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And do you know of any man that does that 24hrs a day... Show me a man who says he does not sin and you will see a liar. But there is no sin in Christ, it is done paid for finished, blotted out as far as teh east is from teh west.
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That is not what it says. It says that the man who says he has no (indwelling) sin deceives himself and the truth is not in him.
But you are pitting 1 John 1:8 against 1 John 3:9 and against 1 John 3:6 w/ 1 John 2:17.
I don't think the 10 commandments address what to do if . . . there is one sandwich, and we are both hungry. Under the 10 commandments, there is no direction. But under the law of love, I give it to you.
Much love!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Let this be clear, Jesus didn't violate the Law he was charged with violating!
What he was violating was the additional rules the religious folk tacked onto the Commandments. The rules had nothing to do with God's Commandments.....they (the religious leaders) made God's Commandments burdensome when in fact they weren't.
If in fact Jesus had violated God's Commandments on just one point he would not have been without sin but as it stands Jesus was without sin in himself and on this basis he was resurrected.
It is a total twist of intent that charges Jesus with violating the Sabbath using John 5 and or Mark 2.
Let me reiterate...... it was the Pharisees that made that charge not God!
No just writing it as it is.
Being down that path far to many times, not going there again. Far to many christans claiming to be "perfect", than condemening teh rest of teh world because we dont live up to "their" standard.
God has dealt with it for good, thought teh works that Christ has done, it is finished. get over it.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Your view of the 10 Commandments is restricted marks. It was this same view that prompted the religious leaders of Jesus day to add their own views to the Commandments peddling them as if they were God's.
In regard to your sandwich illustration....consider 'thou shalt not covet'
That's wanting something that's not yours. Under the 10 Commandments, I'm fine to eat my sandwich, under love, I give it to you.
Much love!
The actual (letter of the) commandment of the sabbath day law is that you shall not do *any* work on it (read Exodus 20:10).
Yet, Jesus, in John 5:17, on the sabbath day, said, The Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Even though Jesus violate the letter of what was written in Exodus 20:10, He was still without sin.
For with a change of priesthood there was a change also in the law (Hebrews 7:12) from the letter to the spirit (Romans 7:6).
And His coming was not after a carnal commandment but after the power of an endless life (Hebrews 7:16).
Fact is, Jesus was and is Lord of the sabbath so He could redefine it according to the spirit (what God intended by it).
But the Pharisees, in abiding by the letter, were not adding to the law in saying that thou shalt not do any work on the sabbath day. For the letter of the sabbath day law said exactly that (Exodus 20:10). They were right to say that Jesus violated the letter of the sabbath.
It was also John's estimation, under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that Jesus broke the sabbath (John 5:18).
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There is a practical outworking that comes from being born again of the Holy Spirit.
God sheds abroad His love in the heart (Romans 5:5) and this love is not in word or in tongue only; but in deed and in truth (1 John 3:17-18).
How do you mean?
And you mean to compare me to pharisees adding to God's laws, claiming them as from God?
But to consider the sandwich . . . if it's your's, yes, I am not to covet it. And if it's mine, you are not to covet it. If it's mine, under the Law, I'm free to eat it. But under the Law of Love, I give it to you.
Much love!
Yes we start seeking after Christ and asking Him to teach us His truth, instead of seeking after knowledge.
[MKJV] I Corinthians 1:19
For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and I will set aside the understanding of the perceiving ones."
[MKJV] I John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given us anunderstanding so that we may know Him who is true. And we are in Him that is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and the everlasting life.
Jesus is not dead He is there for all who seek after Him.
Most definitely.
Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
And, did I say that He was dead?
Heb 4:12, For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Is ownership of the sandwich yours?....even your very breath, is that yours?
Everything that we have has been given us.......herein is the Law amplified.....herein is every facet of existence condensed into ten words
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
You are muddling things here justbyfaith. If Jesus kept the Spirit of the Law he surely kept its letter. You confuse what the religious leaders tacked onto Gods Law with God's Law.
Jesus's reference to working with his Father is in reference to the salvation of the human race, it is not in reference to violating the letter or the spirit of the Sabbath Commandment.
If you use this text as an excuse to violate the Sabbath you are on a slippery slope downwards...why? because the excuse to violate one become the excuse to violate another......if you then pull the card of 'we are not saved by keeping the law' you compound the problem and deceive yourself.
Than why don you ask Him....
[MKJV] Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
All one has to do is open ones mouth and empty them selves of themselves. If we goto Him thiking we already have teh answer than we are already filled and there is no place for Him.
Untill anyone comes to that place where they realize in them selves they know nothing, they remain unteachable, God needs empty vessels that He can fill, but there are so few around.
Remember Jesus and teh water into wine, He choose the vessels that where empty and prepared, to fill with water which He than changed into the new wine.
@mjrhealth,
Indeed, for it is written,
1Co 8:1, Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2, And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3, But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
Indeed, for it is written,
1Co 8:1, Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2, And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3, But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
And yet so few pursue after Him. All these arguments are about ones knowledge of the Bible, it is Him we are supposed to Know, He is the key to the door at His wedding, nothing else will do.
No one keeps the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13, Galatians 3:22, Romans 3:23).
If you can testify that you wear tzizit and tallit and tefilin; and/or blow a trumpet on every new moon; then I will believe that perhaps you are complicit in obeying the letter of the law; while there are some 609 more commandments in the OT that are not yet taken into account.
Do I deceive myself by the understanding that I am not saved through keeping the law? For it is a biblical understanding (see Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:20).
If anyone is going to be saved through keeping the law, they must keep it perfectly from conception into eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48).
But Paul wrote to us under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, that we are delivered from the law so that we are no longer bound by the letter but are obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).
I agree that this is according to the letter for the most part.
However, in certain cases (such as if I were told by the Lord to heal someone on the sabbath by telling them to take up their bed and walk; in which case I would be violating the letter of the sabbath), the spirit of the law supersedes the letter. It would be love to do what I mentioned in (); but it would also be a violation of the letter of the sabbath.
And Jesus is our example of this in John chapter 5.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Rom 10:14, How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15, And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
2Ti 4:2, Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
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