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Aunty Jane

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If you look back at my response you would see that there were 2 questions: Would you agree that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth? Do you believe that you should adhere to the decisions of the church?

Per your request I will narrow that down to a specific question. Scripture says that the church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Do you believe that you should adhere to the decisions of the church?

Patient Mary
Can I add a comment here “Patient Mary”?

Who in your assumption are “the church”? Whose decisions are you actually following?

If the “weeds” that Jesus warned about, are in fact that apostate “church”, which Jesus said was sown by the devil after the first century, then why would we accept anything they taught?.....because none of the “doctrines” of your church come from the Bible......not a single one.

Is this something new? What did Jesus say about the religious leaders of his own religion..?
After demonstrating how they had corrupted God’s word, he said to the Pharisees...

“....To uphold your tradition you have made God’s word null and void. You hypocrites! How rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ” (NCB)

There is your precedent.....the religion that originated at Mount Sinai with their forefathers, was not the one practised by the Pharisees...they had been corrupted by the adoption of man-made doctrines, which made their worship “null and void”.....and their worship was “in vain”.
 
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Marymog

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Can I add a comment here “Patient Mary”?

Who in your assumption are “the church”? Whose decisions are you actually following?

If the “weeds” that Jesus warned about, are in fact that apostate “church”, which Jesus said was sown by the devil after the first century, then why would we accept anything they taught?.....because none of the “doctrines” of your church come from the Bible......not a single one.

Is this something new? What did Jesus say about the religious leaders of his own religion..?
After demonstrating how they had corrupted God’s word, he said to the Pharisees...

“....To uphold your tradition you have made God’s word null and void. You hypocrites! How rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ” (NCB)

There is your precedent.....the religion that originated at Mount Sinai with their forefathers, was not the one practised by the Pharisees...they had been corrupted by the adoption of man-made doctrines, which made their worship “null and void”.....and their worship was “in vain”.
Hello Jane,

The Church are the leaders of Christianity, and those leaders are the successors to the Apostles. It's called Apostolic Succession of which is written about in Scripture and historical Christian writings. The first decision that was made by The Church (the leaders of Christianity) that was binding upon all Christians is documented in Acts 15. Those men that made that binding decision trained/taught and anointed their successors (of which is written about in Scripture and historical Christian writings) all throughout the known world. Those men then trained/taught and anointed their successors and then those men trained/taught and anointed their successors and then those men trained/taught and anointed their successors etc etc etc. and this will go on for eternity. Your Protestant men broke from The Church which means they broke from Apostolic Succession which means they left The Church. You and your ilk believe that The Church, of which Christ said the gates of hell will not prevail against, WAS divided and destroyed by the gates of hell (Satan) and the Truth stopped being taught a long time ago. You and your ilk believe that denomination X has some truths and denomination Y has some truths and Protestant reformer B taught some truth but Protestant reformer A had MORE truth than reformer B even though both of them got some truths wrong YOU know the truth. Can you now see how Scripturally and historically wrong you and your ilk are? For you to say that "not a single one" of the doctrines of The Catholic Church "come from the Bible" is ludicrous and uneducated simply because there are many Protestant doctrines that are the same as Catholic doctrines.

It seems to me you are accusing the Catholic Church of unbiblical "man-made doctrines" yet you follow the man-made doctrines that were made by your men. :jest: Even if you didn't follow any man and you made up your own doctrines while sitting in your basement reading Scripture and interpreting it for yourself you would still be following a man which is.......YOU! :gd

Mary
 
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GodsGrace

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Hello Jane,

The Church are the leaders of Christianity, and those leaders are the successors to the Apostles. It's called Apostolic Succession of which is written about in Scripture and historical Christian writings. The first decision that was made by The Church (the leaders of Christianity) that was binding upon all Christians is documented in Acts 15. Those men that made that binding decision trained/taught and anointed their successors (of which is written about in Scripture and historical Christian writings) all throughout the known world. Those men then trained/taught and anointed their successors and then those men trained/taught and anointed their successors and then those men trained/taught and anointed their successors etc etc etc. and this will go on for eternity. Your Protestant men broke from The Church which means they broke from Apostolic Succession which means they left The Church. You and your ilk believe that The Church, of which Christ said the gates of hell will not prevail against, WAS divided and destroyed by the gates of hell (Satan) and the Truth stopped being taught a long time ago. You and your ilk believe that denomination X has some truths and denomination Y has some truths and Protestant reformer B taught some truth but Protestant reformer A had MORE truth than reformer B even though both of them got some truths wrong YOU know the truth. Can you now see how Scripturally and historically wrong you and your ilk are? For you to say that "not a single one" of the doctrines of The Catholic Church "come from the Bible" is ludicrous and uneducated simply because there are many Protestant doctrines that are the same as Catholic doctrines.

It seems to me you are accusing the Catholic Church of unbiblical "man-made doctrines" yet you follow the man-made doctrines that were made by your men. :jest: Even if you didn't follow any man and you made up your own doctrines while sitting in your basement reading Scripture and interpreting it for yourself you would still be following a man which is.......YOU! :gd

Mary
Haven't been following this thread but what you've stated in your last paragraph is what I've said countless times and is 100% correct.

Sone persons are following MEN instead of the teachings of those that knew Jesus and taught others about what Jesus taught.
Those that follow persons like
Joseph Smith
Charles Russell
Ellen White
John Calvin
etc.

are NOT following what the Apostles taught, but NEW teachings that have come about very recently and are a DIFFERENT GOSPEL,,,

So, yes, amusing stuff.
 

Marymog

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“....To uphold your tradition you have made God’s word null and void. You hypocrites! How rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ” (NCB)
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
 

amigo de christo

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Haven't been following this thread but what you've stated in your last paragraph is what I've said countless times and is 100% correct.

Sone persons are following MEN instead of the teachings of those that knew Jesus and taught others about what Jesus taught.
Those that follow persons like
Joseph Smith
Charles Russell
Ellen White
John Calvin
etc.

are NOT following what the Apostles taught, but NEW teachings that have come about very recently and are a DIFFERENT GOSPEL,,,

So, yes, amusing stuff.
verily verily i say unto thee , ye forgot to make mention of the unholy sea and the mother of all abominations .
Who has sold Christ out for power and for to rule over the merged religoins as one .
You started the list real good and strong
but forgot to include Their mother . THEY WILL ALL MERGE as one under her as will the false relgioins with them .
heed not and never heed her call . For the call of the wellfavored harlot is but a call of death leading only to the second death .
ye shall know her and her children by their call to unify , to hear the ecumenical cry of the lets be one
that also now even merges in with the false religoins under her guise of interfaith . The ho sleeps not
and we want no part of her cup of fornication .
 
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Aunty Jane

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Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
And therein lies the dilemma.....what “oral traditions” were these? And will we find them and the principles upon which they were based, in the Scriptures? If not...then they don’t belong.
 

Aunty Jane

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The Church are the leaders of Christianity, and those leaders are the successors to the Apostles. It's called Apostolic Succession of which is written about in Scripture and historical Christian writings.
The Catholic church is the only one that hammers that false assumption. There was no apostolic succession that resulted in your line of Popes....there was no pope in first century Christianity.
The first decision that was made by The Church (the leaders of Christianity) that was binding upon all Christians is documented in Acts 15. Those men that made that binding decision trained/taught and anointed their successors (of which is written about in Scripture and historical Christian writings) all throughout the known world.
If this was the circumcision issue, then yes, the question as to whether gentiles were under obligation to observe the Law of Moses, was settled by the elders and the apostles in Jerusalem. All done biblically and prayerfully, under the guidance of the holy spirit.
Those men then trained/taught and anointed their successors and then those men trained/taught and anointed their successors and then those men trained/taught and anointed their successors etc etc etc. and this will go on for eternity.
I wish that was true, but as Jesus and the apostles warned, men would infiltrate the congregations and lead them away from the truth....creating all manner of false doctrines, and passing them off as “Christian” teachings. The Catholic church is full of them. The people had no way to determine if what the church taught was the truth...no one was allowed access to the Bible so that like the ancient Boereans, they couldn’t check the Scriptures out for themselves and had to swallow everything the church said....under pain of death it seems.
Your Protestant men broke from The Church which means they broke from Apostolic Succession which means they left The Church. You and your ilk believe that The Church, of which Christ said the gates of hell will not prevail against, WAS divided and destroyed by the gates of hell (Satan) and the Truth stopped being taught a long time ago.
I hold no Protestant views. Protestantism simply broke the power of the tyrannical church, drunk with its own power...but at the very least it shed the more ludicrous doctrines such as the adoration of Mary whom they made into “the mother of God”...something never even mentioned in the Bible. She was never a mediatrix, nor was she ever blessed as immaculately conceived.....the list is a long one. All of them false.
It seems to me you are accusing the Catholic Church of unbiblical "man-made doctrines" yet you follow the man-made doctrines that were made by your men.
There are no man-made doctrines.....unless you care to list some? I’m sure I can enlighten you....all are soundly scripturally based. I can find all my beliefs in the Bible, but I don’t think you can.....there is a reason for that.
 
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Marymog

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The Catholic church is the only one that hammers that false assumption. There was no apostolic succession that resulted in your life of Popes....there was no pope in first century Christianity.

Since you don't believe in Apostolic Succession you are admitting that YOUR denomination did not succeed from the Apostles. If your denomination did not succeed from the Apostles then you are following a false teacher. That is brave of you to admit that.........
 

Marymog

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If this was the circumcision issue, then yes, the question as to whether gentiles were under obligation to observe the Law of Moses, was settled by the elders and the apostles in Jerusalem. All done biblically and prayerfully, under the guidance of the holy spirit.
And your theory is that after the last Apostle died (John) that The Church was no longer guided by the Holy Spirit?
 

Marymog

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I wish that was true, but as Jesus and the apostles warned, men would infiltrate the congregations and lead them away from the truth....creating all manner of false doctrines, and passing them off as “Christian” teachings. The Catholic church is fill of them. The people had no way to determine if what the church taughtvwas the truth...no one was allowed access to the Bible so that like the ancient Boereans, they couldn’t check the Scriptures out for themselves and had to swallow everything the church said....under pain of death it seems.
Hey, you finally got it right. SOME men led SOME people away from The Church and into false doctrines. That means there was still a church that did not teach false doctrines. Your theory is that the church that continued to teach TRUE doctrine disappeared and not a single church continued to teach the Truth. Hence, that is why you are Protestant.
 

Marymog

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There are no man-made doctrines.....unless you care to list some? I’m sure I can enlighten you....all are soundly scripturally based. I can find all my beliefs in the Bible, but I don’t think you can.....there is a reason for that.
YOU are the one who said, "they had been corrupted by the adoption of man-made doctrines," NOW you are saying there are no man made doctrines? :IDK:

It is Scripturally based that the bread/wine are His body/blood just like Scripture says and that we must eat his body and drink his blood (john 6:53-58)

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This IS My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Give us this day our daily bread.......


Do you agree with that Jane?

Curious Mary
 

Aunty Jane

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Sone persons are following MEN instead of the teachings of those that knew Jesus and taught others about what Jesus taught.
Those that follow persons like
Joseph Smith
Charles Russell
Ellen White
John Calvin
etc.

are NOT following what the Apostles taught, but NEW teachings that have come about very recently and are a DIFFERENT GOSPEL,,,
Now, if Jesus taught that “weeds” would be sown in “the world” by “the devil”, to “grow along” with the “wheat”....what is his favourite tactic.....? Imitation....he creates counterfeits, with just a few drops of truth to make them sound authentic.

How do you confuse people?...if you have held them captive through fear for a very long time, and now they see that they have been duped, how do you continue to fool them.....you give them too many choices. Protestantism was born to do just that. So neither are the work of God, but the work of his adversary ....which hasn’t changed because humans are so easy to fool. He can count on their ignorance....and their laziness. They want someone to know it all for them...and just spoon feed them what they want to hear.....the truth, as Jesus presented it, was confronting, as it should be. It has the same effect today.

Just as in Jesus’ day, there were sects of Judaism that divided people, so in this “time of the end” the devil has had a field day with false religion, adding no end of self-proclaimed leaders with unscriptural teachings that all contradict one another.

Once the power of the RCC was broken.....those not ensnared by the maIn players, he ensnared by producing many more counterfeits....all sound good until you examine their doctrines scripturally.

The original Gospel was not taught by “the church” who imitated apostate Judaism and adopted all manner of man-made doctrines. We all know what they are, and that none of them originate from Christ’s teachings, or the teachings of the apostles. Theirs was the “new gospel” but the people could not check the authenticity of anything because they were forbidden access to the Scriptures.

If you accept Christendom’s doctrines, then you have no idea where your own beliefs originated.

You seem to ignore what history teaches about “the church” and its unchristian activities and doctrines....from the second century onward. It’s not really “new”....it’s been around for centuries. Hidden in darkness...but the truth was to come to light at the time of Christ’s return. This is the time.

God doesn’t forget.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Since you don't believe in Apostolic Succession you are admitting that YOUR denomination did not succeed from the Apostles. If your denomination did not succeed from the Apostles then you are following a false teacher. That is brave of you to admit that.........
I am not admitting that at all....since the teachings of the apostles were recorded for our benefit in Scripture....all we need to know is in the Bible.....just not in “the chuch’s” false interpretation of scripture.

And your theory is that after the last Apostle died (John) that The Church was no longer guided by the Holy Spirit?
If Jesus says at the coming judgment, that he “NEVER KNEW” the majority of those who acknowledge him as their “Lord”, then my guess is that those “many” are going to be very disappointed at his stinging rejection. (Matt 7:21-23)
“Never” means “not ever”...so in answer to your question....”NO”. How can God’s spirit guide apostasy?

YOU are the one who said, "they had been corrupted by the adoption of man-made doctrines," NOW you are saying there are no man made doctrines? :IDK:

It is Scripturally based that the bread/wine are His body/blood just like Scripture says and that we must eat his body and drink his blood (john 6:53-58)

And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This IS My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Give us this day our daily bread.......


Do you agree with that Jane?
I think you need to read the whole chapter of John 6 and get the gist of what Jesus was actually saying...not what the church suggests that he was saying since he was a Jew, addressing Jews and what he was suggesting was biblically and physically repugnant. Would Jesus tell his fellow Jews to break God’s law?
I don’t think so....
If Peter was told to slaughter and eat unclean animals (according to the Law of Moses) and he found that repugnant, imagine if Jesus words had been literal! Thoroughly disgusting!

Jesus said his words were “spirit and life”...not to be taken literally at all. (John 6:63)

In the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus is talking about literal bread...a staple of the day....not enough to last a week or a month, but just for that day.....grateful for the provision of something to eat.
 

Jack

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If Jesus says at the coming judgment, that he “NEVER KNEW” the majority of those who acknowledge him as their “Lord”, then my guess is that those “many” are going to be very disappointed at his stinging rejection.
So, what will happen to them Aunty? Don't know? Of course you don't! All you know is what the WatchTower told you!
 
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GodsGrace

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Now, if Jesus taught that “weeds” would be sown in “the world” by “the devil”, to “grow along” with the “wheat”....what is his favourite tactic.....? Imitation....he creates counterfeits, with just a few drops of truth to make them sound authentic.
Yes Ma'am.
And the JWs fall into the category you have just explained.

As do all those other MAN-MADE religions I posted.
How do you confuse people?...if you have held them captive through fear for a very long time,
Fear.
Right.
Try leaving the JWs and see what happens to you.
THIS is fear....
you're not even free to leave the religion and you must go door to door to get converts.

You have your own version of the bible and do not even believe that Jesus is God and yet you call yourself a Christian.
You don't even believe in baptism and Jesus commanded His followers to be baptized...this was one of the orders He left the Apostles.
and now they see that they have been duped, how do you continue to fool them.....you give them too many choices. Protestantism was born to do just that. So neither are the work of God, but the work of his adversary ....which hasn’t changed because humans are so easy to fool.
That includes YOU Auntie Jane.
Have YOU been fooled?
Why are you following a religion that was invented 200 years ago?ù

He can count on their ignorance....and their laziness. They want someone to know it all for them...and just spoon feed them what they want to hear.....the truth, as Jesus presented it, was confronting, as it should be. It has the same effect today.
Let's be honest for a minute.
Should we all be theologians?
Do you believe you're saved because you study the bible day and night and learn how to respond to every objection that a Christian might bring up?
Just as in Jesus’ day, there were sects of Judaism that divided people, so in this “time of the end” the devil has had a field day with false religion, adding no end of self-proclaimed leaders with unscriptural teachings that all contradict one another.
Difficult to believe you're actually saying this.
You're explaining yourself and don't even know it, apparently.
Once the power of the RCC was broken.....those not ensnared by the maIn players, he ensnared by producing many more counterfeits....all sound good until you examine their doctrines scripturally.
So you're mad at the CC.
Great.
Don't join it.
Guess you had a bad experience, maybe.
And Jesus said to love our enemy....

The original Gospel was not taught by “the church” who imitated apostate Judaism and adopted all manner of man-made doctrines. We all know what they are, and that none of them originate from Christ’s teachings, or the teachings of the apostles. Theirs was the “new gospel” but the people could not check the authenticity of anything because they were forbidden access to the Scriptures.
They were not allowed access to the scriptures.
Is it better today?
Do YOU believe exactly what I believe?
Why not?
We're reading the same bible (pretty much).
So maybe the problem is that you're obeying YOUR church and I'm obeying what I've learned from churches.
Maybe we're both wrong!

If we're having a problem today when most of us are college educated -or at least finished high school...
how would a person at the beginning have known to read the bible if they couldn't even read?

And I'll be you don't know that the CC civilized Europe and started the first colleges.
Look it up. We have AI now...it's so easy.
If you accept Christendom’s doctrines, then you have no idea where your own beliefs originated.
Don't you think they originated from the bible that you said that everyone should know how to read?
You seem to ignore what history teaches about “the church” and its unchristian activities and doctrines....from the second century onward. It’s not really “new”....it’s been around for centuries. Hidden in darkness...but the truth was to come to light at the time of Christ’s return. This is the time.
You know what I ignore Aunty Jane?
That's interesting.

Nothing good ever comes from our discussions..
which is why I basically do not interact with you.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Yes Ma'am.
And the JWs fall into the category you have just explained.

As do all those other MAN-MADE religions I posted.
That is your opinion and you are free to believe whatever you wish about who we are, and what we say.....Jesus gave the Jews the same option....and the majority thought that their religious leaders were correct....and had the son of God put to death. History repeats. Don’t we need to know why?
Fear.
Right.
Try leaving the JWs and see what happens to you.
THIS is fear....
you're not even free to leave the religion and you must go door to door to get converts.
Actually it is biblical....because once you learn the truth, you cannot “unlearn” it or “unknow” it.....all you can do is ignore it.
If some individual in the congregation is blatantly breaking God’s laws as commanded by Jesus, then the congregation elders are under obligation to expel them because “a little leaven ferments the whole lump”.

This is not something done without due process......and the Internet is full of horror stories that most people believe without hearing the other side of the sob story. If our national judicial systems operated like that, who would ever get justice? One side can sound so convincing until you hear the other side....so how can people be so convinced with just one skewed side of a story? They want to believe it.

Why are the churches reluctant to act on that directive stated clearly by the apostle Paul?
1Cor 5:9-13....ESV...
“I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

What about the dissenters who want to promote their own ideas in the congregation and cause division?
John also wrote in his second letter.....
“Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.” (2 John 1:9-11 ESV)

Should you fear that punishment? Who in their right mind would not fear any punishment for wrongdoing?
Why did God have penalties under his law....even death?
You cannot “join” Jehovah’s Witnesses...like the first century Christians, you first have to learn the truth and choose to become a Christian, demonstrated then publicly by water baptism, which like Jesus, was a commitment to follow a certain course in life from that day forward. The onus is on the individual to live up to that dedication. Like a marriage, you cannot just walk away and pretend it never happened. There is due process in a divorce.

If the churches acted on those directives, how many would remain in that church? Where would the pastor get his money? Should he actually get a job and pay his own way? Or was he to become an expensive burden to the congregation? (1 Thess2:9) Paul was a tentmaker by trade and often worked to earn his own living. (Acts 18:1-4)

And who is paid to do the Lord’s work? Didn’t Jesus say...”you received free, give free”? Whatever happened to that?

You have your own version of the bible and do not even believe that Jesus is God and yet you call yourself a Christian.
You don't even believe in baptism and Jesus commanded His followers to be baptized...this was one of the orders He left the Apostles.
That has been an accusation, but to date, I have not found a single instance that was not supported by other scripture. Doctrine should not dictate how God’s word is translated......have you examined those verses for yourself? I have....because I examine everything very carefully.

I came out of Christendom, so I know what it teaches, and now I know what God’s word teaches.....”never the twain shall meet”.
When you study the Bible rather than theology, you get the whole picture, not the churches distorted version of it.
Why are you following a religion that was invented 200 years ago?
LOL.....no, sorry....I am part of a Christian brotherhood whose members go back to the first century.
What we have is a restoration of first century Christianity.....not the pathetic imitation created by the devil that engulfed the world and turned it into a sham....just as Jesus said it would.....hopelessly divided and disobedient to the teachings of the Christ. What fruitage can it boast when it ignores Christ’s most basic commands?

The religion followed by Christendom is the “invention”.....starting in the second century and slowly infiltrating to weaken Christ’s teachings, watering them down while still promoting itself as a product of Christ and his apostles....if God’s spirit was operative on those who identify as “Christians” today....there would be no divisions or dissension....all would be united....or don’t you think God’s powerful spirit can accomplish that? (1 Cor 1:10)

The “wheat” exist in the world, doing what Christ commanded.....we need to find them, but we cannot do it alone. (John 6:44; 65)
 

Aunty Jane

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Let's be honest for a minute.
Should we all be theologians?
Do you believe you're saved because you study the bible day and night and learn how to respond to every objection that a Christian might bring up?
“Let’s be honest?” I’m all for honesty...so who said we needed to be theologians?
We have the example of the ancient Boereans whom Paul commended for their thorough search of the Scriptures to make sure that what he taught them was genuine, agreeing with what God’s word taught. (Acts 17:10-12)
Did the Boereans need to be theologians in order to do that? No.....they just needed access to the Scriptures.
Who today cannot access the Bible and refer to reliable resources to check the authenticity of the translations they prefer?
God has always provided teachers for his people....we just have to be careful whom we accept as our teachers....the devil has more than Jesus does.
So you're mad at the CC.
Great.
Don't join it.
Guess you had a bad experience, maybe.
And Jesus said to love our enemy....
It has nothing to do with hatred for anyone....like God, I hate liars...the church has lied to people for centuries, pretending to be what it clearly isn’t....”a pillar and support of the truth”.....what truth would that be I wonder? That is what got me interested in studying the Bible in the first place....the churches were all over the place and I wondered who were actually telling the truth? I saw so much hypocrisy and jumping into bed with corrupt politics. We are told by Jesus to be “no part of the world”, (John 18:36) yet all through history, the church has been at the side of the political rulers, supporting their wars and bloodshed. (Isa 1:15)
Do YOU believe exactly what I believe?
Why not?
We're reading the same bible (pretty much).
So maybe the problem is that you're obeying YOUR church and I'm obeying what I've learned from churches.
Maybe we're both wrong!
Jesus will let us all know soon enough.....God is giving us all “enough rope”.....our choices determine our eternal destiny. Free will is a blessing.....for some...but a curse for others?
If we're having a problem today when most of us are college educated -or at least finished high school...
how would a person at the beginning have known to read the bible if they couldn't even read?
The Jews were not uneducated as they were taught from childhood what the Scriptures said. Attendance at the Synagogue would have imparted knowledge to them as God’s word was read to them every week.
You might recall Mary’s knowledge of Scripture as she recited many verses from memory.

Who has created the divide of clergy and laity? Who said that only “ministers” or “priests” need to go to theological colleges and seminaries to understand the Scriptures? The church did that in imitation of the Pharisees, not Jesus, who chose uneducated men to spread the gospel. He taught them to teach others....that is the way Christianity was spread.
And I'll be you don't know that the CC civilized Europe and started the first colleges.
That made me smile....define “civilized”.....according to the dictionary, it means....”at an advanced stage of social and cultural development”.....”to be polite and well mannered”.....

Now, I don’t know about you, but I fail to see how the RCC fits the description of what it means to civilize it’s subjects.....certainly not by following the teachings of Jesus Christ. The Inquisition alone was so far removed from the personality of Jesus, that it is very obvious that civility was never at the base of their activities....their aim was to control the masses by keeping them in ignorance, with threatens of torture, both in the flesh, as well as eternal torture in the flames in hell.....

Please help me understand your reasoning...because it is nothing close to my own evaluation of how it is in Christendom today, compared to how it was in the first century.....not even remotely similar.
 
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