My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?

[Thorwald]

What really happened that Jesus cried out these words, when He was on the cross?

The Christian ministry teaches, that God looked away for a moment when Christ took on the sins of the world, upon Himself. Do you believe this?

The book of Revelation tells us, that Christ was crucified, 'before the world was'. In other words, Christ was DESTINED to provide Himself as a sacrifice for our sins, before the world was created. God knew that the world was going to follow Satan, before He even created the world.

We, as humans, must be found worthy, 'until the end' [of our carnal lives], in order for us to become sons and daughters of God. A person cannot get any closer to 'the end', than Christ, hanging on the cross. Is it possible, that Satan was allowed to tempt Christ on the cross? This would make a lot of sense. Christ was not allowed to 'give up His life', until He passed this test. Christ could have called His Father, a 'liar', or even cursed Him. He did not. He asked His Father, for an explanation. By doing so, He passed the test.

 

[junobet]

What really happened that Jesus cried out these words, when He was on the cross?

The Christian ministry teaches, that God looked away for a moment when Christ took on the sins of the world, upon Himself. Do you believe this?

The book of Revelation tells us, that Christ was crucified, 'before the world was'. In other words, Christ was DESTINED to provide Himself as a sacrifice for our sins, before the world was created. God knew that the world was going to follow Satan, before He even created the world.

We, as humans, must be found worthy, 'until the end' [of our carnal lives], in order for us to become sons and daughters of God. A person cannot get any closer to 'the end', than Christ, hanging on the cross. Is it possible, that Satan was allowed to tempt Christ on the cross? This would make a lot of sense. Christ was not allowed to 'give up His life', until He passed this test. Christ could have called His Father, a 'liar', or even cursed Him. He did not. He asked His Father, for an explanation. By doing so, He passed the test.

I could not put it better than this:

“When God becomes man in Jesus of Nazareth, he not only enters into the finitude of man, but in his death on the cross also enters into the situation of man's godforsakenness. In Jesus he does not die the natural death of a finite being, but the violent death of the criminal on the cross, the death of complete abandonment by God. The suffering in the passion of Jesus is abandonment, rejection by God, his Father. God does not become a religion, so that man participates in him by corresponding religious thoughts and feelings. God does not become a law, so that man participates in him through obedience to a law. God does not become an ideal, so that man achieves community with him through constant striving. He humbles himself and takes upon himself the eternal death of the godless and the godforsaken, so that all the godless and the godforsaken can experience communion with him.”

― Jürgen Moltmann, The Crucified God: The Cross of Christ as the Foundation and Criticism of Christian Theology

 

[Thorwald]

I could not put it better than this:

“When God becomes man in Jesus of Nazareth, he not only enters into the finitude of man, but in his death on the cross also enters into the situation of man's godforsakenness. In Jesus he does not die the natural death of a finite being, but the violent death of the criminal on the cross, the death of complete abandonment by God. The suffering in the passion of Jesus is abandonment, rejection by God, his Father. God does not become a religion, so that man participates in him by corresponding religious thoughts and feelings. God does not become a law, so that man participates in him through obedience to a law. God does not become an ideal, so that man achieves community with him through constant striving. He humbles himself and takes upon himself the eternal death of the godless and the godforsaken, so that all the godless and the godforsaken can experience communion with him.”
― Jürgen Moltmann, The Crucified God: The Cross of Christ as the Foundation and Criticism of Christian Theology

Christ told His disciples, that He was looking forward to returning to the glory He had, "before the world was" [Lord of Hosts]. The taking on of flesh by The Lord of Hosts, was to provide Himself [as Son of Man], as an unblemished LAMB, forever ending the need for further sacrifice of actual lambs. However, Jesus was given a commandment by God, that He could give up His carnal life, and take it back again. This commandment is not reversible, nor can it be overridden. It still stood. The only part missing, is, "When?" Jesus believed His 'job' was done. However, I believe that to face what we all face [found worthy until the end], Jesus had to pass this test, likewise. There were no 'shortcuts'. This is where the problem is, with ASSUMING anything. Jesus would have experienced doubt, anxiety, fear, and so on. He knew that if He remained on the cross for much longer, His legs would be broken, as was the custom at the time. This is why I lean towards the 'testing' theory. Remember, Jesus had a 'get out of jail card', that the rest of us, do not have...God's commandment that He could give up His life and take it back, again. Just a thought.

 

[Dan57]

He was quoting Psalm 22...

 

[Thorwald]

He was quoting Psalm 22...

And your point is????

 

[brakelite]

Jesus of necessity had to suffer the precise same sentence upon Himself man would in the end suffer if he rejects the propitiation made for him. If Jesus did not suffer the exact same punishment due rejection of God's laws, (sin), then the full redemption price has not been paid, and we are not saved. Part of the price Jesus paid was to face death with no hope. Yes, He at all times trusted His Father to be wholly just and perfect, but with the full weight of the world's sins upon His shoulders, Jesus could not see through the tomb to any future hope. The death He suffered was the second death due sinners...eternal death with no hope...but His Father was faithful, and because of Christ's faithfulness and own personal righteousness He was raised from the dead...the innocent Lamb to rule with His Father forever. Jesus may have felt the absence of His Father, but the Father would have never left His side.

 

[Webers_Home]

-

Jesus of necessity had to suffer the precise same sentence upon Himself
man would in the end suffer.

If what you say were true, then Jesus would still be dead.

Part of the price Jesus paid was to face death with no hope. Yes, He at all
times trusted His Father to be wholly just and perfect, but with the full
weight of the world's sins upon His shoulders, Jesus could not see through
the tomb to any future hope.

According to Ps 16:8-10, Acts 2:25-31, Matt 12:40, Matt 17:22-23, Mark
9:31, Luke 9:22, and John 2:19-22, Christ did not die without hope. He fully
expected to recover.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

[junobet]

-

If what you say were true, then Jesus would still be dead.


According to Ps 16:8-10, Acts 2:25-31, Matt 12:40, Matt 17:22-23, Mark
9:31, Luke 9:22, and John 2:19-22, Christ did not die without hope. He fully
expected to recover.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Well, as I see it the four gospels all give witness of the same event, but each evangelist has his own perspective, focus and interpretation. All are equally valid and the fact that the Canon includes 4 gospels rather than just one goes to show that it is ok for Christians to have different viewpoints.

 

[StanJ]

Well, as I see it the four gospels all give witness of the same event, but each evangelist has his own perspective, focus and interpretation. All are equally valid and the fact that the Canon includes 4 gospels rather than just one goes to show that it is ok for Christians to have different viewpoints.

In English, a view-point and a perspective are not the same thing. The synoptic gospels are one perspective and the Gospel of John is another prospective.

 

[brakelite]

-

If what you say were true, then Jesus would still be dead.


According to Ps 16:8-10, Acts 2:25-31, Matt 12:40, Matt 17:22-23, Mark
9:31, Luke 9:22, and John 2:19-22, Christ did not die without hope. He fully
expected to recover.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

So just as I suspected, there are some among the church, you included, who believe Christ did not pay the full price of our redemption, therefore someone else has to. I presume us, by our own works, right? So heaven becomes a reward rather than a gift...and your gospel a counterfeit.

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus paid was to face death with no hope

Actually that is a lie, His hope was in His fathers promise just as our Hope is in what he achived through what He did, which is Gods promise to all men.

Mat_26:32 But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.

See He already knew the promise made to Him.

 

[0bed]

And your point is????

When Jesus quoted Psalm 22 from the cross he was doing what he always did when he preached which was to quote scripture and in this case he was speaking of himself in fulfilment of prophesy. He never shouted, cried out or raised his voice in the street but even though he was a bruised reed, he did not break, neither was he snuffed out. He did not falter, neither was he discouraged and neither will he be discouraged until he establishes justice on earth and then there will be great rejoicing.

1 "Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.
2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.
3 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.

 

[junobet]

When Jesus quoted Psalm 22 from the cross he was doing what he always did when he preached which was to quote scripture and in this case he was speaking of himself in fulfilment of prophesy. He never shouted, cried out or raised his voice in the street but even though he was a bruised reed, he did not break, neither was he snuffed out. He did not falter, neither was he discouraged and neither will he be discouraged until he establishes justice on earth and then there will be great rejoicing.

1 "Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations.
2 He will not shout or cry out,
or raise his voice in the streets.
3 A bruised reed he will not break,
and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out.
In faithfulness he will bring forth justice;
4 he will not falter or be discouraged
till he establishes justice on earth.

True, unlike the synoptic Gospels that depict Jesus as being in anguish in the Garden of Gethsemane, John’s description of that scene has Jesus fully composed and in control.
But I don’t think the Gospel of John cites Psalm 22 in a sterile way just to tick another box how Jesus’ crucifixion fulfilled prophecy. By quoting it John also tells us how Jesus felt during the crucifixion: ending up in hope and great glory “he has done it” (Psalm 22:31; comp. John 19:30) this Psalm starts off with deepest despair, fear and pain – pointing us at the intensity of Jesus’ suffering:
​
(…)
“But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say,
“let the Lord rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”
(…)
I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.
16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.”
(…)

When faced with this world’s unspeakable human suffering my only comfort lies in the belief that on the cross God entered into it: He suffers with those who suffer and in the resurrection gives us hope for the justice and reconciliation Psalm 22 promises from verse 22 onwards.

 

[ScaliaFan]

What really happened that Jesus cried out these words, when He was on the cross?

The Christian ministry teaches, that God looked away for a moment when Christ took on the sins of the world, upon Himself. Do you believe this?

The book of Revelation tells us, that Christ was crucified, 'before the world was'. In other words, Christ was DESTINED to provide Himself as a sacrifice for our sins, before the world was created. God knew that the world was going to follow Satan, before He even created the world.

I dnt get this. I have never read anything remotely like that (last part) in Revelation

Crucifixion was called for b/c Adam and Eve sinned... which obviously came after the world was made

you have a wrong version of the Bible

 

[FHII]

I dnt get this. I have never read anything remotely like that (last part) in Revelation

Crucifixion was called for b/c Adam and Eve sinned... which obviously came after the world was made

you have a wrong version of the Bible

The is only one version of the Bible.... And yea.... Its in there.

 

[mjrhealth]

The is only one version of the Bible.... And yea.... Its in there.

funny i have to KJS and they are both different never mind teh NIV,NASV and goodness knows what other which are " copyrightd.

 

[Thorwald]

funny i have to KJS and they are both different never mind teh NIV,NASV and goodness knows what other which are " copyrightd.

We all have to be careful in choosing the correct version of the Bible. The [so-called] authorized version, which has been updated since its beginning in the 1600's, is the one I use. Kings are ANOINTED by God, and the BIBLE was created originally by the decree of King James. Who 'anointed' the authors of the other 'bibles'? Remember, that God, Himself, called those who received The Word from Him, 'gods'. The other bibles are based on vanity...assumed 'wisdom' through academic studies.