New Views on the Rapture

[Duckybill]

There will be TWO spiritual WEDDINGS, the first one will be fake, the other one will be True:

1st Wedding - the deceived virgins to the false messiah who comes FIRST
2nd Wedding - the faithful virgins who wait for Christ when He comes to destroy the fake

The fake wedding, or false spiritual marriage, is what the false messiah who comes first is going to do. That's what the tribulation time is for when the fake will setup an idol abomination for all to bow in worship to. That's why per the end of Luke 17 the first ones 'taken' will be as dead 'carcases' where the eagles (vultures) are gathered together.

True Christians are not going to fall for a false messiah. I can see how those who deny Jesus/God and those who believe in a sinful Jesus will fall for it. Not true Christians, no matter what the timing of their 'rapture' belief.

It's ALL ABOUT KNOWING THE TRUE TIMING OF CHRIST'S RETURN.

True timing? We can know the season, but not the day nor hour. We are either ready or not. Tis the season for certain.

So what doctrine of men serves as a prep for the deceived to be taken in the FIRST wedding, which will be a false wedding to the false messiah, the fake husband, the "another Jesus" Paul mentioned in 2 Cor.11? I'm not making up this spiritual 'virgin' analogy, our Lord Jesus and His Apostles gave several examples of it.

How do you think our Lord Jesus will feel when He does return, and finds many of His betrothed virgins have already married to a false one in His Place? That's why He will say to the five foolish virgins, that He never knew them, and closes the door on them (Matt.25).

This is why the pre-trib doctrines are so dangerous to one's soul, because it wrongly teaches being gathered just PRIOR to the start of the great tribulation, which is actually the time when the fake marriage to a false messiah will begin.

I still don't see how our salvation is linked to a 'rapture' doctrine. Jesus us either our Lord/God/Savior or He isn't.

 

[rockytopva]

I believe...

Rapture... We will trade our terrestrial bodies in for a celestial one.
Tribulation.... We will be in heaven during the seven year tribulation
2nd Return... We will return to the earth a second time... I imaging we will come back looking like the British Household Calvary!

Revelation 19:11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:6

 

[rockytopva]

Our great hope...

1 John 3:1,2,3

[sup]1[/sup]Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

[sup]2[/sup]Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

[sup]3[/sup]And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.


Notice a few key words...


Love of the Father... Remember God is Love!

Sons of God... That ought to be an honorable title!

Like Jesus... If you truly know Jesus you will also consider it a privilege to be like him!

Appearing.... We ought to love Christ's appearing! 2 Timothy 4:8 Titus 2:13

Hope... We need the hope of Jesus's soon return!

Purity... That hope ought make us pure!


It is absolutely imperative that our teachings of Revelation build up a hope and a purity in the readers hearts!

In which.... If I redo my video on the church ages... I must sew these things in the video in hopes of building hope and purity!

 

[revturmoil]

Rockytopva said,

There are indeed two comings!

First coming... In the skies

Second coming... With the triumphant one on the white horse.

The term "Day of the Lord" has been changed by pretribulationist so that it doesn't contradict their doctrine. They've fabricated a changed in the timing of the Day of the Lord from the end of the tribulation to the beginning of it. So in their fabrications they have turned the Day of the Lord into the entire tribulation period of 7 years. They had to do this because the 'parousia' (coming) and the 'harpazo' (Caught up), and the Day of the Lord are all mentioned together, so the only way for them to avoid a contradiction was to change the timing and meaning of the Day of the Lord.

15 　For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 　For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 　Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 　Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 　For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.of chapter 5.

In the above verses we have the coming (parousia) Verse 15. We have the "harpazo" or being caught up in verse 17. And the day of the Lord in verse 1.

If the second coming and the rapture were two seperate events, why are they all mentioned together in the same passage?

 

[veteran]

True Christians are not going to fall for a false messiah. I can see how those who deny Jesus/God and those who believe in a sinful Jesus will fall for it. Not true Christians, no matter what the timing of their 'rapture' belief.

Right, "True Christians" will not fall to the pseudo-Christ. They will remain faithful and still standing when Christ Jesus does return to gather them. It's because God 'seals' the true Christian with His seal in their forehead, so they cannot be deceived (the five months stinging of Rev.9). God's sealing is especially for the purpose of Christ's Church going through the tribulation, in order to make a 'stand' for Him.

You're wrong that the falling away won't include deceived Christians along with the deceived who deny Christ. And you're wrong in thinking the timing of Christ's return has nothing to do with their deception. It has EVERYTHING to do with it. That's specifically why Apostle Paul gave the 2 Thess.2 Message about the 'timing' of Christ's return and gathering to the Thessalonians again. The first time marker of Christ's return and the gathering which Paul gave them is in 1 Thess.5.

True timing? We can know the season, but not the day nor hour. We are either ready or not. Tis the season for certain.

To know the times and the seasons Paul spoke of means being aware of the signs our Lord gave to watch for. He put them in His Word. His Book of Revelation was especially for giving us more about those signs, so we'd know.

By 'knowing' and watching the signs, is HOW we become ready in order to stay... faithful to Him and not be deceived. Someone that just says they are ready while disregarding the signs He gave is fooling their self and already deceived.

I still don't see how our salvation is linked to a 'rapture' doctrine. Jesus us either our Lord/God/Savior or He isn't.

I really don't see how you could not understand this. The first messiah coming will be the pseudo-Christ (i.e., the Antichrist). Christ's Church will be here on earth when that pseudo-Christ shows up working great wonders and miracles in the sight of men. For deceived brethren, they will think that pseudo-Christ actually is our Lord Jesus. They will be fooled, the main reason being because of how they listened to men's doctrines instead of paying attention to our Lord in His Word. Apostle Paul linked that idea to their not having received "the love of the truth." (2 Thess.2:10-11).

 

[Duckybill]

You're wrong that the falling away won't include deceived Christians along with the deceived who deny Christ. And you're wrong in thinking the timing of Christ's return has nothing to do with their deception. It has EVERYTHING to do with it. That's specifically why Apostle Paul gave the 2 Thess.2 Message about the 'timing' of Christ's return and gathering to the Thessalonians again. The first time marker of Christ's return and the gathering which Paul gave them is in 1 Thess.5.

To know the times and the seasons Paul spoke of means being aware of the signs our Lord gave to watch for. He put them in His Word. His Book of Revelation was especially for giving us more about those signs, so we'd know.

By 'knowing' and watching the signs, is HOW we become ready in order to stay... faithful to Him and not be deceived. Someone that just says they are ready while disregarding the signs He gave is fooling their self and already deceived.

I really don't see how you could not understand this. The first messiah coming will be the pseudo-Christ (i.e., the Antichrist). Christ's Church will be here on earth when that pseudo-Christ shows up working great wonders and miracles in the sight of men. For deceived brethren, they will think that pseudo-Christ actually is our Lord Jesus. They will be fooled, the main reason being because of how they listened to men's doctrines instead of paying attention to our Lord in His Word. Apostle Paul linked that idea to their not having received "the love of the truth." (2 Thess.2:10-11).

Sounds like you're saying YOUR belief is exactly right and anyone who believes different is going to Hell. Utterly ridiculous.

 

[tomwebster]

Sounds like you're saying YOUR belief is exactly right and anyone who believes different is going to Hell. Utterly ridiculous.

That is probably what the five foolish virgins told the five wise virgins. Just remember you have been warned.

 

[Duckybill]

That is probably what the five foolish virgins told the five wise virgins. Just remember you have been warned.

Warned about what? That your doctrine is perfect and you appointed yourself as God's spokesman? I'm saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not by your doctrine.

 

[tomwebster]

Warned about what? That your doctrine is perfect and you appointed yourself as God's spokesman? I'm saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not by your doctrine.

And all ten were virgins just before the Bridegroom came.

 

[Duckybill]

And all ten were virgins just before the Bridegroom came.

How long has your doctrine been perfect?

 

[tomwebster]

How long has your doctrine been perfect?

I read and understand Scripture.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is no use continuing this db, we will not agree.

 

[Duckybill]

So tell us Tom, is everyone who doesn't believe like you going to Hell? Honestly that is what you sound like you're saying.

 

[Duckybill]

There is no use continuing this db, we will not agree.

If your doctrine isn't perfect then it must be erroneous. Which is it Tom? Since you are issuing warnings to us we should know which it is.

 

[Etienne]

DuckyBill, I am new to this forum but have read numerous posts that you have made.

To me it sounds as if your sole purpose on this forum is to make quarrel and disprove others. You, sir, are not open for opinions. Its a dead-end debate when you are one of the parties involved. Please refrain from trying to disprove everyone.

"Since you are issuing warnings to us we should know which it is." DuckyBill

If i recall correctly, he replied to YOU and not 'us'.

He never said his doctrine is perfect, you said that. He never said that you are going to hell, you said that. all that he said was you have been warned. Its not him warning you, its the Spirit.



"I was asking for clarification on YOUR opinion. Do YOU believe that pre-trib believers are going to Hell?" DuckyBill

TomWebster did not even reply to this and yet you are going on about it as if he said you are going to hell.
Please sir, work on your attitude and refrain from putting words in someone elses mouth.


I have yet to see a positive post that you have made.

 

[Duckybill]

DuckyBill, I am new to this forum but have read numerous posts that you have made.

To me it sounds as if your sole purpose on this forum is to make quarrel and disprove others. You, sir, are not open for opinions. Its a dead-end debate when you are one of the parties involved. Please refrain from trying to disprove everyone.

"Since you are issuing warnings to us we should know which it is." DuckyBill

If i recall correctly, he replied to YOU and not 'us'.

His warning wasn't to all who do not agree with his doctrine? Since Tom didn't yet reply then why don't you wait to find out?

He never said his doctrine is perfect, you said that.

No I didn't.

He never said that you are going to hell, you said that.

No I didn't.

all that he said was you have been warned. Its not him warning you, its the Spirit.

But which spirit?

I was asking for clarification. But since you are answering for Tom go ahead.

"I was asking for clarification on YOUR opinion. Do YOU believe that pre-trib believers are going to Hell?" DuckyBill

TomWebster did not even reply to this and yet you are going on about it as if he said you are going to hell.
Please sir, work on your attitude and refrain from putting words in someone elses mouth.

So why don't you wait til he does reply?

I have yet to see a positive post that you have made.

Mt 7 Narrow is the way and few there be that find it.

How's that for positive?

Perhaps you are speaking for Tom because he has no answers to my questions or because you agree with him?

 

[Etienne]

So tell us Tom, is everyone who doesn't believe like you going to Hell? Honestly that is what you sound like you're saying.

Excuse me?

How long has your doctrine been perfect?

...Again. Proverbs 11:1 Please.

I was asking for clarification. But since you are answering for Tom go ahead.

So you told me to go ahead and answer for him, whats the problem?




My point is that you are taking his words, changing it into what you WANT to read and making as if he said that. You just tried the same with my post.




BACK TO TOPIC!

My views on the rupture is that it is going to be AWESOME! I can not wait for it to start, for then we who believe and have faith, will go home. Let this happen sooner than later i say.

 

[Duckybill]

Excuse me?

You're excused.

...Again. Proverbs 11:1 Please.

True but irrelevant.

So you told me to go ahead and answer for him, whats the problem?

No problem here.

My point is that you are taking his words, changing it into what you WANT to read and making as if he said that. You just tried the same with my post.

You simply didn't comprehend.

BACK TO TOPIC!

My views on the rupture is that it is going to be AWESOME! I can not wait for it to start, for then we who believe and have faith, will go home. Let this happen sooner than later i say.

So you're saying that Tom believes in the 'rapture'?

 

[Etienne]

You're excused.

True but irrelevant.

No problem here.

You simply didn't comprehend.

So you're saying that Tom believes in the 'rapture'?

PFFft!! Your argument is invalid! :lol:

Incorrigible much?



No, what I said is, The rupture is going to be awesome! I cant wait for it to happen. Rather sooner than later i said!
It IS going to happen. Whether you want/like it not to, it does not matter. For God is bigger than all and He said that it will happen, so it will happen. ANd its going to happen just the way He said it will. No other way.

It will be utter chaos for the unbelievers, and the most beautiful day ever for the believers. How can you be worried when you have God at your side?
Yes satan is mighty, but God is ALL-mighty. Bigger even than your imagination, so His word is what counts. My words of advice, listen to what He says, for it is All true. ^_^

Kazaa!


[ediTed for spelling mistakes]


Sorry for the double post, just have to say this

He never said his doctrine is perfect, you said that. (Neshama)

No I didn't. (DuckyBill)

Then i proved that you did say that, so you lied. That is why i posted Proverbs. You see it as irrelevant, i see it as sin and against the Board rules.
Please dont.

 

[Duckybill]

No, what I said is, The rupture is going to be awesome! I cant wait for it to happen. Rather sooner than later i said!
It IS going to happen. Whether you want/like it not to, it does not matter. For God is bigger than all and He said that it will happen, so it will happen. ANd its going to happen just the way He said it will. No other way.

I think you're confused. I believe in the 'rapture' not "rupture". I don't think Tom does. You need to preach 'rapture' to Tom.

 

[Etienne]

Simple language mistake mate...

So that is your final wording? :huh: