Not to mention at least 50 million dead. Estimates of the Number Killed by the Papacy in the Middle Ages and Later (worthyofpraise.org)
No Denomination named... Evidence Presented... You Decide
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Highly pertinent to this thread, is the following conversation between 2 Seventh Day Adventists discussing the
- current powerful movement in the USA of Christian nationalism,
- the separation of church and state and
- the move to have a constitutional convention in order to make amendments,
- The current so called "great awakening",
- It's connection to the"Great Reset",
- And under whose authority all of this is taking place...
Ronald David Bruno
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Tragedies and injustices happened in the past. You cannot blame sins of people hundreds if years ago on the present generation. Or do you think we should pay reporations to all African Americans? Judgments from sins of parents and sometimes grandparents are passed down for generations. But the judgements are up to God. HE IS SOVEREIGN AND ALLOWS EVIL FOR A PURPOSE. As a matter of fact, He decides how long our lives will be and in what manner we will go. So He kills everyone when their time comes. He takes them home or sends them to Hades while they await their final judgment. Everyone died in history. The reprobate are not redeemable. We don't know who they are but God does. They serve their purpose and are taken when He chooses to. What may seem like tragedies to us is all part of His perfect plan - unless you don't think He is in control.
Those injustices took place because of the corrupt policies of that particular institution, and the teachings that inspired those policies, particularly from renowned "doctors" of the church such as Augustine and Aquinas. We can justifiably place the responsibility at the feet of the modern institution because those policies are not only still in place, the "doctors" are as revered and honored today as they were 1500 years ago, their teachings included in canon law. That the particular institution doesn't actually practise the barbarism of her predecessors due to current inclement circumstances, doesn't make her less guilty seeing she never renounced those practises nor discarded the teachings and principles that undergirded them.
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Give them a break, there is forgiveness or haven't you picked up on Jesus' teaching on that?
God forgave those who repented and judged those who didn't. Who are you to judge?
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When we see God dishonored, we ought not to remain quiet, but should do and say all that we can to lead others to see that the God of heaven is not to be thought of as a common man, but as the Infinite One, the One worthy of man's highest reverence. Let us present God's Word in its purity, and lift up the voice in warning against everything that would dishonor our heavenly Father. I am not judging anyone. I am merely pointing out that the Catholic Church still believes it has the right to rule over the consciences of men, and employ whatever means at their disposal to enforce their dogmas and doctrines on others. This dishonors God. And I will not give the institution a break. I hold nothing against the common people. They simply don't know. But they need to know. They need to come out.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
The annabaptist were reformers? Are you saying America would be French instead of German?
The Reformers were Reformers. Who else?
I'm not saying anything. What are you saying?
Timtofly
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Truth7t7
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Ronald David Bruno
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You can't prevent them from believing that. That belief is their handicap. Whatever injustices or sins that are perpetrated by the Catholic Church or anyone else grieves the Spirit. And when you grieve the Spirit, he chastises you,. He may withhold blessings and/or it could cause you to be stagnant in your spiritual growth. God takes care of all that, we don't. What you sow is what you reap and that spiritual principle applies to all of us.
ewq1938
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And yet not one single prophet in the entire bible was shown that as happening in the future, not one. That should bother you but it won't.
Some insight into the way Revelation 13 is to be accurately translated can be helpful, for the word "him" concerning "the wild beast" is not accurate, and why not ? Because the Greek word autos at Revelation 13 is in the neuter sense, being neither masculine nor feminine, so that it is properly translated as "it", and especially since also "wild beast" is neuter in gender.(Note: "the wild beast" at Revelation 13:1-10 represents Satan's entire political system, while "the wild beast" at Revelation 13:11-18 is the 7th [and last] world power of secular and Bible history [see Rev 17:9, 10], the Anglo/American world power, with the United States taking center stage on the world scene)
For example, Revelation 13:5 accurately reads: "It (Greek autos, being a personal pronoun, dative case, singular, neuter) was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it (Greek autos, and same as the beginning of verse 5) was given authority to act for 42 months."(New World Translation)
It is interesting that "death" at verse 3 is masculine while "months" at verse 5 is feminine, being in the plural, like a mother with her children, while "the dragon" is masculine, so that the word "he" would fit, though the word "it" is often used, for the "dragon" is not seen as either male of female. When the King James Bible was published in 1611, its translators had no real understanding of the five cases in Koine Greek, the nominative case, accusative case, dative case, vocative case and genitive case.
A Digital Tutorial for Ancient Greek wrote, under the subheading "Lesson 3. Nouns. - Introductory", that "in English, readers rely on the order in which words appear in a sentence to indicate the grammatical function of each word. In ancient Greek, their case tells the reader the grammatical function of each word in the sentence."
So, at Revelation 13:7, there is no "him", but rather it accurately reads: "It (Greek autos, singular, neuter, pointing to the "wild beast" that is also neuter) was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it (Greek autos, singular, neuter) was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation."(New World Translation)
And of the "antichrists" (which means "against (or instead of ) Christ"), practically no one reads 1 John 2:18, 19 carefully, for the apostle John wrote: "Young children, it is the last hour (last hour of what ?, of just before the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians begin to flourish after the John as the last apostle dies, see Matt 13:24-30), and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us (or came from within true Christianity, and became apostates), but they were not of our sort (having rejected "the truth" in favor of their own doctrines, see 2 Tim 4:3, 4, such as the Trinity [see Deut 6:4], hellfire [see Jer 32:35], immortality of the soul [see Matt 10:28; Acts 3:23], a clergy-laity class [see Matt 23:8-10], the cross [see Deut 21:22, 23; Gal 3:13], Christmas [see Ecc 7:1], Easter [see Luke 22:19, 20], purgatory [see Ps 115:17], birthdays [see Matt 14:1-11], etc); for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us (or remained as true Christians). But they went out (from the Christian congregation of "holy ones", see Acts 20:29, 30) so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."
So, what did the "antichrists" develop into ? Christendom with its "Holy Trinity", supplanting true Christianity for some 1,800 years, that now has some 41,000 different sects and denominations, according to 2010 Atlas of Global Christianity.
And what is to happen to Christendom ? Revelation 17:16, 17 describes it, with Christendom being a major player of Babylon the Great (Rev 17:5), so that the political "ten horns" (Rev 17:12) or member nations of the United Nations (or "scarlet-colored wild beast", Rev 17:3) will completely "burn her up with fire", making sure that the false religions of the world that includes Christendom, will be forever destroyed.(Rev 19:1-3)
For example, Revelation 13:5 accurately reads: "It (Greek autos, being a personal pronoun, dative case, singular, neuter) was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it (Greek autos, and same as the beginning of verse 5) was given authority to act for 42 months."(New World Translation)
It is interesting that "death" at verse 3 is masculine while "months" at verse 5 is feminine, being in the plural, like a mother with her children, while "the dragon" is masculine, so that the word "he" would fit, though the word "it" is often used, for the "dragon" is not seen as either male of female. When the King James Bible was published in 1611, its translators had no real understanding of the five cases in Koine Greek, the nominative case, accusative case, dative case, vocative case and genitive case.
A Digital Tutorial for Ancient Greek wrote, under the subheading "Lesson 3. Nouns. - Introductory", that "in English, readers rely on the order in which words appear in a sentence to indicate the grammatical function of each word. In ancient Greek, their case tells the reader the grammatical function of each word in the sentence."
So, at Revelation 13:7, there is no "him", but rather it accurately reads: "It (Greek autos, singular, neuter, pointing to the "wild beast" that is also neuter) was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it (Greek autos, singular, neuter) was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation."(New World Translation)
And of the "antichrists" (which means "against (or instead of ) Christ"), practically no one reads 1 John 2:18, 19 carefully, for the apostle John wrote: "Young children, it is the last hour (last hour of what ?, of just before the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians begin to flourish after the John as the last apostle dies, see Matt 13:24-30), and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us (or came from within true Christianity, and became apostates), but they were not of our sort (having rejected "the truth" in favor of their own doctrines, see 2 Tim 4:3, 4, such as the Trinity [see Deut 6:4], hellfire [see Jer 32:35], immortality of the soul [see Matt 10:28; Acts 3:23], a clergy-laity class [see Matt 23:8-10], the cross [see Deut 21:22, 23; Gal 3:13], Christmas [see Ecc 7:1], Easter [see Luke 22:19, 20], purgatory [see Ps 115:17], birthdays [see Matt 14:1-11], etc); for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us (or remained as true Christians). But they went out (from the Christian congregation of "holy ones", see Acts 20:29, 30) so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort."
So, what did the "antichrists" develop into ? Christendom with its "Holy Trinity", supplanting true Christianity for some 1,800 years, that now has some 41,000 different sects and denominations, according to 2010 Atlas of Global Christianity.
And what is to happen to Christendom ? Revelation 17:16, 17 describes it, with Christendom being a major player of Babylon the Great (Rev 17:5), so that the political "ten horns" (Rev 17:12) or member nations of the United Nations (or "scarlet-colored wild beast", Rev 17:3) will completely "burn her up with fire", making sure that the false religions of the world that includes Christendom, will be forever destroyed.(Rev 19:1-3)
ewq1938
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Trinitarianism is true Christianity. Trinity-deniers are usually not. Those are antichrists. Don't listen to anyone who says "Christendom" is a false religion while claiming to be a Christian. The outward appearance of a Christian can be a disguise. Know them by how they attack Christianity.
Well, the reformers didn't invent the gospel. Martin Luther found understanding while reading a passage from Romans. Anyone capable of reading and desiring to understand scripture could've done the same and some still do.
I was raised Catholic, abandoned that religion at the age of 13, and believed the gospel at 39. I eventually was baptized as an adult in a community Baptist church, and eventually became a member at another. In these Baptist Churches as well as others that I attended, the congregations were nearly 50% former Catholic. If the pope were Antichrist, wouldn't I and all those hundreds, if not thousands of former Catholics in New Jersey still be Catholic?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Luther's 95 Theses was mostly criticizing the Clergy in the Catholic Church for indulgences, in essence tickets to heaven, and over stepping their power and influence. I never picked up on and the Reformers viewed Catholic Church as antichrists or the Pope as an apostate as Covenantee stated. They certainly needed corrections. And soon, because of the Reformers and split from the Church, they stopped those practices. Why, they were guilty. But who said the clergy at that time were against Christ??? The division came because Chrustuans wanted to freely worship God and live by what the Bible said, and not be controlled by the Pope. Too much power and influence for one person to have. Popes weren't vicars of Christ, no one is. We are all priests and ambassadors on different spiritual levels.
Anyways, it is just like changing churches as we do if we don't like that Pastor or disagree with the doctrines taught. The Pilgrams came to the New World to worship freely but Catholics came too.
Forgiveness is key. Hate, anger and animosity can work in the soul like a disease and take away your grace, love,, peace, mercy and joy in the Lord.
At the same time, when those theses were posted, Luther was fully Catholic. He had not rejected Purgatory, indulgences, nor the power of the priests and pope to grant them. He was a long way from being a Protestant at that time. He was simply addressing the abuses of that whole system, not the falsity and unbiblical teaching and practice.
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