NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,578
4,880
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your post and your choice of the words "dissect good works from the law" shows your lack of understanding of the difference between good works produced by the Spirit of Christ (the fruit of the Spirit), and good works produced through obedience to the letter of the law contained in the written law and commandments (which is that Paul referred to as "the letter of the law"), which is the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit.

The fruit of the Spirit is not lawlessness. Obedience to the law is lawlessness.

Bear in mind before you even read the rest that you don't even have a temple to offer sacrifices for your lack of obedience to the commandments you claim should be upheld - commandments which are part of Mosaic law which does not impart life because the failure to obey brings only death to the one who tries to live by obedience to IT, instead of obedience through faith in Christ producing the fruit of the Spirit that fulfills the law.

Like all who follow the same doctrine expressed in your post, you don't even realize that Christ's blood and living by the Spirit is not nullified by your doctrine, which despite any protest among its adherents teaches nothing more or less than "God requires of believers that they have faith in Christ + obedience to Mosaic law".

Your post equates the shadow of [Christ and the fruit of His Spirit], with Christ and the fruit of His Spirit.

The shadow is not equal to the God who gave the shadow to be a tutor to bring those who followed it, to Christ.

The Mosaic law is the letter that kills. The Spirit gives life. The law written on the heart (Jer.31:31-33) is the fruit of the Spirit, which is not lawless, but fulfills the law.

Your post betrays the fact that like so many others who teach the same doctrine you are expressing in your post, you do not understand (and as a result you are holding onto the Old Covenant, which brings death to all who hold onto it, because it's based on obedience to written laws and the blood of animals continually required to be sacrificed for sin),

and you believe the Old Covenant is still in operation alongside the New Covenant, which is based on faith in Christ and the blood of Christ shed once-for-all for sin, which produces the fruit of the Spirit that fulfills the written laws (the letter of the law), and imparts eternal life.

Your post shows that you do not understand in any way what it means for the law to have been a shadow, or what it means for the law to be written on the heart instead of on tablets of stone and in scrolls, nor do you understand the difference between man's futile attempts to live either by, or in obedience to the written law and the commandments - the letter of the law that kills - on one hand, and living by the Spirit through faith in Christ which leads to His Spirit producing the fruit of the Spirit in the one who lives by the Spirit (instead of by its shadow), on the other hand.

The apostle Paul especially, wrote lengthy passages in numerous letters trying to explain it. Unfortunately as his letter to the Galatians shows, even then there were those whose understanding was not capable of accepting it. They wanted Christ + obedience to the letter of the law.

The word "forever" that you see in the Old Testament law is always translated from the Hebrew word ‛ôlâm: the beginning or the end of the period is not known.

Looking back in time when the beginning of the period is not known:

"And David and his men went up and invaded the Geshurites, and the Gezrites, and the Amalekites. For they were the inhabitants of the land from of old (‛ôlâm), as you come into Shur, even into the land of Egypt." (1 Samuel 27:8);

"And Joshua said to all the people, So says the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers lived of old (‛ôlâm) beyond the River, Terah the father of Abraham, and the father of Nahor, and they served other gods." (Joshua 24:2);

"Remember the days of old (‛ôlâm); consider the years of many generations. Ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you." (Deuteronomy 32:7).

Looking into the future when the end of the period is not known:

"If your brother, a Hebrew man or a Hebrew woman, is sold to you and serves you six years, then in the seventh year you shall let him go free from you.
And if he says to you, I will not go away from you, because he loves you and your house, because it has been good for him with you;

then you shall take an awl and put it through his ear to the door, and he shall be your servant forever (ôlâm). And also to your slave-girl you shall do so." (Deuteronomy 14:12, 16 & 17);

"And the LORD said to him, I have heard your prayer and your cry which you have made before Me. I have made this house which you have built holy, to put My name there forever (ôlâm). And My eyes and My heart shall be there all the days." (1 Kings 9:3);

"And you shall command the sons of Israel that they bring you pure olive oil beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn continuously in the tabernacle of the congregation, outside the veil which is before the testimony. Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD. It shall be a statute forever (ôlâm) to their generations on behalf of the sons of Israel." (Exodus 27:20-21).

‛ôlâm is closely related to the Greek word aeon (an Age of time), and because it denotes either a seemingly endless period of time (or an Age, the end of which was not known when the words were written), or a literally endless period of time, there are places in the Old Testament where ‛ôlâm does NOT mean "forever and ever", for example, taking us backwards in time from a certain point in time as in the verses quoted above.

‛ôlâm can also mean "forever and ever" (in perpetuity), for example in verses such as Proverbs 8:22-23; Genesis 21:33; Deuteronomy 32:40.

"Therefore the sons of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting (‛ôlâm) covenant.
It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever (‛ôlâm). For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed.

And He gave to Moses, when He had made an end of speaking with him upon Mount Sinai, two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written by the finger of God." (Exodus 31:16-18).

"The tablets of stone" in the above verse are what is known as the Law. As reflected in the word ‛ôlâm, the end of the period spoken of in Exodus 3:16 was not known when the commandment was given.

Jesus is our sabbath. THE LAW CHANGED

"For the priesthood being changed, there is of necessity a change made in the law also." (Hebrews 7:12).

"Why then the Law? It was added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come to those to whom it had been promised, being ordained through angels in the Mediator's hand." (Galatians 3:19).

You will never do even one good work produced by the Spirit - the fruit of the Spirit which fulfills the law - through obedience to the letter of the law contained in ordinances and the ten commandments, which is the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit of Christ.

I won't debate it further with you if you continue to argue in favor of the doctrine you follow and expressed in your post. It has been debated ad nauseam in these forums already, and this thread is about its OP. Not the subject you brought up.​
You seem to be over thinking what I said. I was simply pointing out that works in Scripture don't merely apply to specific works of the law but can pertain to good works in general, as I explained. Short and simple. Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) or do you believe we are saved by grace through faith and works?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
You seem to be over thinking what I said. I was simply pointing out that works in Scripture don't merely apply to specific works of the law but can pertain to good works in general.
That's not what your choice of words below implies, but okay.
Keep in mind that when it comes to the moral aspect of the Mosiac law, we cannot 'dissect' good works from the law and teach that we are saved by "these" works (good works) but just not "those" works (works of the law).
Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) or do you believe we are saved by grace through faith and works?
Even one rotten egg in an omelet makes the omelet inedible. What do our sinful actions and words do to our good works - whether produced by the Spirit of Christ, or through keeping the sabbath day holy in order to obey the commandment?

Jesus is the only righteous, sinless One. So we are not saved by our works, but thank God we are covered by Christ's righteousness, so that if we earnestly desire not to sin and desire to produce only good works - through faith in Christ and the fruit of the Spirit being produced in us, and if we continuously confess our sins and ask Him to reveal to us any hidden fault in us, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, because through our faith in Him, He is our Advocate with the Father, and His blood cleanses us from all sin.

It's a life-long process of sanctification. The body of the flesh wars against the Spirit. That's the reason our works - whether our works are the fruit of the Spirit, or our own obedience to Mosaic law and commandments, will never cleanse us nor save us, nor justify us. We are justified by Christ because our sin was laid on Him.

So we are saved by grace through faith only. But we have a responsibility to walk in the Spirit by abiding in the Vine (Christ).​
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses. (Leviticus 19:18)
Just so you're aware. James' example has nothing to do with the commandment you quoted above. It has to do with the new commandment Jesus gave us:

John 13:34-35
I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another. By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another. (One commandment).

John 15:12-14
"This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IN PRACTICE?

1 John 3:17-18
But whoever has this world's goods and sees his brother having need, and shuts up his bowels from him, how does the love of God dwell in him?
My children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

James 2:15-18
If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and if one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them those things which are needful to the body, what good is it? Even so, if it does not have works, faith is dead, being by itself. But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:1-4: My brothers, do not have the faith of our Lord Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
For if there comes a gold-fingered man in fancy clothing into your assembly, and if there also comes in a poor man in shabby clothing, and if you have respect to him who has the fancy clothing and say to him, You sit here in a good place, and say to the poor, You stand there, or sit here under my footstool;
Did you not make a difference among yourselves and became judges with evil thoughts?

Matthew 25:37-40
Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You? Or thirsty, and gave You drink? When did we see You a stranger, and took You in? Or naked, and clothed You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and came to You?
And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.
 
  • Love
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
15,098
8,394
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's not what your choice of words below implies, but okay.


Even one rotten egg in an omelet makes the omelet inedible. What do our sinful actions and words do to our good works - whether produced by the Spirit of Christ, or through keeping the sabbath day holy in order to obey the commandment?

Jesus is the only righteous, sinless One. So we are not saved by our works, but thank God we are covered by Christ's righteousness, so that if we earnestly desire not to sin and desire to produce only good works - through faith in Christ and the fruit of the Spirit being produced in us, and if we continuously confess our sins and ask Him to reveal to us any hidden fault in us, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, because through our faith in Him, He is our Advocate with the Father, and His blood cleanses us from all sin.

It's a life-long process of sanctification. The body of the flesh wars against the Spirit. That's the reason our works - whether our works are the fruit of the Spirit, or our own obedience to Mosaic law and commandments, will never cleanse us nor save us, nor justify us. We are justified by Christ because our sin was laid on Him.

So we are saved by grace through faith only. But we have a responsibility to walk in the Spirit by abiding in the Vine (Christ).​
if you do not walk in the vine, what happens to your grace and salvation?
 

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,578
4,880
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
That's not what your choice of words below implies, but okay.

Even one rotten egg in an omelet makes the omelet inedible. What do our sinful actions and words do to our good works - whether produced by the Spirit of Christ, or through keeping the sabbath day holy in order to obey the commandment?

Jesus is the only righteous, sinless One. So we are not saved by our works, but thank God we are covered by Christ's righteousness, so that if we earnestly desire not to sin and desire to produce only good works - through faith in Christ and the fruit of the Spirit being produced in us, and if we continuously confess our sins and ask Him to reveal to us any hidden fault in us, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, because through our faith in Him, He is our Advocate with the Father, and His blood cleanses us from all sin.

It's a life-long process of sanctification. The body of the flesh wars against the Spirit. That's the reason our works - whether our works are the fruit of the Spirit, or our own obedience to Mosaic law and commandments, will never cleanse us nor save us, nor justify us. We are justified by Christ because our sin was laid on Him.

So we are saved by grace through faith only. But we have a responsibility to walk in the Spirit by abiding in the Vine (Christ).​
Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

I was glad to hear you say - "That's the reason our works - whether our works are the fruit of the Spirit, or our own obedience to Mosaic law and commandments, will never cleanse us nor save us, nor justify us. We are justified by Christ because our sin was laid on Him. So we are saved by grace through faith only." Amen!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Eternally Grateful

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,578
4,880
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Just so you're aware. James' example has nothing to do with the commandment you quoted above. It has to do with the new commandment Jesus gave us:

John 13:34-35
I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another. By this all shall know that you are My disciples, if you have love toward one another. (One commandment).

John 15:12-14
"This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you."

1 John 3:23
And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

WHAT DOES THIS LOOK LIKE IN PRACTICE?

1 John 3:17-18
But whoever has this world's goods and sees his brother having need, and shuts up his bowels from him, how does the love of God dwell in him?
My children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

James 2:15-18
If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and if one of you says to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them those things which are needful to the body, what good is it? Even so, if it does not have works, faith is dead, being by itself. But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:1-4: My brothers, do not have the faith of our Lord Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
For if there comes a gold-fingered man in fancy clothing into your assembly, and if there also comes in a poor man in shabby clothing, and if you have respect to him who has the fancy clothing and say to him, You sit here in a good place, and say to the poor, You stand there, or sit here under my footstool;
Did you not make a difference among yourselves and became judges with evil thoughts?

Matthew 25:37-40
Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, and fed You? Or thirsty, and gave You drink? When did we see You a stranger, and took You in? Or naked, and clothed You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and came to You?
And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you have done it to Me.
I would not exactly say nothing to do. In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. These two great commandments are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) Yet we are now under a new covenant and the law is written in our hearts. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
I would not exactly say nothing to do. In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. These two great commandments are found in the law of Moses. (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18) Yet we are now under a new covenant and the law is written in our hearts. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9)

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
All the law and all scripture "is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (1 Tim 3:16).

Loving your brother is also loving your neighbor. God makes it possible through the Spirit of Christ dwelling in those who believe in Him to fulfill the above commandments, which are behaviors produced by the Spirit of Christ - the fruit of the Spirit. The flesh (human effort alone) cannot produce the fruit of the Spirit which is represented in the above shadow of the fruit of the Spirit (i.e the commandments) through human attempts at obedience without the Spirit of Christ, because the flesh is weakened through sin.

"I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." John 15:5.

Walking by the Spirit is living by faith in Christ. We do not need to concentrate on obeying the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit, because they are the shadow of behaviors produced by the Spirit of Christ, but all scripture "is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." For "I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Romans 7:7

"So, my brothers, you also have become dead to the law by the body of Christ so that you should be married to Another, even to Him raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to God." Romans 7:4

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes." Romans 10:4

Romans 13
8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.​
 
Last edited:

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,332
3,395
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
All the law and all scripture "is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (1 Tim 3:16).

Loving your brother is also loving your neighbor. God makes it possible through the Spirit of Christ dwelling in those who believe in Him to fulfill the above commandments, which are behaviors produced by the Spirit of Christ - the fruit of the Spirit. The flesh (human effort alone) cannot produce the fruit of the Spirit which is represented in the above shadow of the fruit of the Spirit (i.e the commandments) through human attempts at obedience without the Spirit of Christ, because the flesh is weakened through sin.

"I am the Vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." John 15:5.

Walking by the Spirit is living by faith in Christ. We do not need to concentrate on obeying the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit, because they are the shadow of behaviors produced by the Spirit of Christ, but all scripture "is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."
Do you love the Jewish Israeli's now under attack by HAMAS?
 

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
if you do not walk in the vine, what happens to your grace and salvation?
"When Christ our Life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory." Col 3:4
"For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God." Col 3:3

Who is your life?

-- "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26

-- He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16

-- "I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death." -- Revelation 1:17-18.

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. IF you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you." (John 15:6-7).

Adam did not abide in the Word in whom is life (John 1:2 & 4), which says: ".. in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die" (Genesis 2:17). When he believed the lie that said instead, "You shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4) - which implied that Adam's eternal life | immortality was in himself - Adam began to die.

The One who has the keys of hades and of death, the One who is your life has told you that if you do not abide in Him, you will die.​
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: L.A.M.B.

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Do you love the Jewish Israeli's now under attack by HAMAS?
You're out of order with your question because I have already repeatedly stated what I believe, and made it clear what the attitude of my heart is toward the Jews - both in Israel and elsewhere.

My Savior is Jew.

Is He your Savior too?

@BlessedPeace Prove it by not asking questions of others which are TOTALLY out of order.

You are encouraging more antisemitsm by your arrogance. You are not the friend of the Jews in Israel or anywhere else.

But the devil does not fool me into becoming antismetic because of the arrogant, out of line questioning and just general overall arrogance of those who claim they are friends to the Jews, but are not.

Many others will be encouraged by your arrogance to hate the Jews, though, because "the Jews" are the catalyst for your many personal attacks and false accusations against others.​
 
Last edited:

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,332
3,395
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You're out of order with your question because I have already repeatedly stated what I believe, and made it clear what the attitude of my heart is toward the Jews - both in Israel and elsewhere.

My Savior is Jew.

Is He your Savior too?

@BlessedPeace Prove it by not asking questions of others which are TOTALLY out of order.

You are encouraging more antisemitsm by your arrogance. You are not the friend of the Jews in Israel or anywhere else.

But the devil does not fool me into becoming antismetic because of the arrogant, out of line questioning and just general overall arrogance of those who claim they are friends to the Jews, but are not.

Many others will be encouraged by your arrogance to hate the Jews, though, because "the Jews" are the catalyst for your many personal attacks and false accusations against others.​

It was a yes or no question.

:jest:
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,079
1,236
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you love the Jewish Israeli's now under attack by HAMAS?

Do you love Palestinians who are Muslim? Do you love Indian Buddhists? Do you love other races of various religions that do not accept Christ as Messiah?

I think we can love anyone in a humanitarian sense but not in a religious sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
It was a yes or no question.

:jest:
It was a "do not answer this" question, because it was a totally out of line question because I already answered YOU on it before, a few times.

And you have no conscience.

I'm placing you on ignore now. I'm not interested in anything you have to say anymore.
 
Last edited:

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Do you love Palestinians who are Muslim? Do you love Indian Buddhists? Do you love other races of various religions that do not accept Christ as Messiah?

I think we can love anyone in a humanitarian sense but not in a religious sense.
What @BlessedPeace has been trying desperately to imply in this thread is that because:

Regardless of what the country is called, I do not believe Jews who do not believe in Jesus are part of Israel or "the olive tree", and only Jews + Gentiles who believe in Jesus are part of Israel, which is in Christ alone,

I'm therefore "a Jew-hater and I support Palestinian Arabs in their war against (the country called) Israel and its Jewish population".

Neither is the case. I've made that clear to @BlessedPeace in this thread and in other threads not even started by me, and yet she continues to imply by her questioning that I hate Jews.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,332
3,395
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It was a "do not answer this" question, because it was a totally out of line question because I already answered YOU on it before, a few times.

And you have no conscience.

I'm placing you on ignore now. I'm not interested in anything you have to say anymore.
Your belief about what you think qualifies Jews to actually be Jews, in what you believe to be Israel, cannot be sustained by scripture.

When you don't answer the simple yes or no question but go into a hate screed, you prove I have not misunderstood your posts one bit.

When you claim to recognize Jews and Israel by your un-Biblical terms and conditions, don't blame me for addressing what you and others like you are.

Your vile hate screed above tells me what you are not.

Christian.
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,332
3,395
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Do you love Palestinians who are Muslim? Do you love Indian Buddhists? Do you love other races of various religions that do not accept Christ as Messiah?

I think we can love anyone in a humanitarian sense but not in a religious sense.
Post the passage please where Jesus equivocates regarding loving our neighbor.
 

ewq1938

Well-Known Member
Jul 11, 2015
6,079
1,236
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What @BlessedPeace has been trying desperately to imply in this thread is that because:

Regardless of what the country is called, I do not believe Jews who do not believe in Jesus are part of Israel or "the olive tree", and only Jews + Gentiles who believe in Jesus are part of Israel, which is in Christ alone,

That would be correct theology.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zao is life

Zao is life

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2020
3,209
1,256
113
Africa
zaoislife.blogspot.com
Faith
Christian
Country
South Africa
Yes.

Do you love the Palestinians now under attack by Israel?
I know your question isn't for me, but I gave your post a "Like" because I do love the people God loves - which is all humanity that Jesus died for.

I just want to clarify my "Like" of your post to make it clear once again that ldon't side with the Palestinians who are now under attack by Israel though, against Israel. Personally I don't believe there would be a war if the Palestinians did not want to annihilate the Jews in "Israel" and wipe the country off the map. God knows what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is evil, and hates what is wrong and what is evil, but loves what is right and what is good.

If the majority of Americans were unbelievers who do not believe in Jesus, and many U.S towns came under the same attack by illegal immigrants doing the same things to Americans that was done to the Jews on 10/7, the USA would have every right to get rid of the leadership and organization who had planned the attack. If that organization had embedded itself in civilian buildings all over Mexico City, and if most of the inhabitants supported that leadership and wanted all of Texas and other Southern Sates to "revert" to Mexico,

well then the USA could not be blamed when thousands of civilians in Mexico City die in the cross fire when the US defends itself.

IMO​
 

BlessedPeace

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2023
4,332
3,395
113
Bend
akiane.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes.

Do you love the Palestinians now under attack by Israel?
No.
Nor did Jesus say too.

Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
The Jews in Jesus time,and in many places today,lived in closed communities.

Today think of the term, Jewish neighborhood, Muslim neighborhood.

Jesus didn't say to love everyone no matter what.we know he wouldn't say that because,as the OT reports, God,who was Jesus in the NT, did not love everyone.

He or the Hebrews killed their,Gods, enemies.