Nobody Can "Let" God Do Anything.

[Garrison]

He showed me once that we are to believe ONLY, not believe mixed with doubts. One example He showed me was that if a person, in order to say, save a drowning child, runs out on top of the water ( in the same way Jesus had walked on it ), while that persons faith is solid, so is the 'substance' that the person is 'walking/running on', but doubts are like punching little holes in the substance and once enough holes are there, they sink.....Heb 11:1......."NOW faith is the substance of the things hoped ( eagerly expected ) for, the evidence of things not yet seen." In my experience something described as 'substance' and 'evidence' , is not some airy fairy thing, but something REAL, and it was obviously real enough for Jesus to walk on ( and Peter too, till he doubted/feared ), when He walked on the water.
He also explained to me at the same time that :" Doubt is the beginning of fear." We cannot stop the enemy from bringing doubts into our minds, but we can and should reject them instantly and replace the thought of doubt with one of faith..... I am not suggesting that I am as yet perfect in this, or in any other thing to do with our life with/in Him, but I sure do love the way He can explain a thing to me, so that I can understand it, not being a learned person .... Be blessed always :)

That is all? That is the big help "tongues" has been for you? You merely reiterated what is given in Scripture.

BTW, whenever tongues are narrated in Scripture, they are never for a discrete and personally directed purpose. When tongues in Scripture are enacted, they are always part of a momentous event seen and experienced by all those present.

 

[pia]

need to understand nobody here cares about what you "can't help but think."

Since you are new here, I guess we will all have to let you comment 'slide', but if you had spent any time reading the posts 'ByGrace' put up on this forum, you would not come out with such a venomous comment right off the bat.
By the way, do not take it upon yourself to speak for me, as to what I may or may not care about, in relation to what someone else thinks...Personally I have received many many wise words from the posts of this person, and surely we can all learn things from one another.
I do hope you will take a little time to get to 'know' the people you are going to comment to and about. There are enough people on this forum already who seem to take delight in putting everyone else down...

 

[Garrison]

Since you are new here, I guess we will all have to let you comment 'slide', but if you had spent any time reading the posts 'ByGrace' put up on this forum, you would not come out with such a venomous comment right off the bat.
By the way, do not take it upon yourself to speak for me, as to what I may or may not care about, in relation to what someone else thinks...Personally I have received many many wise words from the posts of this person, and surely we can all learn things from one another.
I do hope you will take a little time to get to 'know' the people you are going to comment to and about. There are enough people on this forum already who seem to take delight in putting everyone else down...

No!
You are obviously one of those legalists that want every i dotted and every t crossed.
I might as well quote- Jack and Jill went up the hill. ..and you'd find some argument.
I am much more interested in "the things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue." That is what moves us forward in our life and relationship with God..not nit-picking scriptures.
Maybe you should have put your thread in the Debate Forum and not in the Fellowship Forum.
I won't debate..it is fruitless , every one of us can cherry pick a verse here and a verse there just to prove 'our' point.
...Have at it...

Please confine your ad hominem to yourself. Forum Rules require comments to be upon the topic at hand, and if you make claims about yourself, then I will question you about the validity of those claims.

This is not a chat and share subforum. Jesus never chatted.

 

[Stranger]

"Superior?" Did you want me to be as you are?

You still have not said if you consider "all" of the writings of David and Paul when you cite those two people. Do you not know if you do? Yet, you readily told me to do so.

Was that an academically permissible statement from you? Tell me, do you use the Cultural/Historic Hermeneutic, so simple and popular today to employ, or do you use the Apostles' Hermeneutic as did they?

Yes, all of Davids and Paul's writings are considered.

We use the Bible, the Word of God. What do you use?

Stranger

 

[Garrison]

Yes, all of Davids and Paul's writings are considered.

We use the Bible, the Word of God. What do you use?

Stranger

Not so. It is not humanly possible to integrate all of David's and Paul's writings when speaking of either of them. Did you speak the truth when you said you did do that?

For instance, did you integrate 1 Cor. 7:12 where Paul states, "Speak I, not the Lord?" Integration of that would require stating The Canon of The NT contains both Paul's word and God's Word.

When considering David's assertion in Psalm 119:103, "How sweet are Thy [God's] Words," referring to the Mosaic Law, do you think as well how Paul declares in 2 Cor. 3:6 "The written law brings death?"

I have given you two examples of how you personally cannot "consider" all of David's and Paul's writings when citing either man.

Tell me which hermeneutic you use, The Cultural/Historic, as do modern talkers, or The Apostles' Hermeneutic, as did your exemplars and founders of The Church? Perhaps you might reign in your promotions for what others should do.

 

[FHII]

Have you yourself considered "all" of David's and Paul's writings as you cite them? I

Yes. I have. I have actually read them all. And I don't charge him foolishly. He made mistakes and he acknowledged them.

Perhaps you should discontinue your cheap ad hominem remarks, and try to address the OP. "Consider all." Lol.

I chalkenged what you said and gave scripture to back it up. I did not attack you, rather I attacked what you said. You aren't unique in that. When I read something I disagree with, if moved upon I comment. It doesn't matter who you are. And I did address the OP. I commented on everything you said in the OP. I said you were short sided in your view od two verses (and gave counter scripture) and applauded what I believe to be your main point. Its really a victory for you!

 

[Stranger]

Not so. It is not humanly possible to integrate all of David's and Paul's writings when speaking of either of them. Did you speak the truth when you said you did do that?

For instance, did you integrate 1 Cor. 7:12 where Paul states, "Speak I, not the Lord?" Integration of that would require stating The Canon of The NT contains both Paul's word and God's Word.

When considering David's assertion in Psalm 119:103, "How sweet are Thy [God's] Words," referring to the Mosaic Law, do you think as well how Paul declares in 2 Cor. 3:6 "The written law brings death?"

I have given you two examples of how you personally cannot "consider" all of David's and Paul's writings when citing either man.

Tell me which hermeneutic you use, The Cultural/Historic, as do modern talkers, or The Apostles' Hermeneutic, as did your exemplars and founders of The Church? Perhaps you might reign in your promotions for what others should do.

Yes, I speak the truth. All of Paul's and David's writings are true and the Word of God.

All of (1 Cor) is the Word of God. Some of which was direct revelation to Paul. Some of which was Paul's due to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Concerning the Psalms, there is nothing wrong with the Law. The Law is holy, glorious, and good. See (1 Tim. 1:8). The problem is our inability to keep the law. So David can revere the Law as the Word of God. But that Law as Paul says, brings death. That was it's purpose.

My hermeneutic is not dictated by you. I see no need to reign in anything.

Stranger

 

[Garrison]

Not so. It is not humanly possible to integrate all of David's and Paul's writings when speaking of either of them. Did you speak the truth when you said you did do that?

For instance, did you integrate 1 Cor. 7:12 where Paul states, "Speak I, not the Lord?" Integration of that would require stating The Canon of The NT contains both Paul's word and God's Word.

When considering David's assertion in Psalm 119:103, "How sweet are Thy [God's] Words," referring to the Mosaic Law, do you think as well how Paul declares in 2 Cor. 3:6 "The written law brings death?"

I have given you two examples of how you personally cannot "consider" all of David's and Paul's writings when citing either man.

Tell me which hermeneutic you use, The Cultural/Historic, as do modern talkers, or The Apostles' Hermeneutic, as did your exemplars and founders of The Church?

Yes, I speak the truth. All of Paul's and David's writings are true and the Word of God.

All of (1 Cor) is the Word of God. Some of which was direct revelation to Paul. Some of which was Paul's due to the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Concerning the Psalms, there is nothing wrong with the Law. The Law is holy, glorious, and good. See (1 Tim. 1:8). The problem is our inability to keep the law. So David can revere the Law as the Word of God. But that Law as Paul says, brings death. That was it's purpose.

My hermeneutic is not dictated by you. I see no need to reign in anything.

Stranger

Did you not comprehend my question? In no manner did I dictate anything to you about your hermeneutic habit. A question does not "dictate." Is that something new? Lol. "Cultural/Historic," or perhaps "Alegoric?" Not quite yet "Apostles' Hermeneutic?"

I still need to know if Paul was speaking God's Word in 1 Cor. 7:12 saying, "Speak I, not the Lord." The same question needs to be answered for 1 Cor. 7:25 and 2 Cor 8:8. Please consider those, and them get back to me. I want the definitive Truth about God's Word in The NT Canon assembled by The Catholic Church 1700 years ago, aka "The Beast." Sound good? I wholly trust you.

 

[FHII]

Did you not comprehend my question? In no manner did I dictate anything to you about your hermeneutic habit. A question does not "dictate." Is that something new? Lol. "Cultural/Historic," or perhaps "Alegoric?" Not quite yet "Apostles' Hermeneutic?"

I still need to know if Paul was speaking God's Word in 1 Cor. 7:12 saying, "Speak I, not the Lord." The same question needs to be answered for 1 Cor. 7:25 and 2 Cor 8:8. Please consider those, and them get back to me. I want the definitive Truth about God's Word in The NT Canon assembled by The Catholic Church 1700 years ago, aka "The Beast." Sound good? I wholly trust you.

I'm out. I have no desire to participate in this thread.

 

[Stranger]

Did you not comprehend my question? In no manner did I dictate anything to you about your hermeneutic habit. A question does not "dictate." Is that something new? Lol. "Cultural/Historic," or perhaps "Alegoric?" Not quite yet "Apostles' Hermeneutic?"

I still need to know if Paul was speaking God's Word in 1 Cor. 7:12 saying, "Speak I, not the Lord." The same question needs to be answered for 1 Cor. 7:25 and 2 Cor 8:8. Please consider those, and them get back to me. I want the definitive Truth about God's Word in The NT Canon assembled by The Catholic Church 1700 years ago, aka "The Beast." Sound good? I wholly trust you.

No, you don't wholly trust me.

The whole book of (1 Cor.) is the Word of God. Whether it was by Paul in his writing or by direct revelation from God or by his quoting the Old Testament. It is all the Word of God.

You gave only two hermeneutics for me to choose from. Thus you dictated. All for your purpose. But, sorry, you will not dictate to me my hermeneutic.

Stranger

 

[Garrison]

I'm out. I have no desire to participate in this thread.

I agree. You belong right where you first began.

 

[pia]

That is all? That is the big help "tongues" has been for you

Sorry, what???? Tongues???? Had no idea that is what you were referring to. I'm afraid you have completely lost me here, I don't know what exactly it is that you are getting at. So sorry that what Jesus says to us 'bores' you so ( that is all? ), but please, there is no need to become all snotty at us. You have your walk with Him and I have mine, as do others, and we are all at different places with/in Him and He has many varied ways to reach us and teach us.
There are already a couple of very venomous people on this forum, I would not like to see you add yourself to them , but of course that is entirely up to you.
As far as tongues 'helping' me, I don't think I made any reference to that on this post. However, I made a comment of believing they exist on another post.
Hope to experience peace between us :) Pia

 

[Garrison]

Actually, peace for you should not depend upon me. Agreed?

Perhaps you should try "tongues." There are a lot of ideas floated for that experience. Perhaps with your bold common sense you might be the first to get it right.

 

[pia]

Please confine your ad hominem to yourself.

Were you referring to me or to 'ByGrace' when you sent this? I have absolutely no idea what 'ad hominem' means.... Let me get this straight; You are allowed to write whatever you wish, but we are not? Is that what you are saying?

 

[pia]

Actually, peace for you should not depend upon me. Agreed?

Perhaps you should try "tongues." There are a lot of ideas floated for that experience. Perhaps with your bold common sense you might be the first to get it right.

I did experience tongues when a pastor and two other believers put hands upon me to receive the Holy Spirit at the beginning of the 1990's ( I was having a hard time trying to hide from them that I was laughing because it sounded so weird, I thought they were a little crazy ), then suddenly as we did our 'finish up' prayer, these weird sounds started coming out of my mouth for a couple of minutes, and no matter how hard I tried after, I could not reproduce the same sounds. I won't bore you with other times it has happened, I just wanted to let you know that I do believe in tongues.
Thank you for responding Pia

 

[Garrison]

I did experience tongues when a pastor and two other believers put hands upon me to receive the Holy Spirit at the beginning of the 1990's ( I was having a hard time trying to hide from them that I was laughing because it sounded so weird, I thought they were a little crazy ), then suddenly as we did our 'finish up' prayer, these weird sounds started coming out of my mouth for a couple of minutes, and no matter how hard I tried after, I could not reproduce the same sounds. I won't bore you with other times it has happened, I just wanted to let you know that I do believe in tongues.
Thank you for responding Pia

 

[Dcopymope]

Psalm 68:1 Has King David saying he is "Lett[ing] God arise." So, did God actually arise because David made that statement? Probably not. David had a history of being compulsive and humanly intuitive, learning most of His spirituality from his gross errors being judged by God.

Then there is Paul in Romans 3:4 stating, "Let God be true." As David, Paul was exuberant, but more in his verbal windage, with not much action as that which got David into trouble.

Today, there are hoards of Christians who make the statement that, somehow, they or other people should "Let God" do certain things. They base this nonsense upon these two verses above. Apparently, these Christians do not know God, in that He is Supreme over time, over matter, over small issues, over large issues, and over human outcomes. No person, regardless of how confident and spiritual they might feel, regardless of how arrogant their faith might be, can "let" God do anything.

You seem to believe that God's sovereignty over all overrides the free will that God gave us by default. The scriptures below show otherwise, that faith itself, is an act of willingly turning over our "control" per se over certain situations so that God can handle it for you. This is a matter of our free will vs the will of God.

Faith Defined:

(1 Peter 5:5-7) "Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. {6} Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: {7} Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you."

(Psalms 55:22) "Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved."

Before Jesus exercised the demon tormenting the boy in the scripture below, he asked the father of the child if he believed, because it is with faith in God that all things are possible. In other words, he had to cast this burden on the Lord, be still and know that God is who he says he is.

(Mark 9:17-29) "And one of the multitude answered and said, Master, I have brought unto thee my son, which hath a dumb spirit; {18} And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. {19} He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me. {20} And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. {21} And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. {22} And ofttimes it hath cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if thou canst do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. {23} Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. {24} And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. {25} When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. {26} And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. {27} But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose. {28} And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, Why could not we cast him out? {29} And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting."

This was no different when peter tried walking on the water to get to Jesus. It is a classic example of the old saying "let go and let God". Peter failed to "let go and let God", and the moment doubt came upon him, he fell in the water. These are prime examples of how our own free will can hamper the power of God to work within us. Its about casting all of our burdens on the Lord, to freely "let God" work by the trust or the faith we put in him. Does this apply to literally any and everything? Of course not, he didn't need anyone's faith in him to create the heavens and the earth.

(Matthew 14:25-33) "And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. {26} And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. {27} But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. {28} And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. {29} And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. {30} But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. {31} And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? {32} And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. {33} Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."

 

[Garrison]

Tongues in Scripture were no more than a sign, to The Jews in Acts 2, and to The Gentiles in Acts 11. Today, "tongues" have no power, no additional information, no prophecy, no no material function. They are nothing more than a cultural mania conferred by emotional preachers who need adherents. Agreeing with Paul's ideas about tongues does not mean Paul's teachings materially occur within a person.

 

[Garrison]

You seem to believe that God's sovereignty over all overrides the free will that God gave us by default. The scriptures below show otherwise, that faith itself, is an act of willingly turning over our "control" per se over certain situations so that God can handle it for you. This is a matter of our free will vs the will of God.

Faith Defined:



Before Jesus exercised the demon tormenting the boy in the scripture below, he asked the father of the child if he believed, because it is with faith in God that all things are possible. In other words, he had to cast this burden on the Lord, be still and know that God is who he says he is.



This was no different when peter tried walking on the water to get to Jesus. It is a classic example of the old saying "let go and let God". Peter failed to "let go and let God", and the moment doubt came upon him, he fell in the water. These are prime examples of how our own free will can hamper the power of God to work within us. Its about casting all of our burdens on the Lord, to freely "let God" work by the trust or the faith we put in him. Does this apply to literally any and everything? Of course not, he didn't need anyone's faith in him to create the heavens and the earth.

 

[FHII]

I agree. You belong right where you first began.

LOL! Ok. I repent! I have to come back for one more round!

So why would you say that? Did I offend you? Granted I questioned you and posted a rebuttal to what you said. But did I actually attact or offend you? If you disagree with me, I am not offended so long as you stay on task and at least try to give a reason. Prove me wrong if you can! I have been proven wrong before.. And recently. I was humbled by it and admitted I was wrong.

So what were you trying to say when you said, "i agree. You belong right where you first began"?

Where did I begin and why do I belong there? Did I misquote or get scripture wrong? Cause I don't remember you addressing what I was wrong about.