NEWSFLASH: Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac. Neither was Jacob.

[Randy Kluth]

I'll have to come back again tomorrow or later in the week. Tomorrow is already today where I am. Tomorrow where you are. Thanks for the discussion so far.

I'm used to different time zones. What part of the world do you live in? I live in the Pacific NW USA.

One of my best friends lives 2 hours ahead of me, and my daughter lives 3 hours ahead of me. My stepsons live 8 hours ahead of me.

I've been watching the news about Israel. When it's day here, it's night there, and vice versa. Since I'm retired, I've started losing my sleep regimen--I may post something in the early morning hours PST.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes. The Jews are like living stones in this sense: We don't only have the ruins of ancient synagogues and first-century churches ad tombs like the tomb of David, the city of David, the libraries of Babylon, Sennacherib's prism, and many other archaeological phenomena to confirm to us and prove to the world that our faith in the writings of the prophets and people of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are not fantasies.

We also have a nation descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob with us to this day called "the Jews".

And God is bringing Jews even in Israel into the New Covenant almost daily. He has a harvest in Israel among the Jews, so there's its purpose, and - maybe it's my imagination running away with me - but I believe that the territory called Israel today is also the place God spoke long ago to His prophets about, when He said where He will judge the nations.

With regard to God's judgment of the nations only, it does not matter whether or not ALL Jews in Israel are in His Kingdom in Christ. God hates wickedness and treachery, and the nations today, and since 1948, can be divided up between those who hate them with a diabolical and ancient hatred and want to annihilate them, and those who don't, but nevertheless speak out of both sides of the mouth to them, and in the process, all the treachery of the nations has found its nest in Israel.

And that's where the judgment of the nations will occur - in the nest of their treachery. Whether or not ALL Israel's Jews are saved by then.​

Yes, that's a good way of looking at it, that Jerusalem is sort of the burial ground for the world, where the nations of the world, including Israel, will be brought into final judgment in this age. However, I must clarify what I actually believe about Israel's full national salvation.

Again, this "national salvation" refers to *political salvation* of a nation, meaning deliverance from one's enemies. In the OT era Israel was politicallly delivered from her enemies and made whole as a nation when they obeyed God's Law. Obedience brought spiritual blessings upon them and deliverance from all kinds of problems.

So when I speak of "Israel's full national salvation," I'm speaking of their political deliverance from their enemies, and not of every Jew in Israel becoming "born again." The latter is evangelical salvation, whereas I'm talking primarily of political salvation, which is what "national salvation" is.

I do think the terms "political salvation" and "evangelial salvation" need to be distinguished in this respect, or we will fail to understand what Paul was saying is going to happen for Israel at Christ's Coming. When he comes, the nation will be brought back into a covenant relationship with Himself, though this time not under the Law of Moses, but rather, under the Covenant of Christ.

When a full nation comes to Christ it does not mean that the entire nation is fully evangelized in the sense of being "born again." Rather, it just means that an entire nation embraces Christianity as their religion and as their constitution. Many nations have done this already in history, and yet we know that each time a nation converted there remained many citizens who never were wholly Christian.

So the primary focus is on the nation receiving Christianity as their religion at Christ's Coming. And it has to do primarily with the restoration of the nation politically, so that they will be blessed as a nation once again, as they used to be blessed in the OT era when they obeyed the Law.

And this will enable the nation to prosper as a nation and endure with no more chance of oppression from outside enemies. That is the "political salvation" I'm talking about. This is the "full" national salvation I'm talking about, as opposed to the piecemeal salvation of Israel today, in which they own only pieces of original Israel, lacking essential territories of traditional Israel like the West Bank.

A "full salvation" requires a complete restoration of the nation as a "political salvation," which can only come about when the wicked Jews are judged, and the rest of the Jews repent as a people and accept Christ as their Messiah. Then God will bless them and restore the entire nation to them, though they've already received much of their land back.

Anyway, I just wanted to share how I look at it, even if you disagree. I always have to say what I believe, at least until someone shows me something that makes more sense. Thanks much!

 

[Zao is life]

Yes, that's a good way of looking at it, that Jerusalem is sort of the burial ground for the world, where the nations of the world, including Israel, will be brought into final judgment in this age. However, I must clarify what I actually believe about Israel's full national salvation.

Again, this "national salvation" refers to *political salvation* of a nation, meaning deliverance from one's enemies. In the OT era Israel was politicallly delivered from her enemies and made whole as a nation when they obeyed God's Law. Obedience brought spiritual blessings upon them and deliverance from all kinds of problems.

So when I speak of "Israel's full national salvation," I'm speaking of their political deliverance from their enemies, and not of every Jew in Israel becoming "born again." The latter is evangelical salvation, whereas I'm talking primarily of political salvation, which is what "national salvation" is.

I do think the terms "political salvation" and "evangelial salvation" need to be distinguished in this respect, or we will fail to understand what Paul was saying is going to happen for Israel at Christ's Coming. When he comes, the nation will be brought back into a covenant relationship with Himself, though this time not under the Law of Moses, but rather, under the Covenant of Christ.

When a full nation comes to Christ it does not mean that the entire nation is fully evangelized in the sense of being "born again." Rather, it just means that an entire nation embraces Christianity as their religion and as their constitution. Many nations have done this already in history, and yet we know that each time a nation converted there remained many citizens who never were wholly Christian.

So the primary focus is on the nation receiving Christianity as their religion at Christ's Coming. And it has to do primarily with the restoration of the nation politically, so that they will be blessed as a nation once again, as they used to be blessed in the OT era when they obeyed the Law.

And this will enable the nation to prosper as a nation and endure with no more chance of oppression from outside enemies. That is the "political salvation" I'm talking about. This is the "full" national salvation I'm talking about, as opposed to the piecemeal salvation of Israel today, in which they own only pieces of original Israel, lacking essential territories of traditional Israel like the West Bank.

A "full salvation" requires a complete restoration of the nation as a "political salvation," which can only come about when the wicked Jews are judged, and the rest of the Jews repent as a people and accept Christ as their Messiah. Then God will bless them and restore the entire nation to them, though they've already received much of their land back.

Anyway, I just wanted to share how I look at it, even if you disagree. I always have to say what I believe, at least until someone shows me something that makes more sense. Thanks much!

Thank you. That's good. You must share what you believe, it's good to discuss these things. I also used to read Romans 11 that way, but eventually I realized something, so I do disagree.
​

I know it's difficult to see things or read something differently when you've (we've) been convinced for decades that it means what you (we) think it means. It took a while before I was able to fully open my eyes to what Paul is really telling us in Romans 11.

IMO just like I used to for such a long time, those who read Romans 11:20-32 as a future event are missing or at the very least downplaying the fact that Paul provides the timing for what he is saying with the words,

"For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins."

I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

"There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins."

IMO in Romans 11 Paul is only saying that those natural branches who do not believe have been broken off from Israel, Gentiles are being grafted in among the remnant who believe, and the natural branches who have been broken off through their unbelief will be grafted in again IF they do not continue in unbelief.

It's been an ongoing thing since Jesus died for our sins and rose again. The Deliverer is Jesus, who came out of Zion and took away their sins, and our sins, nearly 2,000 years ago. The house of Israel and the house of Judah have received the New Covenant, and salvation - both of believing Jews and believing Gentiles - is an ongoing thing, and has been an ongoing thing since Jesus died and rose again.

Though I also used to read Romans 11:22 onward as a future event, IMO Paul is definitely not talking about an "event" still waiting to happen. The words "For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins" give the timing for it - because Jesus HAS taken away their sins, and our sins. It's not going to happen again that he takes away anyone's sins. He has done that once for all time.

So IMO the fullness of the Gentiles has been coming in since the first believing Gentile was grafted into the Olive tree in circa 30 A.D, and because most of the natural branches have been broken off through unbelief, in all this time blindness in part has happened to Israel, and this will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then the end of this Age will come, when Jesus returns.

Anyway I realize that those who are convinced that it's referring to a future "event" will not be able to see what I now see, any more than I would have been able to, before my eyes were opened to my fallacy.​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have no idea what you're talking about.
Neither do you.
But your "everlasting" circumcision is clearly not "everlasting".

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Galatians 5:6
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

God keeps his promises

I will pray he keeps it for you (if your born again)

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thank you. That's good. You must share what you believe, it's good to discuss these things. I also used to read Romans 11 that way, but eventually I realized something, so I do disagree.
​

I know it's difficult to see things or read something differently when you've (we've) been convinced for decades that it means what you (we) think it means. It took a while before I was able to fully open my eyes to what Paul is really telling us in Romans 11.

IMO just like I used to for such a long time, those who read Romans 11:20-32 as a future event are missing or at the very least downplaying the fact that Paul provides the timing for what he is saying with the words,

"For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins."

I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more.

This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

"There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins."

IMO in Romans 11 Paul is only saying that those natural branches who do not believe have been broken off from Israel, Gentiles are being grafted in among the remnant who believe, and the natural branches who have been broken off through their unbelief will be grafted in again IF they do not continue in unbelief.

It's been an ongoing thing since Jesus died for our sins and rose again. The Deliverer is Jesus, who came out of Zion and took away their sins, and our sins, nearly 2,000 years ago. The house of Israel and the house of Judah have received the New Covenant, and salvation - both of believing Jews and believing Gentiles - is an ongoing thing, and has been an ongoing thing since Jesus died and rose again.

Though I also used to read Romans 11:22 onward as a future event, IMO Paul is definitely not talking about an "event" still waiting to happen. The words "For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins" give the timing for it - because Jesus HAS taken away their sins, and our sins. It's not going to happen again that he takes away anyone's sins. He has done that once for all time.

So IMO the fullness of the Gentiles has been coming in since the first believing Gentile was grafted into the Olive tree in circa 30 A.D, and because most of the natural branches have been broken off through unbelief, in all this time blindness in part has happened to Israel, and this will continue until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then the end of this Age will come, when Jesus returns.

Anyway I realize that those who are convinced that it's referring to a future "event" will not be able to see what I now see, any more than I would have been able to, before my eyes were opened to my fallacy.​

Thanks for sharing, in particular because you do so "seasoned with salt."

 

[covenantee]

God keeps his promises

I will pray he keeps it for you (if your born again)

Yes, the Scriptures I've cited confirm that circumcision of the heart is the only true circumcision, through Christ the Everlasting One.

Nothing and no one else.

I've experienced it.

Have you?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Jesus did not fulfill the land promise by his death

please stop!

Christian Identity adherents cannot see the truth of God's word, brother.

The timing of all these threads that assail Jesus and the Jews,is a travesty. Hamas attacks Israel and then CI faithful attack Jews, Israel and Jesus, and his church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, the Scriptures I've cited confirm that circumcision of the heart is the only true circumcision, through Christ the Everlasting One.

Nothing and no one else.

I've experienced it.

Have you?

see thats why you can not discuss anything

Your right there is only one circumcision which SAVES

but we are not talking about salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Christian Identity adherents cannot see the truth of God's word, brother.

The timing of all these threads that assail Jesus and the Jews,is a travesty. Hamas attacks Israel and then CI faithful attack Jews, Israel and Jesus, and his church.

it just shows we are close to the last days

 

[covenantee]

see thats why you can not discuss anything

Your right there is only one circumcision which SAVES

but we are not talking about salvation.

Scripture is talking about Christ.

Christ is about salvation.

 

[BlessedPeace]

it just shows we are close to the last days

Perhaps. However, I think Satan's faithful at any time are aligned against the Saints.

 

[covenantee]

Perhaps. However, I think Satan's faithful at any time are aligned against the Saints.

Who might they be?

 

[Zao is life]

Who might they be?

Those who malign the true saints. Their spiritual forefathers maligned Jesus and the apostles.

Those who malign you and me, and follow their own 'gospel', which is no gospel at all.​

 

[Zao is life]

This needs to be said, so that all will understand what the OP of this thread is/was about, because what always becomes obvious in a thread like this, is that there is something seriously wrong in the theology of far too many Christians and in far too many churches:

The biblical scriptures are about THE seed of Abraham, who is Jesus the Christ.

A time came in the history of Israel when God promised:

"I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.

I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sins no more." -- Jeremiah 31:31-33.

Jesus said, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission (forgiveness) of sins." -- Matthew 26:28.

So the apostle Paul reminded the church at Rome that long before Christ came into the world, it was written that, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins." -- Romans 11:26.

Many Christians mistakenly read Romans 11:20-32 as a future event because they completely miss, or at the very least downplay the fact that Paul provides the timing for what he is saying about ALL Israel being saved, with the above words.

In Romans Chapter 11 Paul teaches that those who are natural descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but do not believe in Jesus, have been broken off from Israel. Gentiles who believe in Jesus are being grafted in among the remnant of the natural descendants who do believe. The natural branches who have been broken off through their unbelief will be grafted in again IF they do not continue in unbelief.

This has been an ongoing reality since Jesus died for our sins and rose again: "The Deliverer who came out of Zion" is a reference to Jesus, who came out of Zion and took away our sins, nearly 2,000 years ago. The house of Israel and the house of Judah have received the New Covenant, as God promised through the prophet Jeremiah; and salvation - both of believing Jews and believing Gentiles - has come, and it's in Christ.

However, because most of the natural branches have been broken off through unbelief, it means, as Paul puts it, that in all this time "Blindness in part has happened to Israel" (blindness has come upon part of Israel - the part that has been broken off through their unbelief) and this sad reality will continue until "the fullness of the Gentiles" has come in.

Then the end of this Age will come, when Jesus returns.

Many other Christians, though, have developed a wrongful and very sinful attitude towards Jews who do not believe. Instead of understanding that "For all (of us) have sinned and come short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" -- Romans 3:23-24, they read instead,

"For all unbelieving Jews have sinned and come short of the glory of God, and so are not being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, but are condemned."

The gospel truth is that no one - Jew or Gentile - is better than another, "For all (of us) have sinned and come short of the glory of God", and we are all saved by the grace of God alone, not by our own works, and whether Jew or Gentile, "He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil." -- John 3:18-19.

Any other view, and any other attitude towards unbelieving Jews, is totally unbalanced.

@covenantee Added this after you liked the post. Not sure if you want to retain your like or remove it:

Having said that, God sees all that is done under the sun, and God loves righteousness, and hates wickedness and injustice. Unbelieving Jews have been maligned, falsely accused and persecuted for nearly 2,000 years, and since 1947/1948, the nations have been divided between those who hate the Jews with a blind and diabolical (in many cases also religious) hatred, and the nations that speak out of both sides of the mouth to the Jews and to the state called "Israel" - which is a legitimate state that was created by the (united) nations in 1947/1948 - and have dealt, and continue to deal, treacherously with them.​

 

[Timtofly]

The OT prophets say God will graft them back in, He will keep his promise he made to the fathers. And paul reiterated that same promise

They won't be grafted back in. They will be natural branches again.

Being grafted in, right now, means they are not natural branches, but wild like everybody else.

The tree is not even Israel. The tree is Christ, even in the OT. Most of Israel were cut off over time, starting immediately at mount Sinai.

Being a Jew and Judaism since the return of the Babylonian captivity is not much different than Mormans and Mormanism. Both groups have their own laws and are born into their religious beliefs. Even letting outsiders convert into their lifestyle.

The point is that the Cross made natural branches obsolete. Israel was no longer a natural outgrowth of Christ. Those of Israel were no longer Israel. They were now just of Jacob. Or historically of Judah.

Being of Christ has always been the blessed part of the natural seed of Abraham, and the spiritual aspect of being a Hebrew. But that lineage went through Isaac and Israel as opposed to Ishmael and Esau. That is what Paul claims in Romans 9. The majority of Israel were lost/cut off way before Judah went into captivity in Babylon. But even then they could be grafted back in by keeping the Law. Over time they even forsook the Law. There was a minority of Jacob over time who came back into Christ without even knowing their natural heritage. I don't think any one can state Christians today are only from Jacob.

Being in Christ has always been available for all humanity. They are all the sons of Noah. Up until Abraham, no one had an advantage over any one else.

 

[Zao is life]

They won't be grafted back in. They will be natural branches again.

Unbelieving Jews are natural branches - then and now, who have been broken off from the Olive tree, whose root is Christ. By natural branches Paul was and still is (because his epistles are still valid today) talking only about about the genetic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - those who can trace their physical ancestry back to the patriarchs, a.k.a "Israel" (Israel according to the flesh), or "the Jews".

Jews who have been born into Jewish non-Christian families and who have become saved as adults, are natural branches that have been grafted back into the Olive tree again.

Non-Jews who come to Christ are grafted in among the remnant of the natural branches who believe.

Jews who come to Christ are grafted back into their own Olive tree again.

According to the words chosen by Paul - not by me, or by Timtofly

Unbelieving Jews and believing Jews are Israel according to the flesh, but unbelieving Jews are broken off from Israel, i.e from God's elect, because God's elect - His chosen - is Christ, and those who are in Him through faith in Him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I was responding to your public claim that "Abraham was not a Jew." That is extremely disingenuous and insulting to the Jewish People. You owe them, and Abraham, a very loud apology. I will not apologize to you for condemning your most open and indefensible statement that "Abraham is not a Jew!" You yourself stand not before a mirror, which is a faulty standard, but before God, who is the perfect standard, and explain to Him why you're saying these things. I don't have to know about your conversation with others.

You are very ignorant, Randy. Abraham was indeed not a Jew and that is a fact. Why are you offended by that? The Jews did descend from Abraham's line through Isaac and Jacob, but Abraham himself was not a Jew. If the fact that the Jews descended from Abraham makes him a Jew then I guess everyone that Abraham descended from were also Jews. That would include Adam, Eve, Noah and his wife, and many others. But the Jews did not originate with Adam, Noah or Abraham, they originated with the tribe of Judah, who was Abraham's great grandson. That is a fact. Why take offense to something that is factual?

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are very ignorant, Randy. Abraham was indeed not a Jew and that is a fact. Why are you offended by that? The Jews did descend from Abraham's line through Isaac and Jacob, but Abraham himself was not a Jew. If the fact that the Jews descended from Abraham makes him a Jew then I guess everyone that Abraham descended from were also Jews. That would include Adam, Eve, Noah and his wife, and many others. But the Jews did not originate with Adam, Noah or Abraham, they originated with the tribe of Judah, who was Abraham's great grandson. That is a fact. Why take offense to something that is factual?

Well looking back on it, I do appear to have gone overboard with my attitude, and feel bad that I got so emotionally riled. I just have honestly-deep feelings about the way Jews have been treated.

I've been looking into this for many years, and read a book called, "The Fall and Rise of Israel" many years ago. It went into the entire history of the Jewish People, and it didn't always shine a good light on Christians.

Anyway, the brother I was talking about this turns out to be very kind towards Israel and the Jewish People, and was just discussing his theology, which I view as "Replacement Theology" (sorry that the term offends you). And I do respect that position and have held that position myself in the very distant past.

For those who don't know, some view this label as misleading, and not representative of the position they hold. Generally, it is that God used the Jewish race temporarily, but only with a mind to eventually produce a non-racial entity, the Church. The Jewish People have no further place in prophetic history. The Church now holds the place of preeminence that Israel once held in the OT era.

Anyway, we all know Abraham was not, technically, a Jew, since the Jews are named after Judah, who was a great grandson of Abraham. They were not even called Jews until centuries after the tribe of Judah formed.

So we know these things--at least most of us know it. What concerns me about those who say this is that some wish to dismiss any notion that Israel's purpose was from God, that being Jewish has very little value in God's program of redemption.

I take issue with that if it leads to an excessive criticism of the Jewish People, leading to a form of antisemitism. In my view, the Jews should be given compassion, after centuries of maltreatment and suffering God's punishment.

 

[Timtofly]

Unbelieving Jews are natural branches - then and now, who have been broken off from the Olive tree, whose root is Christ. By natural branches Paul was and still is (because his epistles are still valid today) talking only about about the genetic descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - those who can trace their physical ancestry back to the patriarchs, a.k.a "Israel" (Israel according to the flesh), or "the Jews".

Jews who have been born into Jewish non-Christian families and who have become saved as adults, are natural branches that have been grafted back into the Olive tree again.

Non-Jews who come to Christ are grafted in among the remnant of the natural branches who believe.

Jews who come to Christ are grafted back into their own Olive tree again.

According to the words chosen by Paul - not by me, or by Timtofly

Unbelieving Jews and believing Jews are Israel according to the flesh, but unbelieving Jews are broken off from Israel, i.e from God's elect, because God's elect - His chosen - is Christ, and those who are in Him through faith in Him.

If everyone is a natural branch, then they are born already redeemed. No need for the second birth at all.

The point is that there were no natural branches after the Cross, because there is no difference between Israel and the rest of humanity. The change was that Israel was no longer natural branches. So when the Second Coming happens, Israel will once more be natural branches.

It really does not matter about physical descendants. God knows who is who. You all can argue over physical descendants all you want, because it seems both sides of the issue are missing the point. Those already dead are not going to come back as physical descendants of any one.


The Church is not on the earth during the Millennium. There will be a physical Israel, and they will continue the line of Jacob. That is on the earth. There is no national distinction in Paradise, and that is how the church always existed as, without that distinction. Revelation 7:9

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

Many here keep claiming there is no distinction in this church body. Why would that change at the Second Coming? Why do many keep calling the church Israel, when that is a distinction from the rest of the nations? We are in Christ, not in Jacob. Especially once we get to Paradise.

 

[Zao is life]

not in Jacob. Especially once we get to Paradise.

Christ is in Jacob according to the flesh. Jesus is the son of David, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob.

Jesus sits on the throne of David forever. David was a Jew. Jesus was born a Jew.

In Jacob's seed there were always many Gentiles too - all the tribes listed in the OP of this thread, who were not Jews.

Ephraim and Manasseh, Joseph's children, were not Jews either.

So there are lot's of non-Jews in Jacob.

And if you are in Christ in the Spirit, then you are in Jacob.

If you are not in Christ, then even if your genetic ancestry can be traced through Judah or Benjamin or Levi back to Jacob (for those who are Jews), then you are broken off from Jacob (Israel) through your unbelief, despite your genetic ancestry being traced through Judah or Benjamin or Levi back to Jacob.

Paul's doctrine. Not the doctrine of so-called "Replacement Theologists".​