Not by works - but by faith

[mailmandan]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say salvation is through “faith alone”.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say salvation is through faith "and works." The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:35,40,47; 11:25,26; 20:31; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39,48; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:2-6,9,11,13; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 15:1-4; Galatians 2:16; 3:6,7,8,14,22,24,26; 5:5; Ephesians 1:13; 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 4:2-3; 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5,9; 1 John 5:4,13 etc..).

*You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. *Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. *So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

Furthermore, “faith (rightly understood) in Christ” includes obeying Christ - which means “keeping His commandments” (1John 2:3-4)

That is false. Faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone means that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation. Obedience which follows (which includes keeping His commandments) is "works" and we are not saved by works (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) but through faith. (Romans 5:1; Ephesians 2:8)

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him, already saved, demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. BTW to "keep" His commandments does not mean sinless, perfect obedience 100% of the time to all of His commandments. He have all fallen short of that.

- which is “works” - which is what James means when he says “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24).

Faith is faith and works are works, yet Romans Catholics erroneously "infuse" works "into" faith and basically make no distinction between faith and works. Paul said saved through faith, not works and not faith and works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is evidenced by works (James 2:14-26). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merit of our works) that we are justified based on Christ's finished work or redemption alone (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (empty profession, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

Rev 12:17 (and 14:12) says the same thing as James 2:24 - true Christians are “those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus” (aka “faith and works”).

You are confusing "descriptive" passages of scripture with "prescriptive" passages of scripture. True Christians are those who "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments BECAUSE we already know Him/are already saved and not in order to become saved. You have have it backwards. We are not saved based on the merits of our best efforts to keep His commandments, but through faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse and the end result is salvation by faith + works and works salvation is no salvation at all. So how many works must you accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to "help" Christ save you? *Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. *No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28)

 

[RogerDC]

lol

So according to you they believed Jesus is the Christ, But now they do not believe that Jesus is the Christ (thus in effect denying that jesus is the Christ), and John said, those who deny Jesus is the Christ who at one time, were among us, but now have departed from us as unbelievers, have never been of us. and they left to prove they were never of us?

And you question what that means?

This is a pretty big problem

1John 2:18-25 does not support your argument that believers cannot lose their faith, as John appears to be referring to those who, from the beginning, did not have faith - ie, they did not believe “Jesus is the Christ”. Therefore this passage doesn’t apply to all those believers who, from the beginning, believed “Jesus is the Christ”, but later lost their faith and became atheists.

Neither can you argue that said atheists never had faith in the first place, as you cannot prove they never had faith - such an argument is based on nothing more than speculation.

Furthermore, Scripture clearly indicates believers can lose their faith - Luke 8:13, Heb 6:4-6. Jesus and Paul both say a believer can lose his faith, so whom should I believe - you or them?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1John 2:18-25 does not support your argument that believers cannot lose their faith, as John appears to be referring to those who, from the beginning, did not have faith - ie, they did not believe “Jesus is the Christ”. Therefore this passage doesn’t apply to all those believers who, from the beginning, believed “Jesus is the Christ”, but later lost their faith and became atheists.

Neither can you argue that said atheists never had faith in the first place, as you cannot prove they never had faith - such an argument is based on nothing more than speculation.

Furthermore, Scripture clearly indicates believers can lose their faith - Luke 8:13, Heb 6:4-6. Jesus and Paul both say a believer can lose his faith, so whom should I believe - you or them?

It does not support your view that one can in the beginningn has faith, But now has lost faith

Because he said they (this includes all of them) were never of us

Who ar they?

People who deny Jesus

who are they?

Unbelievers

Who are we? John tells us that also

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

You see this differentiates us and them

They never understood the truth, thats why they walked away. Because Like Judas, they did not believe.

 

[RogerDC]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say salvation is through faith "and works."

The NT clearly preaches salvation through faith and works:
“a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” and “faith without works is dead” (James 2:24-26);

“Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14);

“He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17);

“the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12);

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments … If a man loves me, he will keep my word … he who does not love me does not keep my words” (John 14:15-24);

“All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them.” (1John 3:24);

”He who believes in the Son has eternal life; he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God rests upon him” (John 3:36);

“And by this we may be sure that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says ‘I know Him’ but disobeys His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him truly love for God is perfected” (1John 2:3-4);

“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” ( 2Cor 5:10);

“But nothing unclean shall enter it (the New Jerusalem), nor anyone who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life” (Rev 21:27);

“Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law” (Romans 3:31);

“Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?” (Romans 2:4)

That is false. Faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone means that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation.

Having faith in Christ is only the first step on the road to salvation. After faith, we must abide in Christ by keeping His commandments:
“All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them.” (1John 3:24);

“And by this we may be sure that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says ‘I know Him’ but disobeys His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him truly love for God is perfected” (1John 2:3-4);

“the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12).

Jesus judges the seven Churches in Rev 2 and 3 according to both their faith and their works - you and I will be judged in the same way.

Paul said saved through faith, not works and not faith and works.

Paul preaches that we are not saved by works alone - meaning, works without faith don’t save. But Paul clearly preaches salvation through faith and works:
“Strive for … the holiness without which no one will see the Lord” (Heb 12:14);

“He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17);

“Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?” (Romans 2:4);

“Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law” (Romans 3:31);

“For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body” ( 2Cor 5:10);

“Now the works of the flesh are plain: immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:19-21);

”Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robber will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God” (1Cor 6:9-11);

“Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance?” (Romans 2:4);

“Be sure of this, that no immoral or impure man, or one that is covetous (that is, an idolater) has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceiver you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience … Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but expose them” (Eph 5:5-11)

 

[Episkopos]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say salvation is through “faith alone”.

Furthermore, “faith (rightly understood) in Christ” includes obeying Christ - which means “keeping His commandments” (1John 2:3-4) - which is “works” - which is what James means when he says “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24). Rev 12:17 (and 14:12) says the same thing as James 2:24 - true Christians are “those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus” (aka “faith and works”).

Evangelicals can't relate to James at all. But Catholics can. And that's because James is speaking about righteousness whereas evangelicals have this ingrained idea that none are righteous. And evangelicals are going after holiness...as per Paul...but missing the point of the high calling. And yet these understand that to be holy doesn't mean that only one person per generation has to be canonized by a pope to be seen as saintly.

So no one is getting what this is about. Paul is speaking of a faith that enters into the Spiritual realm of the kingdom. No amount of works can do this. So in this the evangelicals are right in their theory. It takes the faith of walking on water and removing mountains. It takes the faith OF Christ...not just a human faith. Human faith leads to righteousness...the righteousness of obedience with all one's heart and strength. But no amount of human faith can make the jump into Zion...to be translated into the kingdom of God's Son. That takes HIS faith....the gift of faith. So Paul preaches the gospel according to power....the power to BE with the Lord in an intimate walk of fellowship.

But when we are not actually present with the Lord we still need to act well...or righteously. And the Catholics have understood this...and some evangelicals actually act righteously but then claim to be walking in the Spirit...very confused.

So then we are justified by BOTH faith and works (faithfulness). In Hebrew and in Greek the same word covers faith AND faithfulness. In fact in the OT "emounah" means faithfulness more so than faith.

So the walk is from righteousness into holiness. And both are required to be Christ-like. So then whether we are present with the Lord in holiness or absent from the Lord in righteousness...we do all to be pleasing to God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Evangelicals can't relate to James at all. But Catholics can. And that's because James is speaking about righteousness whereas evangelicals have this ingrained idea that none are righteous. And evangelicals are going after holiness...as per Paul...but missing the point of the high calling. And yet these understand that to be holy doesn't mean that only one person per generation has to be canonized by a pope to be seen as saintly.

So no one is getting what this is about. Paul is speaking of a faith that enters into the Spiritual realm of the kingdom. No amount of works can do this. So in this the evangelicals are right in their theory. It takes the faith of walking on water and removing mountains. It takes the faith OF Christ...not just a human faith. Human faith leads to righteousness...the righteousness of obedience with all one's heart and strength. But no amount of human faith can make the jump into Zion...to be translated into the kingdom of God's Son. That takes HIS faith....the gift of faith. So Paul preaches the gospel according to power....the power to BE with the Lord in an intimate walk of fellowship.

But when we are not actually present with the Lord we still need to act well...or righteously. And the Catholics have understood this...and some evangelicals actually act righteously but then claim to be walking in the Spirit...very confused.

So then we are justified by BOTH faith and works (faithfulness). In Hebrew and in Greek the same word covers faith AND faithfulness. In fact in the OT "emounah" means faithfulness more so than faith.

So the walk is from righteousness into holiness. And both are required to be Christ-like. So then whether we are present with the Lord in holiness or absent from the Lord in righteousness...we do all to be pleasing to God.

Catholics cant relate to James

James is speaking of a dead faith, A mere belief, that has no faith in god or his promises, a licentious belief. which has never saved anyone, A "claimed faith" which is just that, Claimed faith that is no faith at all

Catholics and others want to make james speaking to people who at one time had faith, But now lost faith. and as such, lost salvation. Yet no place in James 2 does he speak of people who at one time did any works, or had any real living faith. He called these people hearers of the word only, and not doers.

They are church goers who like the game, but have never repented and had any real faith. They just like hanging around Gods people. because they are blessed by them And some, like here, Even evidently had worked their way up to being ushers, as they were seating people. Although in doing so their true heart showed. As they put the rich and influential up front, and the poor and needy in the back where they could not be seen.

 

[farouk]

Catholics cant relate to James

James is speaking of a dead faith, A mere belief, that has no faith in god or his promises, a licentious belief. which has never saved anyone, A "claimed faith" which is just that, Claimed faith that is no faith at all

Catholics and others want to make james speaking to people who at one time had faith, But now lost faith. and as such, lost salvation. Yet no place in James 2 does he speak of people who at one time did any works, or had any real living faith. He called these people hearers of the word only, and not doers.

They are church goers who like the game, but have never repented and had any real faith. They just like hanging around Gods people. because they are blessed by them And some, like here, Even evidently had worked their way up to being ushers, as they were seating people. Although in doing so their true heart showed. As they put the rich and influential up front, and the poor and needy in the back where they could not be seen.

My wife and I are currently reading in James's Epistle.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

My wife and I are currently reading in James's Epistle.

its amazing how many times he tells us to test our faith. in different areas of our lives.

It is an epistle of hope and encouragement for those who are led by it.. It brings us back to our first hope..

 

[farouk]

its amazing how many times he tells us to test our faith. in different areas of our lives.

It is an epistle of hope and encouragement for those who are led by it.. It brings us back to our first hope..

Similar idea in Isaiah 48.10: 'I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction'.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP Only, not having read all the responses, but the bible is clear.
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God".

but what about James, and the "Work" there? James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?".

or the apostle Paul, when he wrote, Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Romans 4:7 "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Romans 4:8 "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 4:9 "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

well who's right, answer all of them are right. for we're not save by our work, but are saved to work.

example, one do not just walk up on a Job site and start working, and at the end of the week expected to get paid ..... no, one must be HIRED (saved) first then they can go to work, and at the the end of the week get Paid/ have a reward.

PICJAG.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Addressing the OP Only, not having read all the responses, but the bible is clear.
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God".

but what about James, and the "Work" there? James 2:14 "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?".

or the apostle Paul, when he wrote, Romans 4:2 "For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3 "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5 "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Romans 4:7 "Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Romans 4:8 "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Romans 4:9 "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

well who's right, answer all of them are right. for we're not save by our work, but are saved to work.

example, one do not just walk up on a Job site and start working, and at the end of the week expected to get paid ..... no, one must be HIRED (saved) first then they can go to work, and at the the end of the week get Paid/ have a reward.

PICJAG.

Wrong.
Protestants tend to conflate Belief with Faith. They are NOT the same thing.

BOTH Paul AND James make it perfectly clear:
Faith = Belief + Works.

James 2:14-26 breaks down what faith actually is - first by explaining that even the DEMONS believe in the truths about God - and that we are NOT to be comforted by that alone. He goes on to describe that works are an actual component of faith - not just an "after-effect". He goes on to say that Abraham was justified by his WORKS (offering up Isaac).

Paul reminds us that you cannot have true faith without love (charity) (1 Cor. 13:1-13) - and that the ONLY thing that matter is "faith working through love" (Gal. 5:6). In BOTH of these passages, Paul uses the term "Agape" which is the kind of love that is NOT romantic or the love of self - but one of good will and benevolence.

Non-Catholics try to pit Paul against James instead of reading BOTH in context - and understanding that they compliment each other . . .

 

[RogerDC]

Evangelicals can't relate to James at all. But Catholics can. And that's because James is speaking about righteousness whereas evangelicals have this ingrained idea that none are righteous. And evangelicals are going after holiness...as per Paul...but missing the point of the high calling. And yet these understand that to be holy doesn't mean that only one person per generation has to be canonized by a pope to be seen as saintly.

So no one is getting what this is about. Paul is speaking of a faith that enters into the Spiritual realm of the kingdom. No amount of works can do this. So in this the evangelicals are right in their theory. It takes the faith of walking on water and removing mountains. It takes the faith OF Christ...not just a human faith. Human faith leads to righteousness...the righteousness of obedience with all one's heart and strength. But no amount of human faith can make the jump into Zion...to be translated into the kingdom of God's Son. That takes HIS faith....the gift of faith. So Paul preaches the gospel according to power....the power to BE with the Lord in an intimate walk of fellowship.

But when we are not actually present with the Lord we still need to act well...or righteously. And the Catholics have understood this...and some evangelicals actually act righteously but then claim to be walking in the Spirit...very confused.

So then we are justified by BOTH faith and works (faithfulness). In Hebrew and in Greek the same word covers faith AND faithfulness. In fact in the OT "emounah" means faithfulness more so than faith.

So the walk is from righteousness into holiness. And both are required to be Christ-like. So then whether we are present with the Lord in holiness or absent from the Lord in righteousness...we do all to be pleasing to God.

Jesus judges the seven Churches in Rev 2 and 3 according to both their faith and their WORKS (works = keeping His commandments). I expect all believers will be judged according to the same criteria.

 

[Joseph77]

QUOTE="Ernest T. Bass, Feb 26, 2020 "]Salvation is not an unconditional guarantee therefore many verses have the verb "believe" in the present tense denoting that salvation is a process that must be ongoing, sustained. Per Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:8; Titus 2:14 Christians are to "maintain good works" keep producing fruit else will fall away and become lost (Matthew 7:19).[/QUOTE

 

[Tong2020]

This means the "not of works" of verse 9 cannot eliminate the "good works" of verse 10. And good works (bringing forth fruit) is a form of obedience that is necessary to salvation (Matthew 7:19; John 15:2). Therefore "not of works" cannot eliminate obedience that is necessary in becoming saved (faith, repentance, confession, baptism) nor eliminate the obedience (good works) that is necessary in maintaining salvation in producing good fruit.

The good works in verse 10 are not the "works" in verse 9.

Ephesians 2: 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The good works spoken about in verse 10 were not for the unbeliever to walk in them to be saved or what. They are for the saved Christian, obviously not so he would be saved, for he is already saved.

Tong
R0004

 

[Joseph77]

The good works in verse 10 are not the "works" in verse 9.

Ephesians 2: 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The good works spoken about in verse 10 were not for the unbeliever to walk in them to be saved or what. They are for the saved Christian, obviously not so he would be saved, for he is already saved.

Tong
R0004

It looks so far (here at least, in context of this thread) like your posts and Bass's are in agreement, not contradictory .....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The good works in verse 10 are not the "works" in verse 9.

Ephesians 2: 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The good works spoken about in verse 10 were not for the unbeliever to walk in them to be saved or what. They are for the saved Christian, obviously not so he would be saved, for he is already saved.

Tong
R0004

Amen

The works in verse 10 are not done in order to recieve the salvation of vs 8-9. but as a result of being saved by the faith of vs 8 - 9, and thus made new in Christ.

Again, Welcome to CC

 

[Tong2020]

Salvation is not an unconditional guarantee therefore many verses have the verb "believe" in the present tense denoting that salvation is a process that must be ongoing, sustained. Per Ephesians 2:10; Titus 3:8; Titus 2:14 Christians are to "maintain good works" keep producing fruit else will fall away and become lost (Matthew 7:19).

SALVATION IS BY GRACE.
SALVATION IS NOT OF YOURSELVES.
SALVATION IS NOT YOUR OWN DOING.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,(ESV)

By grace. And grace is what, but unmerited favor and kindness, freely given coming from God. That's love sir. Do you know that Christ died for us even while we were yet sinners? If there is anything that it clearly tells us about the great love of God on us, is that it is unconditional and is truly amazing.

You, I, we are saved not of ourselves nor anything of our own doing.

GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE JEW BY FAITH.
GOD WILL JUSTIFY THE GENTILE THROUGH FAITH.

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.(KJV)
Romans 3:30 since God is one—who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.(ESV)

It is God who justifies the sinner. We don't get to justify ourselves. The sinner don't get to justify himself. It is not man who justifies. Rather, it is man who needs to be justified. And it is Good who justifies.

THE SAVED IS CREATED ANEW IN CHRIST JESUS.
THE CHRISTIAN IS GOD'S WORKMANSHIP.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (KJV)
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.(ESV)

It is God who re-create the sinner to be a new creature in Christ. The one being created anew has nothing at all to do with this creation work of God. As Paul said, the Christian is God's workmanship.

Tong
R0006

 

[Tong2020]

This is false. You are taking things too far...as all religious people do. The judgment of Christ is about the kind of works you do. Are they eternal works prepared in advance? Are they just human works based on religious posturing. Many will be rejected by God.

Out of the same lump God makes vessels for honour and vessels of dishonour. Humble yourself in the fear of the Lord and pray that God would keep you in His mercy.

And learn that God has no favourite special people. He rejected His own people when their attitudes became too smug. Be careful because you sound too smug to me.

Greetings Episkopos!

Just like to ask, what judgment are you meaning to refer in your post? Are you referring to judgment wherein man will be judged whether they will go to Hell or not?

Tong
R0007

 

[Tong2020]

I agree. Some groups believe what they believe makes them saved no matter how they behave or at some later point believe.
To me this is a non-covenant based on a non-relationship. The prophets said simply the promises God gave to His people were based on them loving and appreciating Him and His commands and following Him. If they chose the way of the world, no matter what went before would be forgotten and as with Korah the ground would open up and swallow them whole.

Arrogance says, we are the chosen, secure in the promise, though we are rebellious evil wicked people who ignore and disobey the principles and heart of the King. And God replaced these people with the disciples, grafted into the vine, because they walked the way of love. It is impossible to be in Christ and not be in love and its dynamic life. It is like saying a marathon runner can turn up on the day of the marathon and run it without training and preparation. They will just fail, and only fools behave like this. No a marathon runner creates a training plan and follows it so when the day comes they are ready to achieve the race and end it. Jesus uses exactly the same language and Paul also.

And the cost is our lives, everything we are, to become a new creation, set in Christ that effects everything we do, say, think and desire.
It is hard to say anything that is actually left out. Put simply if the word of Christ dwells in your heart, these are the words Christ speaks to us.

Yes, such a language of running the race is used in scriptures. But make no mistake about that, that it refers to Christians, the saved, the elect, the children of God, the sheep, them who had been predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son, Jesus Christ. If predestined, then it shall come to pass that they shall be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. If so, running the race could not mean unto salvation, going to hell or going to heaven, right? Right. It is something else, not that. Something you can ponder about.

It's not arrogance that says the Christians are chosen. It is scriptures that says so, not arrogance. Here are a couple of passages for your consideration.

Colossians 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,

1 Thessalonians 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,

Let me share to you what scriptures says of sinful man. Scriptures use this language concerning the state and situation of sinful man. That sinful man is a slave (servant) of sin. He is a slave, in the context of the time and culture of Egypt. Had you considered that? Now, if you had, had you asked yourself the question, how can a slave be free from his slavery from his current master? In ancient times, now one way, and the quickest way, is by being redeemed with a good price by another who then shall be his new master. And in the redemption, will he do anything concerning that? None, nothing. He don't know even if that will even come. He just waits, if at all he waits. And when he is redeemed, had he not then been freed from being a slave of his former master, that is sin? Yes he was freed. And we know who redeemed him. Yes Jesus Christ. So, he now had a new master, and He is Jesus Christ. And so, he had been saved from sin, having been redeemed. He is now Jesus'.

Tong
R0009

* edited to make some correction on the English.

 

[farouk]

The good works in verse 10 are not the "works" in verse 9.

Ephesians 2: 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The good works spoken about in verse 10 were not for the unbeliever to walk in them to be saved or what. They are for the saved Christian, obviously not so he would be saved, for he is already saved.

Tong
R0004

Hi @Tong2020 Yes, you make a good point there. Faith produces obedience; but obedience does not earn salvation, which is all of grace.