On What day did YOUR Messiah Die?

[tomwebster]

Ok. Bear with me one more time and answer clearly.... I understand what you said and I can get a clear answer from it, but I would like a yes or no answer.... I have my reasons, please bear with me. Yes or no... In plain terms that Goinheix can understand. Does Wikipedia hold more authority than the New Testament?

I can answer that, absolutely NOT! Wikipedia has no authority in anything, it is not written by anyone special.

 

[Goinheix]

I can answer that, absolutely NOT! Wikipedia has no authority in anything, it is not written by anyone special.

If so, what is the porpose to quote it. If we are discussing the Pasion of the Christ, isnt enough the NT and the OT to give us the answers? What part Wikipedia has critizising how confuse the Gospels are?

 

[FHII]

I can answer that, absolutely NOT! Wikipedia has no authority in anything, it is not written by anyone special.

Thank you, Tomwebster. I agree. I'm building to a point, however, and I need Tim to verify it for me. I have no doubt in my mind that Tim from PA would say the same thing. I just need Tim to say it publically. Once he does, I can discuss a theory I have about this arguement and that concerns Goinheix's comments.

 

[tomwebster]

... According to you, Exodus is correct and the Gospels are wrong. Actually the only thing that is wrong is saying that it was necesary for Jesus to die the 14th.
...

No, the Gospels and Exodus agree. I just know how to read with understanding. But you may believe anything you want, it doesn’t matter to me. You have the right to be wrong.

 

[Goinheix]

No, the Gospels and Exodus agree. I just know how to read with understanding. But you may believe anything you want, it doesn’t matter to me. You have the right to be wrong.

The Gospels say that Jesus did celebrates the passover the night of the 15th. If as I belive - and youn as well - the Gosples is right, then Jesus did not die in the 14th.
Starting in that point we have clear that all your theoty in nonsence and totaly wrong. No way Jesus did die on Wed.

 

[FHII]

The Gospels say that Jesus did celebrates the passover the night of the 15th. If as I belive - and youn as well - the Gosples is right, then Jesus did not die in the 14th.
Starting in that point we have clear that all your theoty in nonsence and totaly wrong. No way Jesus did die on Wed.

Just for fun, I'd like you to explain how Jesus died on Thursday, rose before sunset on Saturday (or rose on Sunday morning, which is wrong, but ok...) and that somehow is three days and three nights.

 

[Goinheix]

Just for fun, I'd like you to explain how Jesus died on Thursday, rose before sunset on Saturday (or rose on Sunday morning, which is wrong, but ok...) and that somehow is three days and three nights.

Thank for the oportunity. And I will give you the oportunity to explain how is it possible for Jesus to die in Wed and resurrect in the third day on Sunday.


For avoiding confusion let talk of Jew days.
Thu, Jesus die by 3pm, that is 3 hour befor next day start. And for the Jew that will be day one.
Fri, despite being a Hig Sabbath it is Fri from sunset to next sunset. Jesus have been placed in the sepulcre the previous day, before Fri (High Sabbath) commenced. This is night one and day two.
Sat, now we are in a week Sabbath, from sunset to sunset. That are night two and day three.
Sun, from sunset on it is the first day of the week. It makes not different if Jesus did rose righ after sunset or just before sunrise. that is night three.
3 days and 3 nights.


Now it is your oportuni9ty to explain how Jesus rose the third day.

 

[FHII]

Thank for the oportunity. And I will give you the oportunity to explain how is it possible for Jesus to die in Wed and resurrect in the third day on Sunday.


For avoiding confusion let talk of Jew days.
Thu, Jesus die by 3pm, that is 3 hour befor next day start. And for the Jew that will be day one.
Fri, despite being a Hig Sabbath it is Fri from sunset to next sunset. Jesus have been placed in the sepulcre the previous day, before Fri (High Sabbath) commenced. This is night one and day two.
Sat, now we are in a week Sabbath, from sunset to sunset. That are night two and day three.
Sun, from sunset on it is the first day of the week. It makes not different if Jesus did rose righ after sunset or just before sunrise. that is night three.
3 days and 3 nights.


Now it is your oportuni9ty to explain how Jesus rose the third day.

Well, that's not three days and three nights is it? That's two days, a part of a day and not even really three nights seeing as how Jesus arose before sunset on Saturday. But it doesn't surprise me that you believe its three days and three nights.

 

[Goinheix]

Well, that's not three days and three nights is it? That's two days, a part of a day and not even really three nights seeing as how Jesus arose before sunset on Saturday. But it doesn't surprise me that you believe its three days and three nights.

The Jew count inclusive. Jesus is Jew and talked to Jew in a lengiuage and term that Jew undertood.
Now is your time to count 3 days and 3 night from Wed
Now is your time to count the third day from Wd.

 

[THE Gypsy]

"YOUR Messiah"? "MY Messiah"? I was under the impression there is only ONE Messiah.

Fact is...Other than the actual time period involved, we have no way of knowing for sure. The Bible is not "day" specific and since none of us were there....It's all speculation.

 

[Goinheix]

Fact is...Other than the actual time period involved, we have no way of knowing for sure. The Bible is not "day" specific and since none of us were there....It's all speculation.

No, is not like this. The Gospels are full, literally full of deatils as in wich year, in wich day, at what hour. From bewginnig to end the Gospels are full of information concerning times. There is not such a excuse as we can not now. The same Pasion is full of timing, days, dates and hours. All that information that flodd the Gospels and flood the Pasion is not irrelevant and must - is not that we can, but must - take it in concideration.
Saying that we dont know and can not know, and even worst that we dont care to know the spicific time of the Pasion is sin.

 

[THE Gypsy]

No, is not like this. The Gospels are full, literally full of deatils as in wich year, in wich day, at what hour. From bewginnig to end the Gospels are full of information concerning times. There is not such a excuse as we can not now. The same Pasion is full of timing, days, dates and hours. All that information that flodd the Gospels and flood the Pasion is not irrelevant and must - is not that we can, but must - take it in concideration.
Saying that we dont know and can not know, and even worst that we dont care to know the spicific time of the Pasion is sin.

You are incorrect. And...No one said the "information" WAS "Irrelevant".

BTW...Try using spell check if you really want to be taken seriously.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Ok. Bear with me one more time and answer clearly.... I understand what you said and I can get a clear answer from it, but I would like a yes or no answer.... I have my reasons, please bear with me. Yes or no... In plain terms that Goinheix can understand. Does Wikipedia hold more authority than the New Testament?

NO

You are incorrect. And...No one said the "information" WAS "Irrelevant".

BTW...Try using spell check if you really want to be taken seriously.

Gypsy:

English is not Goinheix's primary language, just so that you know. I think he communicates rather well, and I understand him well enough.

 

[THE Gypsy]

NO



Gypsy:

English is not Goinheix's primary language, just so that you know. I think he communicates rather well, and I understand him well enough.

I figured that out, however, that is no excuse for being too lazy to push the "spell check" button. Grammar...Now that's an entirely different thing.

 

[Goinheix]

In this thread there is a number of brothers trying to teach all of us that Jesus did died on a Wed. This preocupation I have found inm almos every Forum I have visited, ebglish and spanish. Same concern I have found in places as Hi5 and Facebook. Before them, before Internet, it was some grup of brither with the same concern tryin to teach the Wed crucifixion. All of that for one first - unknown for me - brother that figured out the Wed to be the actual day of crucifixion.
Proposing Wed as crucifixion day was something new in a Christian world where the tradition was the Fri. But it took not to long to have some christians rasing the voice and teaching than rather than Fri, the crucifixion was on Thu. Then after somebidy from the oficial church in Rome coming to say Fri, somebody else comes with Thu and now with Wed. What we have is a widely spread concern on knowing for sure in wich day did our Christ died. Is that trivial and unnecesary?
Aparently not. Starting for the first catholic requesting to some theologyst to establish a day (Fri), all the way to present time; the concern in determining the day of the crucifixion is a genuine and valid concern.
Actually, the first christians to demostrate interest in having the day of the crucifixion were the four authors of the Gospels.


There is only one thing worse than being wrong about wich day was the crucifixion; the worse thing is not caring about. Any how, if some christians don care o this topic, he is not obligued to participate.

 

[Duckybill]

There is only one thing worse than being wrong about wich day was the crucifixion; the worse thing is not caring about.

Surely you are not saying that we must know which day Jesus was executed to be saved?

 

[THE Gypsy]

There is only one thing worse than being wrong about wich day was the crucifixion; the worse thing is not caring about.

Actually...That would be dwelling on something so trivial (Meaning it does not make a difference in anything) instead of dealing with issues that plague our society with disbelief. You know...the little things like the parents broken hearts as they seek the answer to "Why did God allow MY 3 year old girl to be raped?" Or..."Why did God allow MY 16 year old daughter to be terrorized, tortured, raped and murdered?" Or "Why is it my Christian son died in the tornado when my Satanic worshipping neighbors son survived?" Or "Why did I get laid off when the guy that works beside me spends more time at the motel with the secretary than he does on the job?"


Those are all issues that make a difference in a persons life...either for or against Christ...And contribute to the great commission.

 

[Goinheix]

Surely you are not saying that we must know which day Jesus was executed to be saved?

Thanks for your question.

Ben Hur was writen by an atheist that had the intention to destroy the christian faith by demostrating that all is nothing but a big myth, the Jesus did never existed for real and that the Gospels are filled with contradictions; internal contradictions and external contradictions (with history and geography). He did study the matter in deep and concluded that Jesus Christ and the Gospels are an authentic acount of real events of real people. Jesus Christ came to be real and true. Converted into chritianity he did write a different book of what he had on mind; he wrote Ben Hur.

Many people have litle instruction concerning Jesus and the times of the Gospels. I have been preaching the Gospel and the salvation in Christ, in a person to poerson strategy. I can tell you that I have preach to many hundred persons in a personal,m face to face talk. And I can agree with you that not even one single time I was asked at what time or what day did Jesus be crucified (I dont like "executed" or "dued"; nobody took his life but he give it). The reason for this is in some extend - not only - in the fact that the most of the people have litle instryction on the matter and in consecuense have not doubts.

When I did recieve the nesage, when I was told that God has a new life for me in Christ; I did not care on times or places; I jumped in immediately withou questioning any more. That very moment in wich I recieved Jesus Christ as my personal Savor and Lord, I got the eternal life. All of that despite the day or the hour in wich Christ were crucified. But few weeks later, when I was encouraged to read the Bible, the NT and the Gospels, I did commence to have questions. Eventually, one of my questions was concerning the confusion on wich day Jesus Christ was crucified. As a result, I did - 30 years later - prepared the harmony of the Gospels. It was not necesary for me to know the time in order to wish the salvation and to get the salvation. But it was a necesity for me for growing up in the solid groud that the Bible, the NT, the Gospels and the acount of the Pasion - in wich we base our theology - is absolutely reliable and contain nor errors or contradictions.

The question is: If instead of preaching to normal people on the street and parks; me or you have to preach to an intelectual person who have studied the Gospels...what answer will we give when asked about the time of the crucifixion. Paul is telling us to be ready to give reason of our faith. If we are trying to get a body to believe that Jesus did died for his sins, and resurrected for his eternal life; we better be prepared to answer all questions that make the cross look like a myth.

If we congregate with brother, we better have a good answer - not a smart excuse to pull away - when a new christian being nures by spiritual milk, ask us about the aparent contradictions on the acount of the Pasion. How come that Jesus were crucified by 9am and was at Pilates by noon? How is that Jesus was crucified the 15th, if the 15th is not a preparation day? How is that the Sun rises when Jesus were take to the Sanedrin, and rises againg when he was take to Piklates? We can be exercised in void answers as "that is not what matter"; or we can be litle more responsible and try - at least try - to found out the true asnwer.

 

[Goinheix]

Actually...That would be dwelling on something so trivial (Meaning it does not make a difference in anything) instead of dealing with issues that plague our society with disbelief. You know...the little things like the parents broken hearts as they seek the answer to "Why did God allow MY 3 year old girl to be raped?" Or..."Why did God allow MY 16 year old daughter to be terrorized, tortured, raped and murdered?" Or "Why is it my Christian son died in the tornado when my Satanic worshipping neighbors son survived?" Or "Why did I get laid off when the guy that works beside me spends more time at the motel with the secretary than he does on the job?"


Those are all issues that make a difference in a persons life...either for or against Christ...And contribute to the great commission.

It is not clear for me why are you participating in this thread at all. How comes that you are wasting your time in what you concider so irrelevat and trivial. But I can give you answer for all of those questions and more. We can found answers for those questions and for any question (except to who won the las FIFA World Cup?) in the Bible. The Bible is the word of God, the revelation of God (at least one of the revelations). The Bible is inspired by God, contain the truth and nothing bu the truth. It is free from errors, mistakes or contradictions; and we can relay our life on what we read on it. In the Bible we have all we need to know concernig this life over here, and most importantly,for our eternal life. We can believe, be comfidents and relay on what is written on the Bible; because it is the word of God.

Offcourse you are propossing hypotetical questions. You are not requesting for me a answer for each of those specific questions. Am I right? You are trying to nmake a point. And the point is that the Bible, the NT, the Gospels and the acount of the Pasion in wich we base our life here, and our eternal life, are reliable word of God without mistakes or contradictions. And that is when the point became to give good answers to those aparent mistakes and contradictions. If the acount of the Pasion is not reliable, the rest of the Bible dosnt worse reading neither. That is the point.

 

[THE Gypsy]

It is not clear for me why are you participating in this thread at all. How comes that you are wasting your time in what you concider so irrelevat and trivial. But I can give you answer for all of those questions and more. We can found answers for those questions and for any question (except to who won the las FIFA World Cup?) in the Bible. The Bible is the word of God, the revelation of God (at least one of the revelations). The Bible is inspired by God, contain the truth and nothing bu the truth. It is free from errors, mistakes or contradictions; and we can relay our life on what we read on it. In the Bible we have all we need to know concernig this life over here, and most importantly,for our eternal life. We can believe, be comfidents and relay on what is written on the Bible; because it is the word of God.

Offcourse you are propossing hypotetical questions. You are not requesting for me a answer for each of those specific questions. Am I right? You are trying to nmake a point. And the point is that the Bible, the NT, the Gospels and the acount of the Pasion in wich we base our life here, and our eternal life, are reliable word of God without mistakes or contradictions. And that is when the point became to give good answers to those aparent mistakes and contradictions. If the acount of the Pasion is not reliable, the rest of the Bible dosnt worse reading neither. That is the point.

No. I did not "propose hypothetical questions". I listed actual events.

And I have to admit, when you're staring into the eyes of a set of parents who are clinging to their dead, mutilated child, the words "God does not make mistakes" rings rather hollow.