidently expects the believer to take God literally at His Word and accept these plain and obvious statements at face value.
Whether one is reading a book, watching a movie, or observing a ball-game, the concept of “the beginning” and “the end” of something is too obvious to even debate or explain. Hello! It is as clear as clear can be. We are talking about basic 101 comprehension.
To fully understand “the end” it is important to be fully informed about “the beginning.” We need to start off by realizing that one is the complete antithesis of the other.
Solomon declared in Ecclesiastes 3:11: “He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning [Heb. rô'sh] to the end [Heb. sôph].”
No one would think of interpreting this in any other way but it’s plain straightforward translation: the beginning is the beginning and the end is the end. These two highlighted Hebrew words contrast two completely diverse events, one relating to the commencement of creation and the other to the conclusion. So, rô'sh and sôph cover these two great realties.
Isaiah 46:9-10 uses two other Hebrew words that are more commonly used in the Old Testament. The text reads: “I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end [Heb. achărı̂yth] from the beginning [Heb. rê'shı̂yth], and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying.”
This contrast is extremely useful in that it gives us a sense of the two antithetical events – it gives us the two divergent realities. It also supplies us with two suitable Hebrew words for the same.
It is the same in the New Testament. Jesus teaches in Revelation 22:6: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning [Gr. archē] and the end [Gr. telos].”
Jesus said in Revelation 22:13: “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning [Gr. archē] and the end [Gr. telos], the first [Gr. protos] and the last [Gr. eschatos].”
It is not hard to grasp the import of this teaching. Firstly, Alpha (Α or α) and omega (Ω or ω) are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet. These sum up the divine character of Jesus. Next, we are confronted with the words “first” and “last.” The English words are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other. Frequently they are found in the same verse and in the same setting to relay opposites. Also, we are told that Christ is “the beginning and the end.” Again, it is not hard to get our heads round this. He is from start to finish.
Would an objective Christian question the meaning of “the beginning” and “the end” here? Of course not! It is as plain as day in its import and context.
The Old Testament prophets and the New Testament writers frequently referred to the beginning of creation, this world, time, and life as simply “the beginning” and the termination of time, the removal of the bondage of corruption and the introduction of the new eternal state as “the end.”
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
So why are you bent out of shape when I pointed out what you have always stated?
Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 does not say the Second Coming is the end. He says the Second Coming is just one event in a certain order of events.
The OT were let out of Abraham's bosom and given life in Paradise at the Cross. At the Second Coming the church will be glorified, and those redeemed on earth will be given life.
Then comes the end after a millineum of Christ on earth.
Those in Abraham's bosom had to wait 4,000 years. Those currently in Paradise have waited 2,000 years. Certainly you can wait 1,000 years until the end, no?
If you had lived in Noah's day, you would have declared the Flood was the end, and the last two thirds of Creation would have never happened in your eschatology. There would have been no Abraham, no Moses, no Jesus, and no NT saints. That would have been too much for God to allow happen. The pre-flood tribulation would bring the end to all existence.
You obviously think that you saying a thing makes it a fact. Well, no. Sorry to burst your bubble. The inspired text forbids your beliefs. The kingdom is handed up at the second coming. You are 100 years too late. You are gerrymandering Scripture to support your non-corroborative error. Paul confirms the finality of the return of Jesus, in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24, stating, “as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming [Gr. parousia]. Then cometh the end [Gr. telos], when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”
Please note the careful correlation between the parousia and the telos. This is a truth that is found throughout the NT. They are synonymous with each other. There is absolutely nothing that Premillennialists can do with such a clear and climactic passage apart from deny the obvious or add unto Scripture by inserting “a thousand years” in-between the coming (parousia) of Christ and the end (telos) where it does not belong. This is the dilemma for Premil throughout the Word. They are fighting the obvious.
The Greek simply reads:
Christos – Christ
en – at
autos – His
parousia – coming
eita – then
telos – the end
The coming of the Lord is shown to be the end of the world. There is no gap of time in-between the coming of Christ, the resurrection and the end. They all belong to the one final climactic overall event.
The phrase “he shall have delivered up” comes from the single Greek word paradidomi meaning surrender, yield up, intrust, or transmit. This is what happens to the kingdom when Christ comes. He surrenders it to His Father, He yields it up.
The converse phrase “he shall have put down” comes from the single Greek word katargeo meaning: bring to nought, none effect, or abolish. This is what happens to “all” existing “rule and all authority and power” when Jesus Comes. The rule of man comes to an end and now it becomes the rule of God.
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Earburner
Well-Known Member
As a progressive, born again Amillenniast, no I do not. My reasoning is based on the simple and plain words of Peter 2:10-13. Specifically verse 13.
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
There is only one form of righteousness that will exist in the NHNE, and that is God's Righteousness. All we, who are Born again of His Spirit of righteousness, must cease our thinking through our natural man's mind, and learn through His Holy Spirit, to think through the mind of Christ within us.
First question to ask is: where is the KoG and His Righteousness? Well, we both do know, it is in Jesus. And if through faith in Jesus, he does dwell in us, then God and His Righteousness, who dwells in Him, comes with him, and they together are one within us, through the veil of his flesh.
In the first of the three manifestations of Jesus, through His mortal flesh, he said:
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Luke 17:21
"Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you [Jesus himself], and shall be in you." John 14:17.
Okay, so where does the Righteousness of God dwell NOW, ever since Pentecost?
Within us! Which has been God's deepest desire, through the ages of much "longsuffering", that He may permanently dwell within the crown of His creation, our earthen vessels.
We ARE the mansions of God. Jesus went before us in preparation, so that we could also be IN His Father's "house", who is Jesus Himself. John 14:1-6.
To be IN Jesus, is to be IN the KoG.
To be brief and to the point:
the New Heaven, aka Heavenly Jerusalem, is Jesus, who is quite literally His Father's house. And now we, who have spiritually risen with Christ, but still waiting for immortality after His likeness, will be ourselves the New earth, wherein dwelleth God's Righteousness, which is God the Father Himself, through the veil of His Son, being together as One in Holy Spirit.
2 Cor. 4
[7] But we have this treasure [God Himself, through Jesus] in earthen vessels [the earth of our mortal bodies, made from the dust of the earth], that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
That is why I say that God the Father needed the sacrifice of His Son, just as much as we need him. Jesus IS the perfect Mediator between God Himself, Who is always and only Spirit, and we, who will one day be Immortal flesh, shall permanently be the NEW earth, that God Himself and His Righteousness, has longsuffered to dwell in.
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I know all this. I have no major issue with your argument. But where is your evidence that this earth will not continue in a perfected state?
Ecclesiastes 1:4 says, “the earth abideth forever.”
Psalm 78:69 says, “the earth which he hath established forever.”
Psalm 93:1b says, “The world also is established, that it cannot be moved.”
Psalm 96:10 says, “the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved.”
Psalm 104:5 says, “Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed forever.”
This literally means “So that it will not totter forever and ever." The word totter means, to refrain from moving out of place.
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