Not faith alone?

[amadeus]

I didn't do any such thing!

Your response indicates to me that you did not clearly understand what I wrote.

 

[justbyfaith]

I didn't do any such thing!

He didn't say that you did.

 

[kcnalp]

yes...me.

Which parts of the Law led you to Jesus? The COMMAND to execute those who work on weekends maybe?

That goes without saying (Galatians 6:13).

Yep.

Maybe this part led you to Jesus?
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NKJV)
6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, 7 of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, 8 you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; 9 but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 And you shall stone him with stones until he dies,

If that were the case, then any true evangelist is required to obey the whole law of Moses.

You actually know "evangelists" who preach the Law of Moses to unbelievers?

You are not going to convince me of your pov. I know that I am saved wholly through the blood of Jesus Christ...forgiven and redeemed.

The whole law...

Yeah right.

What do you have against the part that says homosexuals are to be put to death?

Are you gay yourself?

I have nothing against the Law. It doesn't apply to me whatsoever. No, I'm not gay. Are you?

You mean you don't?

No I don't know anyone who is even close to being sinless. Do you?

I do confess my sins any time the Holy Spirit pinpoints them to my awareness.

That is the meaning of 1 John 1:8. You are deceiving yourself if you deny the testimony of the Holy Spirit when He is pinpointing your sin to you.

So you're not sinless. Well nobody is, but Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

Which parts of the Law led you to Jesus? The COMMAND to execute those who work on weekends maybe?

My violation of the law of Moses before becoming a believer was so heinous as to not bear mentioning here. Suffice it to say that that sin is now underneath the blood.

I have nothing against the Law. It doesn't apply to me whatsoever. No, I'm not gay. Are you?

edited post #421 (Not faith alone?).

No I don't know anyone who is even close to being sinless. Do you?

edited post #421 (Not faith alone?).

So you're not sinless. Well nobody is, but Jesus.

How strange then that just above you denied that you even know Him.

 

[justbyfaith]

A case can be made in scripture for the doctrine of "sinless perfection" (even as opposed to "entire sanctification") in the following verses:

1 John 1:5 & 1 John 3:5 w/ 1 John 5:20; Ephesians 5:30-32, 1 Peter 1:22, 2 Peter 3:1, 2 Timothy 2:22, 1 John 3:3; 1 John 4:17 w/ 1 John 3:5.

I consider that these are God's using of a literary tactic to exaggerate the fact that our sins are underneath the blood and that the element of sin is rendered dead within us (because of 1 John 1:8).

 

[kcnalp]

How strange then that just above you denied that you even know Him.

No I did not!

 

[kcnalp]

A case can be made in scripture for the doctrine of "sinless perfection" in the following verses:

1 John 1:5 & 1 John 3:5 w/ 1 John 5:20; Ephesians 5:30-32, 1 Peter 1:22, 2 Peter 3:1, 2 Timothy 2:22, 1 John 3:3; 1 John 4:17 w/ 1 John 3:5.

I consider that these are God's using of a literary tactic to exaggerate the fact that our sins are underneath the blood and that the element of sin is rendered dead within us (because of 1 John 1:8).

But you don't know anybody who is LITERALLY sinless?

 

[justbyfaith]

No I did not!

You said that you don't know anyone who is sinless.

Then you said that you know that Jesus is sinless.

If you know Jesus, then you know someone who is sinless.

That is the bottom line.

 

[justbyfaith]

But you don't know anybody who is sinless?

I told you that I edited the post; and then I gave you a link to it. Why don't you read it again?

Not faith alone?

 

[kcnalp]

You said that you don't know anyone who is sinless.

Then you said that you know that Jesus is sinless.

If you know Jesus, then you know someone who is sinless.

That is the bottom line.

Most true Christians know that ONLY Jesus was sinless. I didn't think I would have to explain that to you.

 

[justbyfaith]

But you don't know anybody who is LITERALLY sinless?

Read each of the verses in question (in order); and you may have your answer.

A case can be made in scripture for the doctrine of "sinless perfection" (even as opposed to "entire sanctification") in the following verses:

1 John 1:5 & 1 John 3:5 w/ 1 John 5:20; Ephesians 5:30-32 (kjv), 1 Peter 1:22 , 2 Peter 3:1 (kjv), 2 Timothy 2:22, 1 John 3:3; 1 John 4:17 w/ 1 John 3:5.

I consider that these are God's using of a literary tactic to exaggerate the fact that our sins are underneath the blood and that the element of sin is rendered dead within us (because of 1 John 1:8).

 

[Heart2Soul]

Of course, in Romans 7:14-25, Paul is using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION; which he said he was prone to do in 1 Corinthians 9:22.

In this literary tactic, the author identifies himself with the person he is speaking to (even though he is not truly like them...i.e. "I became as weak in order to win those who are weak") in order to win them to his point of view; in order to show them the folly of being in the state that they are in.

It should be clear that if anyone is living a Romans 7:14-25 lifestyle, they are not saved (I think that I can prove this scripturally).

But they are on the way to salvation if they will identify with Paul's statement in Romans 7:24 (as he identifies with them); and show discontentedness over their sin.

Another point about the passage. Those who are kept in bondage are seeking "how" to be able to escape that bondage. Paul makes it clear, within the passage, that the solution is not a "how" but a "WHO".

I used to be where you are now....Then one day my ABBA Father spoke to me for the first time in my life. And for the 1st time ever I finally understood what salvation truly was.

 

[amadeus]

No I did not!

You mixed your quotations. Those words you showed as mine in your post #427 were written by @justbyfaith in his post #425. Please correct your post! Thank you!

 

[justbyfaith]

I used to be where you are now....Then one day my ABBA Father spoke to me for the first time in my life. And for the 1st time ever I finally understood what salvation truly was.

I'm interested in hearing more of what you think concerning this.

 

[brightfame52]

Then, perhaps, you did not really come to Jesus.

I could be wrong (you may be an exception to the rule).



That is like telling people "I have medicine here for you to take" without showing them that they have a disease and thus the need to take it.



I don't keep the law of Moses (Galatians 6:13). However, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me because I walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

I may not wear tzitzit and tallit and tefilin, or blow a trumpet at the new moon; but Jesus said that the law is fulfilled in two commandments: 1) that you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and, 2) that you love your neighbor as yourself.

The love of the Lord is shed abroad in my heart through the Holy Ghost which is given unto me (Romans 5:5). Therefore the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in me (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

Again, Romans 7:6 tells us that we are no longer bound to the letter but because we have the Spirit, we will be obedient to the spirit of what is written.



Preaching the law of Moses is not the same as trusting in the law of Moses to save me.

For I preach the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

I know and understand that my salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ alone.



Through the obedience of Christ.

1) He was obedient unto death, so that His blood was shed, which sanctifies us (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

2) He has come to live in us (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12, and Galatians 2:20) and in living His life in us and through us, His obedience makes us righteous (because He is living an obedient life in us and through us) in the practical sense.



So, the way your reasoning goes:

No one is sinless; and if anyone claims to be sinless, they are sinning.

What about those who are silently sinless and do not claim to be so? You would not know that they are sinless because they have not set their lives in front of you as an example of sinlessness.
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btw, I agree that no one is sinless.

We all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).

That element of sin, dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

Thus there is no real contradiction between 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17.

There would only be a contradiction if 1 John 1:8 said, "If we say that we do not sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." Look at it again. It does not exactly say that.

Okay then everyone Christ died for shall be saved and made righteous. Rom 5:19

 

[justbyfaith]

I used to be where you are now....Then one day my ABBA Father spoke to me for the first time in my life. And for the 1st time ever I finally understood what salvation truly was.

Jesus is also my ABBA daddy...

 

[justbyfaith]

Okay then everyone Christ died for shall be saved and made righteous. Rom 5:19

Most definitely...and it is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

(see also Romans 8:4, Romans 8:7, Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6) and I may have missed a few...

 

[kcnalp]

Your response provides an example of why it is not given by God for either you or I to impose a final judgement of another person. Consider the difference between King Saul and King David! Why, when both were anointed, was the one rejected by God and the other called the 'apple of His eye' and a man after His heart...

I quoted you.

 

[brightfame52]

Most definitely...and it is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21) that it is righteousness indeed.

(see also Romans 8:4, Romans 8:7, Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6) and I may have missed a few...

You do realize that everyone without exception shall not be saved so Christ didn't die for all without exception

 

[justbyfaith]

You actually know "evangelists" who preach the Law of Moses to unbelievers?

I'm one...