Moses And Elijah With Jesus ???

[Inexplicable]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill and there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing, I believe it because its in the Bible, but how can this be before the resurrection?

 

[farouk]

How is it when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill, there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing.

It's in the record of Scripture, which is enough, for a start.

Also, where Romans 3 says that the righteousness of God outside the law is witnessed by the law and the prophets, it's interesting that Moses represents that part of the OT known as the law, and Elijah represents that part of the OT known as the prophets.

Peter, in 2 Peter 1.16, without doubt speaking of the Transfiguration of the Lord Jesus, could say: "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty."

 

[quietthinker]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill, there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing.

Elijah was translated, ie never saw death and Moses was resurrected ......God's prerogative.
These are also symbols of those who have died and those who are living when Jesus returns

 

[Webers_Home]

.
• Matt 17:9 . . And as they were coming down from the mountain, Jesus
commanded them, saying: Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man has
risen from the dead.

The Greek word translated "vision" is basically a spectacle which may, or
may not, be a tangible reality; e.g. Acts 16:9-10 wherein a man of
Macedonia spoke with Paul; and then there's Acts 11:5-9 wherein Peter,
while in a trance, saw a magic carpet transporting a number of unclean
animals.
_

 

[RedFan]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill and there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing

67 years on the planet, and this is the first time I've heard the notion that pre-resurrection the saints were still in their graves and "conscious of nothing." Tell me more!

 

[stephen64]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill and there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing, I believe it because its in the Bible, but how can this be before the resurrection?

I wouldn't say the saints in the grave are conscious of nothing myself. Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see His day. Would Abraham have rejoiced in that when he walked this earth or afterwards?
When Jesus died at Calvary he went and proclaimed the message to people who had previously died(1Peter3:18-20) he could only have done that if they had a certain consciousness. I don't claim to be an expert on this BTW

 

[lforrest]

Time travel.

 

[Ziggy]

Some say Jonah experienced death when he was in the belly of the whale, but God heard his prayer and had him cast out of that prison onto dry land.
Jesus went to visit the prisoners and free them while he was in death. How can you free someone who has no consciousness of being in bondage?

Interesting topic.
Hugs

 

[APAK]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill and there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing, I believe it because its in the Bible, but how can this be before the resurrection?

This is a Bible 901 question at least and I do not know for sure, however, some insights....

As @quietthinker said, concerning Moses' and Elijah's states of departure off the earth were different that anyone else recorded in scripture.

All three on this 'high place,' including Jesus, were in a transformational state, meaning they were not in a completely physical human body state nor in a completely heavenly body state. They were in a transitional realm, between the physical and the heavenly realms, as angels can appear to us. They were all in the same state that Jesus became when he was resurrected from the dead and could appear and disappear at will, going through walls and greeting his disciples as a 'different' person, and not immediately recognized.

Now Jesus eventually past into the post transitional state when he ascended completely into the heavenly realm.

Now can I see the Father transforming all three of them as angel forms in front of the chosen disciples to show them that after death and 'rest' they would eventually see Moses, Elijah and other OT saints as well as themselves in the heavenly realm of the Kingdom of God, living in immortality after they would be resurrected - as Christ also spoke these prophetic words of the Father's promise for their salvation, into the Kingdom.

afterthought...Moses and Elijah live today in this transitional state and have not entered the Kingdom yet until Christ returns.

 

[Keiw]

Elijah was translated, ie never saw death and Moses was resurrected ......God's prerogative.
These are also symbols of those who have died and those who are living when Jesus returns

Elijah was brought to another part of the earth during that chariot from heaven event. He wrote a letter to the king 10 years after that event.( 2 Chronicles 21:12-15) The heaven mentioned was our atmosphere, not Gods dwelling place.--Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavenS and the earth--3 mentions of heavens in different senses in the bible, our atmosphere, outer space and Gods dwelling place. The letter to the king proves it was our atmosphere mentioned in that event. He did not go to heaven. None entered heaven before Jesus did. John 3:13)-- some have listened to blind guides. Run from them.

 

[EloyCraft]

Elijah was translated, ie never saw death and Moses was resurrected ......God's prerogative.

Hold on quiet friend
Remember the argument for the body of Moses? Now Satan couldn't care less if Moses body had been handed over to him. That would mean that there would be no reason for him to argue. This incident only makes sense if Moses was going to be translated to immortal life in Paradise with out experiencing death. Like Elijah. Resurrection requires that death is conquered and the soul returns to the body. Also, for that to be, death would have to have no grip on Moses. We know Moses' was not born without sin. He wasn't born sinless and immortal like the first Adam. That would be what he would have to be to Resurrect.
Jesus' was born in the translated state Elijah and Moses were in. When He transfigured He let the Glory He had since conception be seen it's the light of a human soul in Glory with God. Like Adam in the Paradise that he fell from Jesus too lived in Paradise sinless and immortal. Immortal but passable like Adam and Eve, Moses and Elijah. Immortal but the body s mortality subject to the possibility of dying but with no reason for that to happen. Jesus hid His glory or He would have a body that was lit with Glory. But His Glory isn't of Power and Judgement like His second coming but the Glory of an only son full of Grace and truth. Moses and Elijah could be seen because they like Jesus were living in the same transfigured state.
I'm of the opinion that they are waiting for their opportunity to shed their blood for their Lord at the end of time. After they prophecy and witness to the Jews that that Jesus is their Lord . The Jews Will weep as for an only son. And that would be true. After three days dead in the street a voice from heaven will say " Come up here'. Then they will be resurrected in front of the people that rejoiced at their death. Moses wasn't resurrected because his body wasn't handed over to Satan and his death. God hid Moses' tomb because it would have been empty and as tradition claims become a shrine. Moses would have been mistakenly believed to have conquered death. The symbology of an empty tomb would be unavoidable.

 

[Earburner]

I wouldn't say the saints in the grave are conscious of nothing myself. Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see His day. Would Abraham have rejoiced in that when he walked this earth or afterwards?
When Jesus died at Calvary he went and proclaimed the message to people who had previously died(1Peter3:18-20) he could only have done that if they had a certain consciousness. I don't claim to be an expert on this BTW

It's all figuratively spoken of, as if they were conscious.
First and foremost, the Living Eternal Holy Spirit of God, was never permanently given to anyone under the OC, including Enoch and Elijah. No man's sin was ever able to be remissed [removed] until the Blood of Christ was shed.
However, every person who was of faith in Israel, of "the Promise to come", their names were written in a "Book of Remembrance" before God. Malachi 3:16.

In the Days of Jesus' death/resurrection and the time of Pentecost, as the Holy Spirit was freely being given to all the repentant who are living, so also was the Holy Spirit given to those OC saints, who had died in faith, and were written in the Book of Remembrance. It was those saints that Jesus descended to.
How do we know that is so?
We find them shown in Revelation 6:9-11, being
those who were "under the altar".
If you know anything about the word "altar", it is a symbol for describing a place or time of "remembrance".

 

[Scott Downey]

Explain the discrepancy in understanding, did Elijah go into heaven to stay, or did Elijah come back to earth and died like every man does (except Enoch, scripture says Enoch was taken away and did not see death, but then where did Enoch go really.

Only case I know of in scripture, but taken where? To paradise is what I think, but this was not the throne of God in heaven, Paradise was not yet in heaven with God, Paradise at that time was a place the righteous went after they died before the Resurrection of Christ, Christ alone opened the way into living in heaven with God. Christ tells the thief on the cross that day he would be with Him in Paradise, or also known as Abraham's bosom.

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Did Elijah Go To Heaven?
Chart of the kings of Judah and Israel, Elijah definitely wrote a letter to Jehoram, king of Judah.

https://www.providenceacademy.org/w...01/Chart-of-the-Kings-of-Israel-and-Judah.pdf
2 Chronicles 21 New King James Version

Jehoram Reigns in Judah
21 And Jehoshaphat rested with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the City of David. Then Jehoram his son reigned in his place. 2 He had brothers, the sons of Jehoshaphat: Azariah, Jehiel, Zechariah, Azaryahu, Michael, and Shephatiah; all these were the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel. 3 Their father gave them great gifts of silver and gold and precious things, with fortified cities in Judah; but he gave the kingdom to Jehoram, because he was the firstborn.

4 Now when Jehoram was established over the kingdom of his father, he strengthened himself and killed all his brothers with the sword, and also others of the princes of Israel.

5 Jehoram was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem. 6 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, just as the house of Ahab had done, for he had the daughter of Ahab as a wife; and he did evil in the sight of the Lord. 7 Yet the Lord would not destroy the house of David, because of the covenant that He had made with David, and since He had promised to give a lamp to him and to his sons forever.

8 In his days Edom revolted against Judah’s authority, and made a king over themselves. 9 So Jehoram went out with his officers, and all his chariots with him. And he rose by night and attacked the Edomites who had surrounded him and the captains of the chariots. 10 Thus Edom has been in revolt against Judah’s authority to this day. At that time Libnah revolted against his rule, because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers. 11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit harlotry, and led Judah astray.

12 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying,

Thus says the Lord God of your father David:

 

[GRACE ambassador]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill and there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing, I believe it because its in the Bible, but how can this be before the resurrection?

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To the Board.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace! The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

 

[farouk]

The 'eyewitness of His majesty' passage in 2 Peter 1.16 is pivotal, I think, showing how the Old Testament Scriptures attest to the majesty and glory of Christ.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

How are we to understand the transfiguration when Jesus left his deciples to go up on the hill and there appeared to him Moses and Elijah, how can this be when the resurrection hasn't yet taken place, all the saint's are still in there graves and conscious of nothing, I believe it because its in the Bible, but how can this be before the resurrection?

The Holy Spirit !
Such is not of this world ? but has to do with the Holy Spirit. that's the key of the issue that is at hand in this.

 

[Earburner]

Explain the discrepancy in understanding, did Elijah go into heaven to stay, or did Elijah come back to earth and died like every man does (except Enoch, scripture says Enoch was taken away and did not see death, but then where did Enoch go really.

Only case I know of in scripture, but taken where? To paradise is what I think, but this was not the throne of God in heaven, Paradise was not yet in heaven with God, Paradise at that time was a place the righteous went after they died before the Resurrection of Christ, Christ alone opened the way into living in heaven with God. Christ tells the thief on the cross that day he would be with Him in Paradise, or also known as Abraham's bosom.

Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Did Elijah Go To Heaven?
Chart of the kings of Judah and Israel, Elijah definitely wrote a letter to Jehoram, king of Judah.

https://www.providenceacademy.org/w...01/Chart-of-the-Kings-of-Israel-and-Judah.pdf
2 Chronicles 21 New King James Version

Jehoram Reigns in Judah
21 And Jehoshaphat rested with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the City of David. Then Jehoram his son reigned in his place. 2 He had brothers, the sons of Jehoshaphat: Azariah, Jehiel, Zechariah, Azaryahu, Michael, and Shephatiah; all these were the sons of Jehoshaphat king of Israel. 3 Their father gave them great gifts of silver and gold and precious things, with fortified cities in Judah; but he gave the kingdom to Jehoram, because he was the firstborn.

4 Now when Jehoram was established over the kingdom of his father, he strengthened himself and killed all his brothers with the sword, and also others of the princes of Israel.

5 Jehoram was thirty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned eight years in Jerusalem. 6 And he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, just as the house of Ahab had done, for he had the daughter of Ahab as a wife; and he did evil in the sight of the Lord. 7 Yet the Lord would not destroy the house of David, because of the covenant that He had made with David, and since He had promised to give a lamp to him and to his sons forever.

8 In his days Edom revolted against Judah’s authority, and made a king over themselves. 9 So Jehoram went out with his officers, and all his chariots with him. And he rose by night and attacked the Edomites who had surrounded him and the captains of the chariots. 10 Thus Edom has been in revolt against Judah’s authority to this day. At that time Libnah revolted against his rule, because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers. 11 Moreover he made high places in the mountains of Judah, and caused the inhabitants of Jerusalem to commit harlotry, and led Judah astray.

12 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying,

Thus says the Lord God of your father David:

KJV Hebrews 11[5] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

At that time, what was Enoch's situation, that God had to translate him?
1. Was he dying, and God translated him into paradise, as you say?
2. Was someone about to kill him, and therefore God translated [transported] him to another location, far from the threat of premature death, but now was out of reach or contact with familiar people?
Unfortunately, as far as I know, there is no other testimony, that attests to the actual situation or claim about Enoch.

I perceive your understanding about "paradise" to be equally described by the "book of remembrance", of those who had died in faith, being declared righteous by God, but were still in need of the Gift of God's Holy Spirit, in order to enter into the KoG.

Enoch and Elijah would surely be among those "under the altar" (paradise), but now they have been given the Holy Spirit, and are asleep in Jesus.

Edit: what we have to reckon with is that in both cases of Enoch and Elijah, we have only one witness in each of the accounts. Since that is the case, the events of their translations cannot be established as factual truth, in how we are being led to understand it to believe it.
Matt.18[16] But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I always wondered how they knew it was Moses and Elijah? They didn't know what they looked like

 

[Webers_Home]

.

I always wondered how they knew it was Moses and Elijah? They didn't know
what they looked like

Jesus and the other two guys were discussing his impending demise (Luke
9:30-31). I strongly suspect that Peter and his friends overheard their
conversation.
_

 

[Wrangler]

I always wondered how they knew it was Moses and Elijah? They didn't know what they looked like

This and angels comforting Jesus in the desert are 2 things that undermine the claim that Jesus was 100% man. Hardly ever do prophets and angels appear when I pray. YMMV.