Moses Law : is NOT made for Christians #3

[faithhopecharity]

God does not save us so that we can go back to OT Statues and Moses Law, as the Legalism Heretics teach.

In fact the born again are delivered from the OLD COVENANT by way of "imputed righteousness" thanks to the NT "Blood Atonment" that is "The Cross of Christ".... which recreates the born again through new birth as "the righteousness of God in Christ". .... "A new creation In Christ".

ez 36 is a prophecy of the new covenant

 

[faithhopecharity]

The only "condition" that is placed before a sinner so that they can go to heaven, is that they "believe on Jesus whom God sent".

according to your tradition not scripture

mt 7:7 ask and you shall receive

mt 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

mt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Mt 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

mk 10:30
...in the world to come eternal life.

John 4:36
...gathereth fruit unto life eternal:

John 10:28
And I give unto them eternal life...

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

thks

 

[Behold]

ez 36 is a prophecy of the new covenant

And So is..""""And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.""

(that is found in Gen 3).

 

[Behold]

according to your tradition not scripture

According to the fact that you post verses but can't explain them, you are discovered to be one more religious pretender. @faithhopecharity

See, You post multiple verses over and over, that you can't explain.
And that is what all religious heretics do......they come to the forum and they post verses, taken from a online concordance.
This is 100% typical of your type to do this to try to falsely prove that you can teach the Bible.
But in fact, you can't.
You're a pretender.

Now, go ahead and state what "traditions" im teaching that you disagree with.......as you just accused me of it. @faithhopecharity

Name one or 2..

 

[Gray_Joy]

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd be dangerous to the Devil, but because you dont, you are just one more religious tool whom He uses, according to his will, (as Paul teaches) .... while you dont realize it. @Gray_Joy .

Now, Take it from Jesus, who said it was "Moses Law".

Jesus said......""Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law (of moses)."

Also, if you own a bible @Gray_Joy , then notice that the Law is found in the 5 books of : Moses., and that is the OLD COVENANT.

So, here is an update for you and for the other religious fanatics who are chasing "commandments and law"..... = "Moses" law" is NOT God's Law.

Also... = Christians under the New Covenant are not to chase "the law of Moses".........they are to Embrace the Grace of God., that is their Salvation.

Now.....What is God's Law?

A.) Its "The Righteousness of Faith".......its "Grace through Faith". Its.."According to God's MERCY He saved us, without works of (moses) law".

Also.......an UNbeliever is still "under (Moses) law"..... and there are 613 of them, and of course the 10 commandement are just a part.

= Whereas the CHRISTiand is "not under (moses) law< but under GOD's GRACE".

See that GRACE of God?
That is how you may define "God's Law" and be correct. @Gray_Joy

I refuse to entertain the Devil.
Which is why I have arrived at the decision not to enable dark spirits who speak from the pit.

For the faithful of ,in,Gods church here,
The Law of God was given to Moshe,Moses,by God. It is not the invention of Moses in the name of God.

That is Bible. And that is indeed dangerous to the evil that seeks to contradict that fact.

 

[Angelina]

Reader,

Moses initially gave the Jews both the 613 Laws and the 10 Commandments.
So, when we think of : "LAW"..... = under the Old Covenant, we are dealing with Moses Law, which includes the 10 Commandments.

But then there is this....

The total (Pauline Doctrine) understanding of "law"... is not just Moses Law including the 10.......but its anything that you believe you have to do, to be saved and stay saved, other then Trust in Christ alone.
So, any of that then becomes : a LAW unto you........

This means that the person has a list of : "if i do this, i stay saved, and if i ever do that, then Im no longer saved".

So we see that this person has shifted from Simple Faith in Christ that God has alreacy accepted to SAVE them, and now they are become a "here is what i have to DO, as my Salvation"... = Legalist.

See that list they have?
That List is denying that Jesus is The Savior, because that self saving List belongs to someone who does not understand that Salvation is not what we do to get it.... or what we do to try to Keep it.

Salvation is : JESUS.
JESUS is Salvation.

And a person says...>>"but shouldnt we try to be good and keep the 10 commandments and try to be like Christ and love our Neighbor"?

= Of course, as that is your DISCIPLESHIP..... but its not your SALVATION

Our Salvaiton is : JESUS
JESUS is Salvation.

We dont keep ourselves saved, exactly as we didnt save ourselves to begin with.........as GOD is the giver of salvation and the keeper of the redeemed.

Philipians 1:6

Reader,
.....Jesus alone is all we are to TRUST as our REAL FAITH....not Moses Law or Water Baptism, or any type of trying to be good enough to deserve Salvation., as all that is LEGALISM. (Self Saving)...= broken Faith.

God's Salvation is : John 14:6......Its JESUS Himself.....HE is Salvation.....and the moment that we get away from this FAITH in Christ and turn to that LIST of "do's and donts'......and that can include keeping commandments, or joining a specific church, or trying to confess sin, to stay saved... or water baptism...
See all that.. self EFFORT ?
That is the person replacing God's Son as their only Salvation with their idea of...."how to stay saved or how to be saved"., = and that is putting yourself "under the Law".

The remedy ???

"Jesus is the END OF THE LAW for Righteousness"... Paul teaches.

"Jesus is the ONE TIME.. ETERNAL Sacrifice for SIN"... Paul teaches........which means......do not look to the Law or Moses or anything you can do to try to be saved or stay saved.....We are to only and always look to CHRIST as our eternal Salvation, because He IS our Eternal Salvation.
There is no other........and Moses would tell us the same thing, if He could.
Thats a fact.
MOSES would tell us......."""""Do not look to your self effort or my LAWS, to try to go to heaven, or to try to stay saved.
KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE SON..........as HE is your Salvation......>He is The ONLY Salvation.""""

JESUS is : Salvation.

Reader, Do you have Christ in you, ?? If so then you are SAVED for Eternity.

We are to keep the 10 Commandments, but only as a Lifestyle Boundary.........so that we dont find ourselves in a big problem down here that is caused and created by breaking the 10 Commandments.
However....We are to never try to keep commandments to try to stay saved, because if we do that, then we are trusting in the Commandments instead of fully trusting in Christ.,and that means you have no real faith in Christ......its gone, its broken faith..
And the thing about Salvation is.......partial faith in Christ and partial faith in water baptisme and partial faith in commandments and confessing sin, and trying to be good.......is Not a Faith that God accepts.

And the issue is, on a forum......is you have so many who are this one..

......"WEll, i know that Jesus STARTED my Salvation.......but now i have to go and do all this, and keep all that, and her comes Moses Law... and maybe i should get water baptized for the 3rd time, just to play it safe..."

See the one?

Thats a Heretic (Paul's Term) who does not really Trust in Christ, and yet they are TEACHING a false Gospel and a False SALVATION on a "christian forum"... which means they are selling a Gospel, and its False, and its cursed, = Galatians 1:8........ and all that comes from this is confusion and strife on the Fourm.



Listen,
... The only relevance the 10 Commandments have in the Life of a Born Again Chrisitan is they are a needful and necessary Lifestyle Boundary, that keeps us from a lot of hurt and hardship, when we live inside their guidelines.

So, noone is arguing here on my Thread, that the 10 Commandments are not important in the life of EVERYONE.
Listen, I have in my home a beautiful and large Golden Mirror Exhibit of : The 10 Commandments.......its on the Living Room Wall.......yet here i am trying to stop believers from trusting in them, to try to stay saved...
How aBout that......

Now, The argument here on my 3 Threads that are addressing the same Topic. (Moses Law and the Christian) .// is that the Heretics want you to keep the 10 Commandments so that you can try to keep yourself saved by doing it., and that is a Gospel, and its FALSE and cursed and so are they.......Galatians 1:8
This means that the Heretic is replacing JESUS's Blood of the New Testament and New Covenant with the 10 Commandments and whatever else they falsely claim is a :"must do" to Stay Saved or a must do to become Saved..

So,....That's the 2000 yr old CLASH between people all claiming to be a "christian" who understand Salvation, vs those who do not........and its can't be resolved until everyone understands that Salvation is not what you DO.....its not a situation where you do things to get it or keep it.
Salvation is JESUS on The Cross...........and if you have Him in you, ("Christ in you THE Hope of Glory).... then you have God's Grace, who is Jesus our Eternal Salvation.

Also...

Paul teaches in Romans 3 that the entire world becomes guilty before God, because Moses Law and 10 Commandments reveal us all to be sinners.
We then turn to Christ by FAITH for Help........for forgiveness for Salvation........and God delivers it as "The GIFT of Salvaiton".

"Grace throught Faith"
"Justification BY Faith"

And once we are born again, then we exit here, forever. = The born again is """ Not Under The Law, but UNDER (God;s) Grace"" ..

Heretics do not agree and they ruin Christian forum with their confusion they bring.........and that confusion is that they want you to be like them.........OBSESSED with Sin and with LAW and Self Effort, as that is THEIR Salvation they TEACH, even tho they pretend they trust in Christ.
And God know they are pretending.
They absolutely do not Trust in Christ alone to get them to Heaven, and that is why they always OBSESS on Moses Law and commandments and obedience and sin, and water baptism.

I agree that salvation is by grace through faith and not by our own works. No one can earn forgiveness, justification, or eternal life through keeping commandments, being baptized, confessing sins, or performing religious duties. Christ alone is the basis of our salvation, and His finished work on the cross is completely sufficient (Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

Where I would offer some caution is that Scripture does not present obedience as something entirely separate from saving faith. While obedience does not save us, genuine faith produces obedience as its fruit.

Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). He also said, "Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

Likewise, James writes that faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James is not teaching salvation by works, but he is teaching that living faith manifests itself in a transformed life. The issue is not whether works save, but whether saving faith remains alone.

The apostles consistently taught both truths together:

We are justified by faith apart from works of the law (Romans 3:28).
We are created in Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10).
God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and live godly lives (Titus 2:11-12).
We are saved through faith, yet faith works through love (Galatians 5:6).

Therefore, I believe we should be careful not to place obedience in opposition to faith. Obedience is not the root of salvation, but it is one of its fruits. The believer does not obey to earn God's acceptance but because he has already received God's acceptance in Christ.

I also believe we should be cautious about labeling all Christians who emphasize holiness, repentance, or perseverance as heretics. Scripture calls believers to contend for the faith, but it also calls us to speak the truth in love and to maintain unity where there is agreement on the gospel.

The biblical balance seems to be this: Christ alone saves, yet the Christ who saves also transforms. We trust in Christ alone for our justification, and because we trust Him, we seek to follow Him in obedience.

 

[Behold]

Where I would offer some caution is that Scripture does not present obedience as something entirely separate from saving faith.

The only obedience that God requries of a SINNER to save them and keep them saved, is this....

"That you believe on Jesus, whom God sent".

Any other Obedience is connected to your discipleship, not your Salvation.

Reader......see if. you can catch this ....

= Discipleship is not Salvation.
= Discipleship is what you do after you are already SAVED., and you can do it , and not be saved at all.
A lot of people went to Hell today and found that out the hard way.

A.) Salvation is what Jesus finished on The Cross 2000 yrs ago, and is given to you as "the Gift of Salvation" if you will give God your faith in Christ".

See it?

Now listen.,
The faith issue that a lot of Christian have, is that they do not understand that Salvation is not their Discipleship.
So, they try to combine The Cross of Christ with "and now my obedience is also required to be saved and stay saved".

See that?

This is what is referred to as "adding to the finished work of Jesus"......your Obedience, in the form of BEHAVIOR.
And to teach that is to deny The Cross, as now you are placing yourself, and your deeds, as equal to what Jesus has accomplished by His Shed Blood and Death, and God knows you will never be able to equal it, or even approach it with your "obedience" striving.
So, Never teach this, as this offends The Cross, and insults God's Grace.
You dont want to be that one, at all, and you certainly dont want to be committing that Cross denying Heresy, on a Public so called "christian" Forum, even if you are safe from being banned if you do it.

 

[Angelina]

The only obedience that God requries of a SINNER to save them and keep them saved, is this....

"That you believe on Jesus, whom God sent".

Any other Obedience is connected to your discipleship, not your Salvation.

Reader......see if. you can catch this ....

= Discipleship is not Salvation.
= Discipleship is what you do.

@Behold. I agree we are not saved by works, and no one adds anything to the finished work of Christ (Eph 2:8–9).


But Scripture doesn’t reduce “obedience” to a single act of belief detached from repentance and submission to Christ. Faith is consistently described as obedient faith (Rom 1:5), not mere mental agreement.


Jesus is “the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Heb 5:9), and John 3:36 links belief and obedience rather than separating them.


So I don’t see a biblical basis for splitting “salvation” and “obedience” into two unrelated categories. Saving faith receives Christ fully, not only as Savior but also as Lord.


Works don’t save, but the faith that saves is never alone or passive.

 

[Behold]

@Behold. I agree we are not saved by works, and no one adds anything to the finished work of Christ (Eph 2:8–9).

Our faith is counted by God as Christ's Righteousness, imputed to us.

But Scripture doesn’t reduce “obedience” to a single act of belief detached from repentance and submission to Christ.

Salvation is a ""Gift""" from God, that requires believing faith to receive it, = our "faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness".....imputed to us.

Sinners, were not being OBEDIENT to God all their lifelong sinning life, and then one day in one MOMENT, God saved them.. "through faith" "while we were YET SINNERS" and only because we Trusted in Christ.

Faith is consistently described as obedient faith (Rom 1:5), not mere mental agreement.

Faith is Christ real or its not.
God looks inside a sinners heart and when He sees genuine faith, He accepts it and saves them, eternally.

The obedience that God will accept to accept you and keep you, is......>"Believe on Jesus Whom God Sent".

So, if you have been obedient to that directive, once in your life, then God has given you HIS "Gift of Salvation".

esus is “the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Heb 5:9)

Receivng the gift of eternal life has one condition.........its : "all who believe in me, i give unto you eternal life and you shall never perish".(never go to hell). Jesus promises.
So, we see that the OBEDIENCE is simply FAITH in Christ....given to God., once.
That's it, as that is what causes God to give us HIS : "The GIFT of Salvation".
God sees our Faith in Christ, that is in our HEART where He can see it, and He accepts it and applies the Blood Atonement to us, which forgiives our sin, and then God gives us the New Birth, and we become a Born again "new Creation in Christ".. as "one with God".
And God began this this for us, "while we were YET SINNERS"... and He completes it for us and will be faithful to complete it.

Philippians 1:6

Now....also Notice this verse..."But to those that worketh not, but believeth on GOD who = justifies the ungodly, their = faith is counted (by God) for righteousness.".

So the only obedience we find regarding becoming a born again Christian, is "our FAITH is counted by God"

Now, after you are saved, then your discipleship is now begun, and that is when you "present your body as a living sacrifice to God"., and that is when you "deny yourself, and carry your Cross".....as that is your DISCIPLESHIP that begins after you are saved "while we were yet sinners".

, and John 3:36 links belief and obedience rather than separating them.

Your verse says that if you believe you are saved and if you dont you are damned.
This verse is connected to John 3:36
So, your verse is describing the eternal effect and end result of saving faith, vs, being a Christ rejector.

So I don’t see a biblical basis for splitting “salvation” and “obedience” into two unrelated categories.

If by "obedience" you mean.....>"Faith in Christ"......then that is correct.

The "Split" is between ..........Discipleship and Salvation, as one of those is what you do, and the other is What God provides to a believer as a GIFT.

Saving faith receives Christ fully, not only as Savior but also as Lord.

And there is a heresy that teaches that unless you make Jesus Lord of your Life, God wont save you, and you are not really saved.
So, this is the error of "LordShip Salvation" that wild eyed heretics like John MacAuther taught to his deceived followers.

Now, let me show you this...
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord"......and that means the DEVIL and his Angels, and every unbeliever, and of course all Christians.

Here is a update for you reader.........Jesus is LORD, even if you dont believe it, and dont want it.

And here is another update...
Most of the people who use forums, own a TV, and watch Cable... and 99% of them have watched some Cable program that has sex and more of it, in the show.......yet they watched it.
"Game of Thrones" comes to mind.........as most of the world seemed to be watching that one, and that means a lot of Christians were tuned in for 7 yrs.....
So, were they obeying Jesus as """Lord""", when they were watching that sensuality and sexuality?

No., not quite.

So, be careful of people who talk to you about "Jesus is Lord", and "Lordship Salvation" who really dont understand what that actually means.

Works don’t save, but the faith that saves is never alone or passive.

What works were you doing for God, on the day that God saved you. ???

Can we see your list of works @Angelina ?

 

[Soyeong]

A small correction if I may.

It is not Moses's law.

It is God's law.

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God spoke to him without departing from it, which is why the Law of Moses is called the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23.

I suggest discernment when a teaching comes along that intends to dismiss the importance of righteous guidelines.
God's law does not expire.

Agreed.

Jesus said the laws of God and the wisdom from the prophets are contained in two laws grounded in one foundation by God. Love.

Because the ten commandments reflected two kinds of love. Love of God. And love of ourselves and others.

Those still apply.
You cannot steal. Murder.Lie.Commit adultery. Worship other deities. Disrespect your parents. And so forth.

Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the rest of the 611 commandments. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit murder, theft, idolatry, and adultery, but we also won't commit kidnapping, rape, and favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of Moses.

Jesus fulfilled the laws of God perfectly. Meaning he kept them perfectly. He was not a a sinner.

The ritual laws of the Mitzvot,613 laws of God, do not apply to the faithful sealed by and in Christ today.

Chris set a sinless example for us to follow of how to fulfill the Law of Moses and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6).

Because Jesus was the unblemished lamb that was slain for the sins in the world. His blood covers all debts and trespasses by the faithful who were in and of the world first.

But,once we find our way to him,and are redeemed from our dina,we are condemned by our sins no more.
That's why we don't sacrifice living things fo their blood pays for our transgressions today.

The civil parts of the Mitzvot,laws,apply to Jews only and are not relevant to Christians.

It is by the Law of Moses that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so the position that we should sin no more is the position that we should obey the Law of Moses, which is the opposite of saying that parts of it are for Jews only and not relevant for Christians. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and following what Christ taught is relevant for Christians.

Read the ten commandments,God's moral and religious laws. They commanded respect for God and one another. And still do.

People in Christ should know,if you meet someone who tells you God's laws are no longer valid, I suggest you consider you are encountering the lost ones who need God. Pray for them but don't believe them.

The Bible never refers to the Ten Commandments as being the moral or and never states that God's other laws are not moral laws. It don't see how you can switch between saying that that some of God's laws are not relevant for Christians to speaking against those who say that God's laws are no longer valid.

Believe God. Jesus said his laws stand until all is accomplished.
His sacrifice on the cross fulfilled the sacrificial,ritual,laws of God.
But it isn't over yet.

Not all in God's plan is yet accomplished.

God Bless.

Jesus said that man shall not live by word alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4).

 

[Behold]

Everything in the Law of Moses is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor,

Why do you keep telling that Lie? @Soyeong ??

In fact some of Moses Law has nothing to do with Love or God.....nothing.
you dont know this because you've never read all of Moses' 613 laws.
Have you ever actually read a NT?
Do you actually own a bible..??
If you need one, then PM me with your address and i'll send you a really good one.
np.
Ive given away Bibles all over this world.

Now listen up.. @Soyeong

The #17 Moses law, is dealing with circumcision.....and the #21 is dealing with putting a JEWISH Mezuzah on your doorpost.
And you dont have one on yours, so you are not keeping Moses law, you foolish religious child clown.

So, why dont you run along with your Moses Law obsession , and stop annoying the adults here on the forum, who want to learn some bible.
You are exaclty nothing but in their way @Soyeong

 

[Angelina]

Our faith is counted by God as Christ's Righteousness, imputed to us.





Salvation is a ""Gift""" from God, that requires believing faith to receive it, = our "faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness".....imputed to us.

Sinners, were not being OBEDIENT to God all their lifelong sinning life, and then one day in one MOMENT, God saved them.. "through faith" "while we were YET SINNERS" and only because we Trusted in Christ.



Faith is Christ real or its not.
God looks inside a sinners heart and when He sees genuine faith, He accepts it and saves them, eternally.

The obedience that God will accept to accept you and keep you, is......>"Believe on Jesus Whom God Sent".

So, if you have been obedient to that directive, once in your life, then God has given you HIS "Gift of Salvation".




Receivng the gift of eternal life has one condition.........its : "all who believe in me, i give unto you eternal life and you shall never perish".(never go to hell). Jesus promises.
So, we see that the OBEDIENCE is simply FAITH in Christ....given to God., once.
That's it, as that is what causes God to give us HIS : "The GIFT of Salvation".
God sees our Faith in Christ, that is in our HEART where He can see it, and He accepts it and applies the Blood Atonement to us, which forgiives our sin, and then God gives us the New Birth, and we become a Born again "new Creation in Christ".. as "one with God".
And God began this this for us, "while we were YET SINNERS"... and He completes it for us and will be faithful to complete it.

Philippians 1:6

Now....also Notice this verse..."But to those that worketh not, but believeth on GOD who = justifies the ungodly, their = faith is counted (by God) for righteousness.".

So the only obedience we find regarding becoming a born again Christian, is "our FAITH is counted by God"

Now, after you are saved, then your discipleship is now begun, and that is when you "present your body as a living sacrifice to God"., and that is when you "deny yourself, and carry your Cross".....as that is your DISCIPLESHIP that begins after you are saved "while we were yet sinners".



Your verse says that if you believe you are saved and if you dont you are damned.
This verse is connected to John 3:36
So, your verse is describing the eternal effect and end result of saving faith, vs, being a Christ rejector.




If by "obedience" you mean.....>"Faith in Christ"......then that is correct.

The "Split" is between ..........Discipleship and Salvation, as one of those is what you do, and the other is What God provides to a believer as a GIFT.



And there is a heresy that teaches that unless you make Jesus Lord of your Life, God wont save you, and you are not really saved.
So, this is the error of "LordShip Salvation" that wild eyed heretics like John MacAuther taught to his deceived followers.

Now, let me show you this...
"Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord"......and that means the DEVIL and his Angels, and every unbeliever, and of course all Christians.

Here is a update for you reader.........Jesus is LORD, even if you dont believe it, and dont want it.

And here is another update...
Most of the people who use forums, own a TV, and watch Cable... and 99% of them have watched some Cable program that has sex and more of it, in the show.......yet they watched it.
"Game of Thrones" comes to mind.........as most of the world seemed to be watching that one, and that means a lot of Christians were tuned in for 7 yrs.....
So, were they obeying Jesus as """Lord""", when they were watching that sensuality and sexuality?

No., not quite.

So, be careful of people who talk to you about "Jesus is Lord", and "Lordship Salvation" who really dont understand what that actually means.



What works were you doing for God, on the day that God saved you. ???

Can we see your list of works @Angelina ?

@Behold, I agree with you on what is foundational: salvation is a gift, not earned, and no one is justified by works of the Law (Eph 2:8–9; Rom 4:5). That is not in dispute.

But the disagreement here is not whether salvation is by grace; it is about how the New Testament defines saving faith itself.

You are consistently defining faith as a single, isolated moment of belief and then separating everything else (repentance, obedience, submission, perseverance) into a different category called “discipleship.” But the problem is that Scripture does not make that clean separation in its definition of faith.

Romans 1:5 speaks of “obedience of faith,” not obedience after faith as something unrelated.
Hebrews 5:9 says salvation is to “all who obey Him,” which cannot be reduced to a one-time mental act without changing the meaning of “obey.”
John 3:36 places belief and disobedience in direct contrast, not as two unrelated categories.
James 2 directly rejects the idea that a “faith” with no works is real or saving.

So the real question is not whether works save; they don’t.

The question is: Are we allowed to redefine “faith” into a momentary mental assent that exists independently of repentance, surrender, and obedience to Christ, when the apostles consistently describe faith as living, active, and responsive to Him?

If your definition is correct, then these passages must all be reinterpreted away from their plain sense. But if these passages are taken at face value, then “faith” in the New Testament is never presented as something detached from obedience.

No one here is adding works to salvation. The issue is whether we are using the New Testament’s definition of faith or substituting a reduced one and then building theology around it.