New Views on the Rapture

[Duckybill]

Simple language mistake mate...

So that is your final wording? :huh:

Seriously I can't see myself going to forums where I don't understand the language and trying to correct others.

 

[Etienne]

Seriously I can't see myself going to forums where I don't understand the language and trying to correct others.

Who said that i do not understand the simple English that you are verbally communicating with? It’s not my home language, but that does not mean i do not understand it. And when im right, I am certainly able to correct the fault.

And if you cant see yourself going to forums where you dont understand the language, then I’d propose that you dont do it. Clearly as that could not have been directed at me, for I Do understand your simple language.



Back to Topic: There is not much to debate about when the area under discussion is subject to the rApture, because what is stated is what is going to occur. Our views may differ, but in the end it is not our views that makes a single ounce of difference, is it?

 

[Duckybill]

Back to Topic: There is not much to debate about when the area under discussion is subject to the rApture, because what is stated is what is going to occur. Our views may differ, but in the end it is not our views that makes a single ounce of difference, is it?

Please take this matter up with Tom. Should be interesting.

 

[Etienne]

Please take this matter up with Tom. Should be interesting.

I am sure he will read the posts.


Have a nice day! ...or see you in an other thread

 

[TWC]

Matthew 25:7-13
Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, "Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out."
"No," they replied, "there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves."
But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
Later the others also came. "Lord, Lord," they said, "open the door for us!"
But he replied, "Truly I tell you, I don’t know you."
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Matthew 24:9-14
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

[veteran]

Sounds like you're saying YOUR belief is exactly right and anyone who believes different is going to Hell. Utterly ridiculous.

It actually sounds more like you are trying to assign the clear Scripture examples I gave as being 'my' opinion, trying to use that as an excuse to not have to face what the Scripture is actually teaching.

Warned about what? That your doctrine is perfect and you appointed yourself as God's spokesman? I'm saved by grace through faith in Jesus, not by your doctrine.

That right there is yet another example of not wanting to actually face what the Scripture is teaching, but to try and assign it as opinion as an excuse to not heed it.

Well, the Scriptures covered are 'opinion', but not mine, not Tom's, etc. They are of Christ's opinion, and of His Apostles through The Holy Spirit.

 

[Duckybill]

When all is said and done you will find that all those whose Savior is Jesus/God will be eternally saved whether they agree with your or my viewpoint on the 'rapture' or not. It is not a matter of salvation as you guys are trying to make it.

 

[rockytopva]

When all is said and done you will find that all those whose Savior is Jesus/God will be eternally saved whether they agree with your or my viewpoint on the 'rapture' or not. It is not a matter of salvation as you guys are trying to make it.

If you have no followers... Threaten them with the hell fire! Hammerstone has a forum in which calls the "Bible Study Christian Forum." He has made it so only he can post there. But who is to argue with him? He pays the bills... He owns the site. He can do whatever he wants within the confines of ChristianityBoard.com!


Its the same with God. He has not given us the concise information regarding the end of times.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. - Matthew 24:36
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. - Acts 1:7

God also has secrets. He has purposely made the times and the seasons tough to resolve. Its his universe! He can do whatever he pleases! And it pleased him not to give a whole lot out regarding the end of times! I have done a video (http://www.youtube.c...h?v=b7rTb4BJQsg) on Isaac Newton's 2060 AD prophecy is which I said in the video that these prophecies are 'close' and quoted Isaac Newton... Who said...

“It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." –Isaac Newton

 

[veteran]

When all is said and done you will find that all those whose Savior is Jesus/God will be eternally saved whether they agree with your or my viewpoint on the 'rapture' or not. It is not a matter of salvation as you guys are trying to make it.

The end of this world is going to happen how God says in His Word. Following men's doctrines and traditions is not a sign of that.

 

[Duckybill]

The end of this world is going to happen how God says in His Word. Following men's doctrines and traditions is not a sign of that.

How about doctrines of demons?

1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

 

[tomwebster]

How about doctrines of demons?

1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV)
[sup]1 [/sup]Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

If you want to talk about them, "teachings of demons," you should start a new topic. They are being taught or have been taught on this forum and "the rapture" is only one of them.

 

[Duckybill]

If you want to talk about them, "teachings of demons," you should start a new topic. They are being taught or have been taught on this forum and "the rapture" is only one of them.

Or the denial of "the rapture".

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

 

[TWC]

Context is important.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The phrase "the coming" in verse 15 is singular, meaning one event.

 

[Duckybill]

The phrase "the coming" in verse 15 is singular, meaning one event.

Which means?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Does anyone here believe there will be a resurrection some day ??
I expect most would say yes.

At the time of the resurrection , will there be living believers ??
I expect most of us would say yes.

How do they get new bodies similar to the resurrected saints??
What will the Lord do ?? How will He do it ??

If the Lord can take a completely decayed , thousand year old body from the grave, and resurrected it to be brand new and eternal ...... do you think He could take a living body and change it as well ???

If so , what would you call the event of transforming living bodies ???

Use whatever terminology you want is just fine. In modern day it is often referred to as the rapture. It drives some folks nuts to try to accept that , but in my opinion they were half way to the nuthouse anyway with their hair-brained anti-rapture ideas.

It troubles me how many Christians can be so far out to lunch , yet convince themselves they are experts of some kind. No wonder people keep an arms length from confused people who pretend to fly under the Christian banner.These endless arguments are never beneficial to Christianity.

The rapture is a factual event predicted in scripture. The timing of it is uncertain. Get over it folks. Thanks.

You will find a lot of folks who cannot handle this information .... however they boast they can handle the Anti-Christ . Nuthouse theology knows no bounds.

 

[veteran]

Does anyone here believe there will be a resurrection some day ??
I expect most would say yes.

At the time of the resurrection , will there be living believers ??
I expect most of us would say yes.

How do they get new bodies similar to the resurrected saints??
What will the Lord do ?? How will He do it ??

If the Lord can take a completely decayed , thousand year old body from the grave, and resurrected it to be brand new and eternal ...... do you think He could take a living body and change it as well ???

If so , what would you call the event of transforming living bodies ???

Use whatever terminology you want is just fine. In modern day it is often referred to as the rapture. It drives some folks nuts to try to accept that , but in my opinion they were half way to the nuthouse anyway with their hair-brained anti-rapture ideas.

It troubles me how many Christians can be so far out to lunch , yet convince themselves they are experts of some kind. No wonder people keep an arms length from confused people who pretend to fly under the Christian banner.These endless arguments are never beneficial to Christianity.

The rapture is a factual event predicted in scripture. The timing of it is uncertain. Get over it folks. Thanks.

You will find a lot of folks who cannot handle this information .... however they boast they can handle the Anti-Christ . Nuthouse theology knows no bounds.

The ones confused about the timing of the resurrection are those on the pre-trib doctrine, a doctrine that only began historically in a few churches in Britain in the 1800's. Prior to that time, since the 1st century A.D., Christ's Church accepted only a one-time coming of our Lord Jesus and gathering of the saints after the tribulation.

So you're actually mocking many, many of the early saints who declared Christ's coming and our gathering after the tribulation (which is written). Some of those early saints received The Gospel directly from some of Christ's own Apostles and were instructed by them. That's also who you're assigning your "Nuthouse theology" phrase to.

Since the early Church's acceptance of Christ's coming and our gathering after the tribulation, that doctrine has not changed even for today.

But the pre-trib doctrine ideas have been in constant change since they began even only in the 1800's. The original pre-trib doctrine preached that only those in Christ would see the sign of His coming, and the unsaved would not know, which is the idea of a 'secret' rapture. Later, the pre-trib schools dropped that idea, and now are trying to disassociate themselves from its history altogether. The real evidence of "Nuthouse theology" doctrine is with the pre-trib doctrines.

 

[rockytopva]

But the pre-trib doctrine ideas have been in constant change since they began even only in the 1800's. The original pre-trib doctrine preached that only those in Christ would see the sign of His coming, and the unsaved would not know, which is the idea of a 'secret' rapture. Later, the pre-trib schools dropped that idea, and now are trying to disassociate themselves from its history altogether. The real evidence of "Nuthouse theology" doctrine is with the pre-trib doctrines.

Nuthouse theology....

[sup]3[/sup]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

[sup]4[/sup]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.- 2 Peter 3:3,4




You sir are a scoffer.

 

[aspen]

Does anyone here believe there will be a resurrection some day ??
I expect most would say yes.

At the time of the resurrection , will there be living believers ??
I expect most of us would say yes.

How do they get new bodies similar to the resurrected saints??
What will the Lord do ?? How will He do it ??

If the Lord can take a completely decayed , thousand year old body from the grave, and resurrected it to be brand new and eternal ...... do you think He could take a living body and change it as well ???

If so , what would you call the event of transforming living bodies ???

Use whatever terminology you want is just fine. In modern day it is often referred to as the rapture. It drives some folks nuts to try to accept that , but in my opinion they were half way to the nuthouse anyway with their hair-brained anti-rapture ideas.

It troubles me how many Christians can be so far out to lunch , yet convince themselves they are experts of some kind. No wonder people keep an arms length from confused people who pretend to fly under the Christian banner.These endless arguments are never beneficial to Christianity.

The rapture is a factual event predicted in scripture. The timing of it is uncertain. Get over it folks. Thanks.

You will find a lot of folks who cannot handle this information .... however they boast they can handle the Anti-Christ . Nuthouse theology knows no bounds.

Amen. Arguing about how the rapture will happen is about as important as debating what kind of clothing Jesus will be wearing when He returns. I think it is a safe bet He will be dressed and Christians will be raised from the dead and the living will meet with Him in many different ways - this is another forest being missed for the trees.

 

[veteran]

Nuthouse theology....

[sup]3[/sup]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

[sup]4[/sup]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.- 2 Peter 3:3,4




You sir are a scoffer.

If I'm a scoffer, then why does the Pre-trib school refuse the simple timing Christ gave below for His coming and the gathering of His saints?...

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(KJV)

 

[TWC]

Which means?

It means that the elect are gathered at the second coming which is after the tribulation, just as the Bible says. The pretrib position states that the rapture and the second coming are two separate events. The passage in Thessalonians that you posted to support a pretrib rapture, that those who are alive and remain are to be "caught up" to meet the Lord in the air, is referring to the second coming, which is after the tribulation.

Look at the passage again.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Why are those who are left still remain until the coming of the Lord? If your answer has anything to do with the rapture, you're reading your assumption into the text. Those who are left are left because they're still living. Unlike the rapture, that is in the text; no assumptions required. Also, if those who are "left behind" are those who haven't received salvation, why is Paul including himself (we who are alive) and addressing this to a church?

The tribulation is going to be a time of unprecedented trouble, and those who are expecting to not go through it will not be ready for it. There are people who put so much faith in their doctrines that they really don't care what the Bible really says, just as long as they can use it to support what they believe.

Matthew 13:18-23
“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

It's no wonder that this doctrine seems to thrive in the western church...