On Dying

[amadeus]

The flesh is dying for all of us... even the young. Young people may not realize that that they are dying too, because early on the renewal processes in our carnal bodies stays ahead of the dying process. Somewhere at some optimum point for each of us we start losing the contest between life and death. Good eating habits and proper exercise can slow it down, but it cannot be stopped.

On the other hand, remember Jesus' words to Martha:

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

Jesus was speaking of new or inner man mentioned by Paul later, the born again [or born from above] man of each of us. While the flesh will die, the new man provide us with the opportunity to never die. One key to this is to never weary in well doing. Another is to never take our eyes off of Jesus. Peter provided an early example of this when he walked out on the water toward Jesus. He was walking on the water until he looked away from Jesus to the danger of the water under his feet. Even then it was not too late for as he began to sink back into the pit of unbelief, he called out and Jesus took him by the hand.

Give God the glory!

 

[Windmillcharge]

Good old Peter, always jumping in with both feet. We might laugh at him, but can we copy him in his willingness to believe, act and trust in Jesus.

He faced very real threats to his faith, crucifixtion was not a word to him.

How also he lived, boldly for Jesus, even when it was hard and when it did mean death.

He show us that we can live a life to the full, that does honour God.
Jim Elliots is reported to have said." He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep. To gain what he cannot loose."

Thank you Amadeus for the reminder.

 

[aspen]

Death to the ego takes away all fear of physical death

 

[Helen]

Death to the ego takes away all fear of physical death

But, do we fear physical death? < a scratching of chin here >

I don't know about you, but I am not immune to physical PAIN!!
I have had to look death in the face twice in my life...I had some resistance I agree, and argued with God that it was too early...but I had no fear...because there was no pain.
Pain for me is the issue...if I can go out of here pain free...bring it on!!

@amadeus Amen bro.

Does it not all come down to identity?

Not so much being preoccupied in getting the old man to stay dead, so that the inner man can abound....but a case of knowing which one we are!!

Being totally convince that the feet of this tent though cold but they are not really "me" , and the tummy which wants food...but is not "me" but is only the tent God has lent to me for a certain number of days is one thing.

When we are 100% convinced that the "I" that dwells within me, and is vitally connected to the real world and to Him who is life Himself is "me"...then we are well on our way.
While the mind of this tent is intact and not distracted, I can be persuaded and I ( outer) agree ( with inner)...but...throw in the issue of pain...and the situation where the mind cannot cooperate with the spirit man within... we then have a problem.
The weapon of Pain consumes our tent, and screams so loudly that the spiritual-new-man is totally grounded.

That for me is the rub.

 

[aspen]

Yes, pain is frightening, but it does not have to be the focus of dying. It also seems to reach a threshhold - it is more painful for me to see others in pain than to be in pain

 

[Helen]

Yes, pain is frightening, but it does not have to be the focus of dying. It also seems to reach a threshhold - it is more painful for me to see others in pain than to be in pain

It may not .. "have to be the focus of dying"....but how many time have you tried this!! I think if pain was there...focus is out of the question!!!
One needs to be able to have a free functioning brain to be able to "focus"!

I so wish I could also say, and mean it...that -" it is more painful for me to see others in pain that to be in pain".. I would be a liar.
..when I have any gripping pain in the body I cannot think at all...only react to it's all consuming dictating to me.

I see I have a long way to go to catch you up.

 

[aspen]

It may not .. "have to be the focus of dying"....but how many time have you tried this!! I think if pain was there...focus is out of the question!!!
One needs to be able to have a free functioning brain to be able to "focus"!

I so wish I could also say, and mean it...that -" it is more painful for me to see others in pain that to be in pain".. I would be a liar.
..when I have any gripping pain in the body I cannot think at all...only react to it's all consuming dictating to me.

I see I have a long way to go to catch you up.

We are all pilgrims on the same road.
Living with chronic pain is a skill. It is never pleasant, and often exhausting, but it is manageable. It really is a matter of focus.

I can speak to the subject, specifically connected to death.

 

[amadeus]

It may not .. "have to be the focus of dying"....but how many time have you tried this!! I think if pain was there...focus is out of the question!!!
One needs to be able to have a free functioning brain to be able to "focus"!

I so wish I could also say, and mean it...that -" it is more painful for me to see others in pain that to be in pain".. I would be a liar.
..when I have any gripping pain in the body I cannot think at all...only react to it's all consuming dictating to me.

I see I have a long way to go to catch you up.

Before we were Christians, when my wife was pregnant with our second child she learned Lamaze. After screaming with pain with the first child, for the second used her Lamaze and the difference was like night and day. Any time to this day when she is in pain, she uses that same Lamaze successfully. Our God does not leave us without help.

 

[Helen]

Before we were Christians, when my wife was pregnant with our second child she learned Lamaze. ....Any time to this day when she is in pain, she uses that same Lamaze successfully. Our God does not leave us without help.

Hi ...so what is that Amadeus? = Lamaze?

 

[amadeus]

Hi ...so what is that Amadeus? = Lamaze?

It is a breathing technique used by women during labor to endure pain without anesthesia. My wife used it successfully as I said for the birth of our little girl. I remember at the time that I was her breathing coach, but I have forgotten whatever I learned at the time. She does not need as coach and she still uses it for other ongoing pain completely unrelated to pregnancy. I just checked and there is a lot of information available on the Internet under Lamaze. Of course, they seem to all be talking about being in labor, but my wife hasn't been in labor since 1974 and still relies on it at times. Below is a link to one such site:

Patterned Breathing During Labor: Techniques and Benefits

 

[Helen]

@amadeus Thank you for the info I will check it out for sure...it may come in handy at some point...it never hurts to have some extra weapon at hand.
I can see now why I yelled, cried, and moaned through out my babies births back in the sixties... I had not heard of any of those techniques!

 

[bbyrd009]

Somewhere at some optimum point for each of us we start losing the contest between life and death. Good eating habits and proper exercise can slow it down, but it cannot be stopped.

death comes to us all, but i am seeing that it is really about how much life we actually lived before then that is telling. An active 90 year old, still got their juice, dying in their sleep, peacefully, just presents a different image than...the physical deaths that are becoming more prevalent today, and the lives that predicated those deaths, imo.

Iow the actual death is not relevant--except to us--as physical death is meaningless to God; it is the life that should be relevant, even the life of the flesh. Flesh is not evil, as is broadly believed; flesh thinking is. This pov that we are all going to be able to walk through walls in the New Jerusalem is misguided, imo

 

[DPMartin]

But, do we fear physical death? < a scratching of chin here >

I don't know about you, but I am not immune to physical PAIN!!
I have had to look death in the face twice in my life...I had some resistance I agree, and argued with God that it was too early...but I had no fear...because there was no pain.
Pain for me is the issue...if I can go out of here pain free...bring it on!!

@amadeus Amen bro.

Does it not all come down to identity?

Not so much being preoccupied in getting the old man to stay dead, so that the inner man can abound....but a case of knowing which one we are!!

Being totally convince that the feet of this tent though cold but they are not really "me" , and the tummy which wants food...but is not "me" but is only the tent God has lent to me for a certain number of days is one thing.

When we are 100% convinced that the "I" that dwells within me, and is vitally connected to the real world and to Him who is life Himself is "me"...then we are well on our way.
While the mind of this tent is intact and not distracted, I can be persuaded and I ( outer) agree ( with inner)...but...throw in the issue of pain...and the situation where the mind cannot cooperate with the spirit man within... we then have a problem.
The weapon of Pain consumes our tent, and screams so loudly that the spiritual-new-man is totally grounded.

That for me is the rub.

I'm not immune to physical pain either, matter a fact I'm allergic to pain.

 

[bbyrd009]

While the flesh will die, the new man provide us with the opportunity to never die.

see, i perceive that you got a lot of likes for this, but imo "the flesh will die" is being looked forward to, a la "we are confident, i tell you, and wish that we were already dead and partying with Jesus," when the "flesh" was sposed to "die" way before the physical death, see. The New Man should be providing us with opportunities to live "life, more abundantly" right now, imo.

We mouth that we do not know what we will become, see, but we really believe that we know what we will become, in that pov, imo

 

[Helen]

I'm not immune to physical pain either, matter a fact I'm allergic to pain.

Haha! Agree.
As Christians if we are honest I doubt we fear death at all...but the vehicle of death is more the question!!
The dying painfully by inches I have to admit does concern me...a wee bit!!

Oh Lord send the whirlwind and chariot that you sent for Elijah!

 

[bbyrd009]

Good old Peter, always jumping in with both feet. We might laugh at him, but can we copy him in his willingness to believe, act and trust in Jesus.

"eager to do it my way" is what i get from Peter...Paul is who you are describing more to me

 

[bbyrd009]

How also he lived, boldly for Jesus, even when it was hard and when it did mean death.

again i am hearing Paul, even if Peter did come to this later. Peter stands out imo as the one who so easily takes his eyes from Christ, as a leader; who interfered in the Arrest, after having been told in plain language what was coming--no parables. And who so quickly denied Christ in the moment; three times (heart, mind, gut)

not meaning to dis Peter though, don't get me wrong. I had to renovate my beliefs @ Paul, lol, prolly i just haven't done this for Peter yet. Where is his best foot forward, in your opinion? i never spent much time in Peter the Book, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Death to the ego takes away all fear of physical death

Word

course all that worrying about getting self/ego to a party in the "afterlife" has to go with it i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

But, do we fear physical death? < a scratching of chin here >

I don't know about you, but I am not immune to physical PAIN!!
I have had to look death in the face twice in my life...I had some resistance I agree, and argued with God that it was too early...but I had no fear...because there was no pain.
Pain for me is the issue...if I can go out of here pain free...bring it on!!

@amadeus Amen bro.

Does it not all come down to identity?

Not so much being preoccupied in getting the old man to stay dead, so that the inner man can abound....but a case of knowing which one we are!!

Being totally convince that the feet of this tent though cold but they are not really "me" , and the tummy which wants food...but is not "me" but is only the tent God has lent to me for a certain number of days is one thing.

When we are 100% convinced that the "I" that dwells within me, and is vitally connected to the real world and to Him who is life Himself is "me"...then we are well on our way.
While the mind of this tent is intact and not distracted, I can be persuaded and I ( outer) agree ( with inner)...but...throw in the issue of pain...and the situation where the mind cannot cooperate with the spirit man within... we then have a problem.
The weapon of Pain consumes our tent, and screams so loudly that the spiritual-new-man is totally grounded.

That for me is the rub.

yes, pain is not the natural state, and should be understood for what it is, a sign that change is needed

 

[Helen]

see, i perceive that you got a lot of likes for this, but imo "the flesh will die" is being looked forward to, a la "we are confident, i tell you, and wish that we were already dead and partying with Jesus," when the "flesh" was sposed to "die" way before the physical death, see. The New Man should be providing us with opportunities to live "life, more abundantly" right now, imo.

We mouth that we do not know what we will become, see, but we really believe that we know what we will become, in that pov, imo

Good post.
I can't say I am looking to the flesh physically dying...if it's quick I would fight it at my age.
My dad was 90, sick with his heart and very much looking forward to be able to breath again ( however or if ever one breathes when the flesh has gone)

I can 'see' the old man ( literal flesh) getting weaker...and I can get all religious about 'the inner spiritual man hopefully getting stronger'
But, because I am honest I cannot in all truth see that my spiritual man has increased, and my flesh ( old) man has decreased since 1964!

They are good words...and words that we all as christians know should be experiencing to be happening...but in truth, I can't see it in myself, or in others!!! We all seem as we have always been.
There, ...I've said it!