Do you believe a thousand years equate to a certain amount of time? Do you also believe that time, whether one thousand literal years, or more has been given this Messianic Gospel age/time?
No More Death
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Do you believe a thousand years equate to a certain amount of time? Do you also believe that time, whether one thousand literal years, or more has been given this Messianic Gospel age/time?
0f course I do. That is exactly what I am saying. Our resurrection is a two stage process. First, we are spiritually reborn (quickened by His Spirit), then upon Christ's visible return from Heaven, we will be immediately changed into the likeness of His Immortality.
Paul said this of our mortal bodies,
Rom. 7[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
meaning our flesh. Therefore, having now eternal life/existence through Christ now, It is only the end of this mortal existence that the born again Christian shall pass through.
John 8:51-52, 1 John 5:12-13. For us in Jesus, it truly is world without end!
Through faith in Christ and His resurrection, being Himself the one and only resurrection into Immortality for now, we are freely given the Gift of God's Holy Spirit NOW, which is God the Father dwelling wthin Jesus. But for now, we are only having part in His resurrection, which IS Himself, THE FIRST resurrection. When Jesus comes to dwell within us now by His Spirit, He brings within Himself the Father.
Together, they are Holy Spirit, being One, dwelling within us.
God the Father needed the resurrection of Jesus, just as much as we need Him. Jesus is the true Mediator between us and the Father. Otherwise, God the Father could never live within us, which is the ultimate desire and longsuffering of His Being for us.
Heb. 10
[19] Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest (God's presence) by the blood of Jesus,
[20] By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
There is to be our bodily resurrection, the second stage of that process of our resurrection, but as to what we shall finally become, we do not yet fully know, but we shall be like Him. 1 John 3:2
David in NJ
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PEACE in the wonderful Name above all names, LORD Jesus Christ = by which we have received the Gift of Salvation - Amen
Together, as we yield ourselves, even prostrating ourselves before our LORD & Savior, we can agree on every word He has spoken.
We can agree that not one of us has Understanding that came from ourselves.
Since Truth was freely given to us from our Father - none of us here can boast.
We have been blessed by God to know Him and to receive from Him.
Therefore we have Peace and Rest when we open up the Scriptures knowing they belong to our Father in Heaven.
John did not write "as a thousand years" = this phrase is not found anywhere in Scripture.
John did record what was shown/told him by the LORD = Revelation ch20
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years
were complete.
After that(1,000 Year time period), he must be released for a brief period of time.
Time does not stop or end when the LORD Returns/Second Coming.
What does END is the ruling dominion of satan on earth and in the heavens = for a literal 1,000 years period of time.
JESUS told us this: Matt ch24
Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
"the end" is not the end of time but the end of satan's rule upon the earth and mankind.
Time = the Commanded time by God thru his 24 hour day/7 days a week literal time continues at His Coming.
Zechariah 14:16
Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, then the rain will not fall on them
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Thus says the Lord,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The Lord of hosts is His name):
“If those ordinances(rotation of the sun, moon, stars) depart
From before Me, says the Lord,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”
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David in NJ
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You haven't answered the questions I put forth to you.
When John writes a thousand years he is speaking of TIME, for which I assume you would agree a thousand years equates to TIME???
How can the thousand years begin after the resurrection of the just since these saints have already lived and reigned in this time and will not be physically resurrected until the last/seventh trumpet sounds and time for this earth shall be no longer?
Are these questions too difficult for you? Or would you just rather not answer them for whatever reason?
David in NJ
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Brother, the scripture itself, which i posted, fully answers your question of 'TIME'.
We, the Saints of Christ, have not yet entered the 1,000 Year period of time since it only begins with His Second Coming.
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy
with the brightness of His Coming.
David, I believe you posted these particular verses because you believe they support your doctrinal view. You're not eager to answer my questions directly because if you answer honestly, you would be faced with contradiction of Scripture. If a thousand years equates to time, of which it does, and John sees souls physically killed, who will not be physically resurrected until a thousand years are finished, and that will be on the last day of this age in an hour that is coming, why would John write they already LIVED and REIGNED and then physically died with Christ a thousand years if the thousand years won't begin until Christ comes again???
It's clear to me that a thousand years cannot be one thousand years to come when the saints of Christ will reign with Christ on this earth since John shows us the physically dead in Christ died in time John writes a thousand years. And that time is NOW during this Messianic Gospel age/era/time.
Not only these martyred saints John sees alive after having lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years, but also John writes of other saints "blessed and holy" who have part in the first resurrection and overcome the second death who shall reign with Christ during this same period of time John writes a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Let's address those scriptures from the spiritual view by a progressive Amillennial interpretation.
Rev. 20.
"Then I saw an angel [symbolized as Jesus] coming down from heaven [Jesus' manifestation in the flesh] with the key to the Abyss [this earth], holding in his hand a great chain [symbolism for darkness]. He seized the dragon [by His death and resurrection], that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years [already has taken place-Luke 11:21-22]
And he threw him into the Abyss, [cast out of heaven and onto the earth] shut it, and sealed it over him [having no more access to God's Throne], so that he could not deceive the nations [of the saved] until the thousand years [the Age of God's Grace, according to Jesus, has NO time limit. Mat. 24:36. However, what will end it, is when no more people will repent towards God. The Mark of the Beast will bring that about, causing the separation of the goats from the sheep].
The KJV says in 2 Peter 3
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day IS with the Lord AS a thousand years, and a thousand years [IS] as one day.
were complete.
After that(1,000 Year time period), he must be released for a brief period of time.
[The issuance of the Mark of the Beast will be that brief period of time. No more people will be repenting towards God during that. It will be the end of God's Grace at that time.]
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
This is man-centered religion and even worse is willful aggression thru man's intellect(PAI) against the Word.
Everyone needs/must submit to this Commandment - Revelation 22:18
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Everyone must humble themselves before God - Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Everyone must choose this Day whom you will serve - Luke 11:23
He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
Lol....Really? And how many Bible translations are there, having different words?
And that's all pending which Greek text that one uses to translate from, of which only compounds the problem. Talk about adding and subtracting words!!
Why don't you take some time, and compare the NIV, JW-NWT, KJV, ESV, etc., etc., and try studying with all of them!!
I had an Eight Translation, Parallel NT Bible, and nearly lost both my mind and my salvation. One can cook up and fabricate any kind of doctrine they want, with such an arsenal of scriptures at hand.
Needless to say, I literally tore it up, so that it would not fall into the hands of someone else. It was that bad!
Today, I am strictly KJV with the Textus Receptus Greek text.
ewq1938
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That isn't part of a resurrection. We are born again while physically alive. This is not one part of a multi-part process either. It is one part and done.
After we physically die, we await a physical resurrection which is one part not two.
There are two resurrections in Rev 20. This is a two part process where the first group are the saved in Christ, whom live again through resurrection. This is the first part called the first resurrection.
The rest of the dead do not resurrect until the thousand years has ended. They are the second part of the resurrection of the dead being the unsaved dead.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
I use KJV , NKJV , BSB , NASB , Strongs and Biblehub with it's many benefits.
Saved with the KJV and mostly now NKJV but always compare.
In your post you added your own words/assumptions that are not in the passage you quoted from.
i understand Revelation uses both literal and symbolic.
Example = Rev 20:1-3 is literal and it makes clear that which was symbolic = dragon/ancient serpent
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.
The Abyss is a literal place as is the great chain and the seal.
Now these things apply to a spiritual being but that does not change that they are literal.
Example: God is a Spirit, therefore we must worship Him in Spirit and Truth = Literal Spirit and Literal Truth
Example of a Literal Spiritual Place with Literal Spiritual Beings = Hebrews 12:22-24
Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels
in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
In the progressive Amillennial interpretation,
The figurative 1000 yrs. is the Age of God's Grace to all, ever since PENTECOST.
Stage 1 of 2:
All persons who have been BORN AGAIN since Pentecost, ARE RISEN WITH Christ in the moment of being born again. That is the very act of "having part in the FIRST RESURRECTION", who is Jesus, being THE FIRSTBORN from the dead.
Therefore, since most have passed on, being "delivered from the body of this death", ALL ARE ALIVE by His Spirit, being ASLEEP in Jesus, waiting to PUT ON IMMORTALITY.
Stage 2 of 2:
The FINISH of God's Grace (figurative1000 yrs.) is concluded on the very Day when Jesus Returns IN HIS IMMORTALITY from Heaven in flaming fire. Those who have been ASLEEP in Jesus (the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST**), Jesus will BRING THEM WITH HIM on that Day.**
Of a truth: **But the rest of the dead (asleep in Christ) LIVED NOT AGAIN until the figurative 1000 years (of God's Age of Grace) were FINISHED.
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ewq1938
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Or the Ascension or the cross. Either way, it's not biblical.
The 1000 years from the bible is the period the resurrected dead reign with Christ and the resurrection of the dead in Christ takes place at the second coming which is the correct timeframe of that part of Rev 20.
You can have it your way. It's no loss to me.
But.....
Jesus said this about the end: Mat. 24
[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
It will be God the Father Himself, who shall FINISH the Age of Grace that He started.
2 Peter 3
[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. [God's way of saying there is no specific time limit on His Age of Grace. But it does have an end, when no more people repent towards Him and His offer mercy and forgiveness].
[9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [of His salvation], as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
[10] But [just so you all know] the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night [suddenly]; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Nope, sorry. I don't see any 1000 years of ruling over others of only mortal flesh, in a make over, remodeled earth of more death and corruption.
Now, if you can tell me honestly, after Jesus returns from Heaven, and sets up His kingdom on earth, how it is that all the world, who took "the mark of the beast", and rejected Jesus, are going to be allowed in His kingdom? All of them, will be unrepentant people!!!
ewq1938
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LOL, as if Rev 20 isn't in your bible too. Everything you said applies to the Amill Millennium also.
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Yes, and as I did find out the hard way, Satan is the author of confusion.
I was born again by His Holy Spirit in 1975 and once was a devoted Pre-mil fan.
With so many Bible translations to pick and choose from, one can craft and fabricate anything of what one wants to hear.
I can tell you how frustrated in anguish I was over that confusion. I blamed God for being hard to know and what to believe in about His return, and who can know Him. Immediately I repented and sought His forgiveness, of which I then literally threw myself on His mercy, and vowed that I would not read anymore Christian authored books and numerous translations, but only the KJV, and that only through His Spirit. I asked that HE ALONE would teach me. And that He has done, and is still doing, these past 30 years.
I had finally come to the place of 1 Cor. 2
[5] That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God [His Holy Spirit].
Since that time of my anguish and frustration, He faithfully led me to believe in Him His Way, and not my way. I have no regrets whatsoever in how I believe today. And why should I? By the mind of Christ within me, HE Himself has led me, and not the wisdom of men, or studying through any christian authored books and other translations at all.
Thanks for listening
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You have no answer to my question of how all the takers of Mark of the beast are going to be allowed into a Pre-mil view of another 1000 years on earth, after Jesus returns in all His Glory. However, I do. They all shall be burned to a crisp, as having never been born.
ewq1938
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