More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

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Spiritual Israelite

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Disobedience to God is a sin. But you have not shown they disobeyed God. You only speculate based on the fact they were consumed with fire. You don't seem to accept that God may have taken their life before they even disobeyed.
LOL!!! So, them joining with Satan and opposing "the camp of the saints" is not a case of disobeying God in your mind? You think they're doing what God wants them to do by having the intention of destroying His people? Are you even thinking here?

Show me the verse they turned their back on Jesus, who by the way, you claim is not even on the earth, to receive such a gesture.
You think them following after Satan is not a case of turning their back on Jesus? LOL.

Is following Satan a sin?
Yes, of course. You don't think so? LOL.

If he is disobeying the law, and you disobey the law, that would be an act of disobedience.
So, there is no law against following Satan? God is fine with that? LOL.

Thinking about killing is currently a sin.
But, some day it won't be a sin anymore? LOL.

Again a verse that states they were thinking about killing. Can people wage a battle without destroying personal or public property? Do you know where this battle was going to take place? The intent to battle is not breaking a law, unless their is a law against thinking about doing battle.
What do you think they're going to do, invite "the camp of the saints" to join them for dinner? You say "the intent to battle is not breaking a law". Scripture teaches that if you hate someone you are guilty of murder (1 John 3:15). You apparently were not aware of that.

Are you going to capitulate and acknowledge Jesus is ruling on a throne in Jerusalem, and this battle will do Him as God, great harm?
Why would anyone acknowledge this nonsense?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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1. So, according to you, turning your back on Jesus is not sin?
2. Embracing Satan and becoming a follower of him is not sin?
3. Mobilizing in Satan's army to destroy "the camp of the saints" is not sin?
His answer seems to be yes to all 3 questions. Can you believe this nonsense? I have a hard time believing that this guy is for real.
 

Timtofly

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LOL!!! So, them joining with Satan and opposing "the camp of the saints" is not a case of disobeying God in your mind? You think they're doing what God wants them to do by having the intention of destroying His people? Are you even thinking here?


You think them following after Satan is not a case of turning their back on Jesus? LOL.


Yes, of course. You don't think so? LOL.


So, there is no law against following Satan? God is fine with that? LOL.


But, some day it won't be a sin anymore? LOL.


What do you think they're going to do, invite "the camp of the saints" to join them for dinner? You say "the intent to battle is not breaking a law". Scripture teaches that if you hate someone you are guilty of murder (1 John 3:15). You apparently were not aware of that.


Why would anyone acknowledge this nonsense?
Your speculation is not God's Word.

I am looking for Scripture, like you would, if I was making stuff up like you and WPM are.
 

Timtofly

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What do you think they're going to do, invite "the camp of the saints" to join them for dinner? You say "the intent to battle is not breaking a law". Scripture teaches that if you hate someone you are guilty of murder (1 John 3:15). You apparently were not aware of that.
That verse is about Adam's sinful fallen nature.

These people are not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

If Adam thought about eating from the tree, is that the same thing as actually eating?

Do you have a list of laws from this future reign of Christ?

You are speculating they hated the camp of the saints.
 

WPM

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That verse is about Adam's sinful fallen nature.

These people are not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

If Adam thought about eating from the tree, is that the same thing as actually eating?

Do you have a list of laws from this future reign of Christ?

You are speculating they hated the camp of the saints.

Where does it say the redeemed in incorruptible bodies marry and procreate in the age to come?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Where does it say the redeemed in incorruptible bodies marry and procreate in the age to come?
Nowhere, of course. Jesus very specifically said there will be no marriage in the age to come (Luke 20:34-36). Where does this guy get his beliefs from? I think it's possible that he doesn't interpret even one single verse in all of scripture correctly. I just don't get it.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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That verse is about Adam's sinful fallen nature.

These people are not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.
What in the world are you talking about? What evidence do you have to back this up?

If Adam thought about eating from the tree, is that the same thing as actually eating?
According to what Jesus taught about things like adultery and murder, which gave insight into how God looks at things, I would say yes.

Do you have a list of laws from this future reign of Christ?
Why would you ask an Amil this question when you know I don't even believe in a future reign of Christ like you do? Imagine me asking you a question that didn't even apply to what you believe. What would you think about that?

You are speculating they hated the camp of the saints.
LOL. So, they are going up to surround the camp of the saints because they want to sing songs with them and play games with them? Is that what you think? LOL. Seriously, tell me what you think their intentions are if they don't have bad intentions? I'd love to see your thoughts on that.
 

rwb

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Where does it say the redeemed in incorruptible bodies marry and procreate in the age to come?
Nowhere, of course. Jesus very specifically said there will be no marriage in the age to come (Luke 20:34-36). Where does this guy get his beliefs from? I think it's possible that he doesn't interpret even one single verse in all of scripture correctly. I just don't get it.

Millennialists don't believe Christ when He says believers shall NEVER die! If they could believe the words of Christ, they would understand that physical death does not mean altogether without life for those who die in Christ, in faith. But in death to become like the angels in heaven, spirit beings, not given in marriage is to be spiritually alive in heaven after physical death. If millennialists believed that being in Christ is to possess eternal spiritual life even though our body dies, they would realize the living souls John sees in heaven after being martyred for their faith are not physically resurrected living souls, but spiritual living souls in heaven because in life (time/a thousand years) they had partaken of the first resurrection through Christ, and therefore they can NEVER die. With this understanding millennialists could understand why Christ would say, "For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

Sadly, millennialists cannot bring themselves to believe the words of Christ: "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Matthew 22:30-32 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
 

WPM

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Millennialists don't believe Christ when He says believers shall NEVER die! If they could believe the words of Christ, they would understand that physical death does not mean altogether without life for those who die in Christ, in faith. But in death to become like the angels in heaven, spirit beings, not given in marriage is to be spiritually alive in heaven after physical death. If millennialists believed that being in Christ is to possess eternal spiritual life even though our body dies, they would realize the living souls John sees in heaven after being martyred for their faith are not physically resurrected living souls, but spiritual living souls in heaven because in life (time/a thousand years) they had partaken of the first resurrection through Christ, and therefore they can NEVER die. With this understanding millennialists could understand why Christ would say, "For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."

Sadly, millennialists cannot bring themselves to believe the words of Christ: "And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?"

Matthew 22:30-32 (KJV) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Exactly bro. Well put.
 

WPM

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That verse is about Adam's sinful fallen nature.

These people are not in Adam's dead corruptible flesh.

If Adam thought about eating from the tree, is that the same thing as actually eating?

Do you have a list of laws from this future reign of Christ?

You are speculating they hated the camp of the saints.

Where does it say the redeemed in incorruptible bodies marry and procreate in the age to come?
 

Timtofly

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What in the world are you talking about? What evidence do you have to back this up?


According to what Jesus taught about things like adultery and murder, which gave insight into how God looks at things, I would say yes.


Why would you ask an Amil this question when you know I don't even believe in a future reign of Christ like you do? Imagine me asking you a question that didn't even apply to what you believe. What would you think about that?


LOL. So, they are going up to surround the camp of the saints because they want to sing songs with them and play games with them? Is that what you think? LOL. Seriously, tell me what you think their intentions are if they don't have bad intentions? I'd love to see your thoughts on that.
Just more speculation and avoidance of Scripture.

They are consumed by fire.

After death they would be placed in the LOF.

Same place good and decent people will end up in their self righteousness.

You have yet to prove from a premil perspective all this speculation Amil have on why premil are wrong, from Scripture.

You assume it is the here and now. But there is no camp of the saints as presented in Revelation 20 in the here and now.


No one needs to travel across the earth, when their next door neighbor is a Saint.

Point out what they are doing that is against the law at the time they gather against the camp of the saints.

They were deceived by Satan is what Scripture claims. Obviously you have avoided addressing any Scripture I have mentioned. Instead you attack the poster.

The millennium is after all sin has been removed, and is a time of everlasting righteousness for all who are born. It is not the "age to come". That resurrection happened at the Cross. It is Amil who deny the OT were resurrected at the Cross.
 

Timtofly

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Where does it say the redeemed in incorruptible bodies marry and procreate in the age to come?
The millennium is not the "age to come". Where in Scripture does it claim the age to come is after the Second Coming?

Your current millennium is the age to come. You are the one claiming the 70 weeks were over in the first century, no? What is this age to come for you if not after the 70 weeks?

Did people stop procreating in the first century?
 

WPM

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The millennium is not the "age to come". Where in Scripture does it claim the age to come is after the Second Coming?

Your current millennium is the age to come. You are the one claiming the 70 weeks were over in the first century, no? What is this age to come for you if not after the 70 weeks?

Did people stop procreating in the first century?

I agree, the millennium is not the "age to come." The NHNE are the "age to come." This arrives at the second coming when Jesus obliterates all rebellion as He comes in power and glory. We are in Revelation 20 since the first resurrection of Christ.
 
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Timtofly

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I agree, the millennium is not the "age to come." The NHNE are the "age to come." This arrives at the second coming when Jesus obliterates all rebellion as He comes in power and glory. We are in Revelation 20 since the first resurrection of Christ.
No that is the new creation, not the "age to come".

For someone who thinks those 70 weeks for Israel was over at the Cross, you sure miss the "age to come" part. Are you saying there was no change at the Cross, because obviously it was the start of the age to come, you all keep forgetting.

Obviously there was a resurrection, and no one is procreating who are enjoying that resurrection in full force.

You claim the millennium is now, that was your age to come, except you are confused so much with God's timetable you have the cart before the horse.

You have not been resurrected, because you are still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The no procreation point is for those currently enjoying Paradise.
 

WPM

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No that is the new creation, not the "age to come".

For someone who thinks those 70 weeks for Israel was over at the Cross, you sure miss the "age to come" part. Are you saying there was no change at the Cross, because obviously it was the start of the age to come, you all keep forgetting.

Obviously there was a resurrection, and no one is procreating who are enjoying that resurrection in full force.

You claim the millennium is now, that was your age to come, except you are confused so much with God's timetable you have the cart before the horse.

You have not been resurrected, because you are still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The no procreation point is for those currently enjoying Paradise.

It was the beginning to the NT era. It is also the last days. But the age to come is the NHNE. That will arrive when this age comes to an end and Jesus comes.
 

Timtofly

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It was the beginning to the NT era. It is also the last days. But the age to come is the NHNE. That will arrive when this age comes to an end and Jesus comes.
Creations are not ages. That is what the scoffers claim in 2 Peter 3. This world is just one age, and the next creation is another age.

The age to come for the resurrection without procreation was the Cross. There is no procreation currently in Paradise.

If you end the 70 weeks at the Cross, that is a new age. Those people who experience those promises are in a new age. In fact being like the angels means they are enjoying all Paradise has to offer.

Jesus never said in a few ages from now. Jesus never said when heaven and earth pass away. Jesus was talking about the last day resurrection that would happen at the Cross. The end of the age of Abraham's bosom.
 

Earburner

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Corruption will not continue forever. Thankfully, creation will be finally regenerated and freed from the curse in the future. When is that?

This earth will not be eliminated. It will be regenerated at the coming of Jesus. Multiple Scripture supports this. We see that in Romans 8:19-23, Luke 20:27-36, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and 2 Peter 3:7–13.

Christ is coming back to a perfect glorified regenerated earth to reign forever with the suitably attired glorified saints. But, it will not be sin-cursed, goat-infested, or death-blighted as Premils argue.

Acts 3:19-21

19 the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the the times of restitution
[Gr. apokatastasis or reconstitution] of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”

“The times of refreshing” and “the restitution of all things” expressly coincides with the Lord’s appearing, thus proving the all-consummating nature of that glorious event.

The sense and meaning of the word apocatastasis here is ‘a restoration of things to its first state’ (or ‘to return to its former state’).

Webster's 1828 Dictionary says, “‘Restitution’ means ‘The act of recovering a former state or posture, the putting the world in a holy and happy state’.”

In everyday language it refers to a return to the original place. For example, the return of a ship to its home port; in astronomy it meant the cyclical return of a planet to the point where it was found earlier; in medicine it meant the return of a patient to health.

Whilst the Greek word apokatastasis is only found in Acts 3:21, the root word apokathistemi is found 8 times in Scripture. We see the restorative sense of the word in the story of the man with the withered hand in Matthew 12:13, where it says, “it was restored (apokathistemi) whole, like as the other.”

Likewise, in Mark 8:25 the blind man received his sight it says, “he was restored (apokathistemi), and saw every man clearly.”

This passage is clear in its instruction: “the heaven must receive (or dechomai, or detain)” Jesus Christ “until the times of restitution of all things.”

Jesus isn’t going anywhere until the restoration of fallen creation!

2 Peter 3:7 also confirms, “the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”

The destruction of our current earth coincides with the fiery judgment of the wicked at the Lord’s return. The purpose of this current earth being destroyed by fire at the same time as the wicked is to purge this earth of every vestige of the bondage of corruption and purify it of all sin and unrighteousness. It will indeed be a perfect glorified state. The new earth is a place that is completely liberated from all unrighteousness.

After outlining the awful judgment that will fall upon fallen creation, Peter reassures the believer, Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness (2 Peter 3:13).

He's not coming back to a corrupt earth plagued by sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, disease and decay, war and terror, Satan and his devils as Premils promote.

Peter shows that whilst the day of the revelation of Christ is an awful day of woe for the wicked; it is a day of joy and blessing for the righteous.

God’s purpose is that the entire creation will be regenerated. That is, the whole universe will be freed from the curse of corruption and degeneration. His intent is to bring a whole new order when He returns that will be marked by righteousness and eternality. A new regenerated creation will welcome a freshly perfected redeemed people. We are therefore looking at universal regeneration.

1 Peter 4:4-7 says, “they (the wicked) think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.”

After telling us that “the end of all things is at hand” the Scriptures admonish us to be “sober” and “watch.” Why does it tell us to do that? Because we will be here right up until “the end of all things is at hand.”

Like Paul the Apostle, Peter piggybacks on Jesus constant admonition to watch and be ready. He instructs us to be sober and not drunk and when that day arrives.

Peter continues in verse 13 of the same passage, whilst speaking of that great final event, by encouraging the believers, saying, “rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.”

This passage therefore instructs God’s people to be “sober, and watch unto prayer” in regard to its approach, but also to anticipate it as a time when they will “be glad also with exceeding joy.”

Peter reinforces the impending nature of the general judgment and the judgment of the wicked by telling us that they “shall give account to Him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.” Christ is indeed “ready” to judge the wicked at His return.
Acts 3
[21] Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

The "restitution of all things", is in reference to only the mortal creature of man, for those who are born again of/by the Holy Spirit, whereby the Holy Spirit, the Gift and seal unto eternal life, is restored/quickened back to us, who have faith in the Lord Jesus during their lifetime.
Animals and plant life never had the opportunity for eternal life, nor were they given the hope and promise for eternal existence of anykind.

The unsaved, who have not the Spirit of Christ, if they should breathe their last breath of oxygenated air and die, they cannot and will not ever be resurrected unto eternal life. They will remain to be "none of His". John 3:18, Rom. 8:8-9, 1 John 5:12-13. Eternally dead and eternally lost.
 
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