Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Taken]

Brother Taken:

2. You say that these people were intended to carry the word of God to the entire world you say. Is there support in scripture for this statement?

Over 250 times, the NT mentions Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and others, as the fathers of the Jews.

Rom 3:2
....because that unto them (Jews) committed, the oracles of God.

Rom 1:16
...for it is the power of God unt salvation to everyone that believeth;
To the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

There is scripture however that supports the idea that no matter what people were chosen of God...

2. You believe because the stock of the Hebrews were the ones with the word of God and they were the ones that ‘gave us’ grace and salvation"

Nope, never said such a thing.
Giving KNOWLEDGE, is not giving grace or salvation.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Brother Taken:

3. I have the impression that you think that Hebrews exist as ‘Jews’ today as a nation, a collective. And as a collective they will be ‘saved’ collectively, at one time. I totally disagree if this is the case…read on..

I did not say that.
I believe Hebrews/Jews were set aside as a People unto God.

They have historically been together, been scattered, been in bondage, and have spread across the World. Some married within their own People, some have married Gentiles.
Jews who "continue" IMO, are "constant" through their Religion.

3. You have used as one as your support scriptures in Romans 11… to confirm that the chosen ones of old are special today – even the ‘Jews.’

Yes. I see what was revealed historically, as truth.

Deut. 7:6
...the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself,
Above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

It speaks of the true vine and the natural branch(es) being ‘cut off,’ not unrooted. And that those that were not Judahites from other nations were grafted into the natural vine/tree. And that one day in the future those cut off with be back on their nature vine. Meanwhile, those not of the natural branches need not boast with pride else they can also be cut-off.

Yes. As Paul taught. First to the Jew, then the Greek (Gentiles).

And Yes. Already spoke of some of the Stock descendants being cut off, and believing Gentiles grafted in.

This scripture is incidentally used by those that support ‘you can lose your salvation.’ They just misapply it…….

Agree, One can not use Scripture to defeat Scripture.

Salvation is provided, but not forced on anyone, A man must call on the Lord to receive it. Some people do not recognize, a man can believe, WITHOUT calling on the Lord. That is not receiving Salvation. And at any time, one who has not received Salvation, can stop believing. And a man who never receives Salvation, and physically dies loses (his opportunity to receive Salvation).

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Brother Taken:

4. I don’t agree with your meaning of the LAW, not being destroyed. [/As you believe it is being kept alive by God for the Jews to ‘work in’ for salvation.

I disagree.

1) Jesus did not destroy the law.
2) Jesus fulfilled the law.
3) Jesus must be known of, before He can be believed in.
4) I do not presume Every Jew, Every Gentile had heard of Jesus, for even years after He left the Earth.
5) I believe believing Hebrews/Jews, had provisions for their forgiveness.
6) I am convinced, Works, was a primary way Hebrews/Jews obtained Salvation.
7) I am convinced, the Lord is all knowing, and knew the Majority of descending Jews would return to being under the Law, and yes, that Belief and obedience to the works, in the Law, is their provision of Salvation.

It is not a one-liner in Scripture, but rather a deeper study. Perhaps this would spark your interest to further study.

Ex 18:20
Thou shalt teach them the ordinances of the laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, AND THE WORK THEY MUST DO.

They were living with the LAW and the new faith in Christ simultaneously. I can appreciate that fact.

Well yes. They were learning something new.

So, you believe that God made an exception for them at that time and even today, to work both sides of the fence, so to speak.

No. It's one Fence, with two sides.
One is either WITH GOD, or AGAINST GOD.

God provides the Way; when and to whom as is His pleasure.

This is not scriptural. Jesus fulfilled the LAW. He completed it within himself for us to know, in our hearts.

Disagree.
I think that is a narrow approach. Yeah for the Gentiles, who had no history with God, and then choose to accept God and His Word.
And the Hebrews/Jews, steeped in 4,000 years of history with God and His Word, oops, sorry they couldn't erase their history and jump on board with a Prophet and his 12 Disciples....that in a very short time-span was being spread about the World by Gentiles...

Yes, I do believe the Lord provides according to His Way, and to understand it IMO, requires a study, deeper than a few opinions on a forum.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Brother Taken,


5. Your major thought that there is a spiritual thread in force today for the continuance of the Hebrews from the time of Abraham through the ‘Jews’ today, is folly.

I disagree.

Yes, the Hebrew teachings of what glorifies God is still enforce,

I stressed their "TEACHING", and you pretty much seemed to "undo" that point, and make it into something you called folly, then you mention teaching, and you agree with yourself.

although I don’t rely on them as I use my heart today to glorify God.

Well, um, isn't that the basis for Christianiaty?
And you do realize the Hebrews were not Christians, the Jews in the Majority before and after Jesus were not, are not Christians, which was who was being discussed?

5. I do not believe that God gave the ‘Jews’ the Lords teachings. Yes, to the Hebrew and Israelites.

As of yet, I see very little in our differences.

I guess I already let the cat out of the bag as you might become displeased with my explanation later down in the on this subject. You might really be upset with me if you are a Messianic Jew, and it will not be because I wish to do this to you. I just want to tell the truth as I know it.

Okay.
Go Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

I disagree.

1) Jesus did not destroy the law.
2) Jesus fulfilled the law.
3) Jesus must be known of, before He can be believed in.
4) I do not presume Every Jew, Every Gentile had heard of Jesus, for even years after He left the Earth.
5) I believe believing Hebrews/Jews, had provisions for their forgiveness.
6) I am convinced, Works, was a primary way Hebrews/Jews obtained Salvation.
7) I am convinced, the Lord is all knowing, and knew the Majority of descending Jews would return to being under the Law, and yes, that Belief and obedience to the works, in the Law, is their provision of Salvation.

It is not a one-liner in Scripture, but rather a deeper study. Perhaps this would spark your interest to further study.

Ex 18:20
Thou shalt teach them the ordinances of the laws, and shalt show them the way wherein they must walk, AND THE WORK THEY MUST DO.



Well yes. They were learing something new.



No. It's one Fence, with two sides.
One is either WITH GOD, or AGAINST GOD.

God provides the Way; when and to whom as is His pleasure.



Disagree.
I think that is a narrow approach. Yeah for the Gentiles, who had no history with God, and then choose to accept God and His Word.
And the Hebrews/Jews, steeped in 4,000 years of history with God and His Word, oops, sorry they couldn't erase their history and jump on board with a Prophet and his 12 Disciples....that in a very short time-span was being spread about the World by Gentiles...

Yes, I do believe the Lord provides according to His Way, and to understand it IMO, requires a study, deeper than a few opinions on a forum.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken:

Your points 1 and 2 ..you have misread what I say even the quote you have pulled out. The sentence structure may not be the best although if you review it again, you can see I never said that the LAW was destroyed. I said your view of the LAW NOT being destroyed was different from mine. Go back and read it again. In other words I've always said what you have said for your points 1 and 2. May be if said 4. "I don’t agree with your meaning of the LAW 'as to not' being destroyed, it would have cleared it up for you. I just wanted to make that clear. And further, I have always said Jesus fulfilled the LAW.

I'm still reviewing your stuff....it is a very new thought for me, and then to find scripture to support it.

APAK

 

[bbyrd009]

I say blessing and gifts and rewards, because the Scripture says so.

ah well It says both, but i doubt you will want to pursue this, so i won't bother unless you do

 

[Taken]

Taken Part 2..

Here are some of my concerns..


I would not use the term Jew today for those that represent the Hebrews and Israelites, and of being same blood stock. They are not and never have been. Nearly all surviving Judahites or Judeans that were of the blood stock of the Israelites were either Christian converts or were living outside Judea or were dead by 70 AD. God deliberately planned it that way to mark the spiritual and physical separation of the significance of Jerusalem, the temple worship and worship under the LAW. It was over for good.​

I never mentioned "blood stock".
Stock, is a reference to a mans seed.
Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, to the Twelve Tribes; had their connection through Abrahams stock seed, or beliefs, or both.

I am certainly aware, men individually choose, to marry, move to other lands, separate, mix races, mix people and mix religions.

It really doesn't matter what a Gentile believes should apply to a Jew. Their history is long, connected, as Jesus Himself referenced, "their fathers", (speaking of the Hebrews), so your objection, as a Gentile, is moot to me.

Those very, very few of the true Israelite stock most probably assimilated into other cultures and nations. Those that survived and stayed most probably stay in the LAW and supported the persecution of Christians and began developing the Jerusalem Talmud, and they did. Their brethren from Babylonia already were well underway with their version of the Talmud.

I have already acknowledge, people scatter.
You seem more directing to DNA, and BLOOD.
Human Blood, is Human Blood. God requires the Blood of everyone born.

Today, virtually all those calling themselves Judeans, of Jude, or Judea, or using the modern English 17th century term ‘Jew’ are ancestors of Judaic converts that were of an Asiatic-Turkish stock. They previously practiced Phallic symbols. They were the Khazarians of the Black sea. They converted to the religion of Judaism (codified as a religion around 500 AD). Their spiritual legacy is completely Pharisee-based. Their Pharisaic rabbis carried the torch from the 1st century into the 21st century of a twisted religion composed of bits of the Bible, the Babylonian Talmud (very ant-Christian) and the readings or sayings of their teachers.

Again, DNA and Blood seem to be your driving factor, which is irrelevant to me.

The title and the people called Jewish or a Jew hijacked the titles and the peoples called Judahites, Israelites and Hebrews. People, especially gullible Christians call Jews the chosen people which is completely false.

I don't find it gullible. Nor do I find it is in reference to BLOOD, but rather the Hebrews were chosen to hear, read, learn, teach, the Word of God.
And that continued to those who are commonly called Jews, who continue as much as possible in the ways of their forefathers, who were Hebrews, to hear, read, learn, teach, the
Word of God.


[QUOTEIronically, I’ve been invited to do an informal slide show tomorrow on Jewish genealogy for some older Jews in their Temple. Do you think I will tell them that the furthest ancestor they will ever find is one that lived on the coast of the Black sea around 800 AD? I think some know this fact already.[/QUOTE]

Do you think Scripture got their genealogy in error, and they are in error to follow a religion of men that were not their forefathers?

These are reformed Jews-are the most liberal around. Some don’t even believe that the Torah was inspired? There are about 6 branches of Judaism or Jews developed in degrees of conservatism. Orthodoxy being the strictest…. And there are not that many..they are declining in membership.

Six branches ~ seems they are fairing better than Christianity, and their umpteen denominations. And Many Gentiles don't believe the Bible was inspired.

Just saying~ I don't believe the ERA matters; men have a choice to Believe in:
In God and the Word of God, or not, regardless if they know his name.

So, what can I say about the political state of Israel…I guess you can read between the lines of what I’ve already said.

Men dictated, what would be the land called Israel. It's temporary. God has already Promised Abraham LAND, which some of his Stock descendants and men who become his descendants by Promise, shall inherit.

So I really have a hard time believing Taken, that the Jews are the torch-bearers for the word of God or for any special event in the future….I still will listen and learn what I can though…keeping an open-mind..prove me wrong..really...

Just saying ~ without the Jews diligence, what written Word of God, would you have today?

BTW - hope you had a lovely supper on your Valentines Day outing.

God Bless,
Taken​

 

[Taken]

Taken:

Your points 1 and 2 ..you have misread what I say even the quote you have pulled out. The sentence structure may not be the best although if you review it again, you can see I never said that the LAW was destroyed. I said your view of the LAW NOT being destroyed was different from mine.

I got that. My points were simply reinerating.

Go back and read it again. In other words I've always said what you have said for your points 1 and 2. May be if said 4. "I don’t agree with your meaning of the LAW 'as to not' being destroyed, it would have cleared it up for you. I just wanted to make that clear.

It was clear.

And further, I have always said Jesus fulfilled the LAW.

I believe Jesus IS the Jewish Messiah.
I believe Christ Jesus fulfilled the Law.

From my perspective of study;
The Majority of Jews do not believe Jesus is their Messiah.

Thus they do not believe He fulfilled their Law.

Thus many Jews believe they are still waiting for their Messiah.

When one begins in early ancient history, concerning Salvation - and they were being introduced to Salvation - it was pertaining to them being BODILY saved from harm, believing the Lord was WITH THEM.

Remember, many of the faithful, lived hundreds of years, they were saved from death in battles even with questionable odds.

Just saying - knowing how God introduced His teaching to men by association of what was familiar with; I lean toward, Jews having difficulty accepting Jesus as their Messiah....

Jesus...a man, a man without pomp, circumstances, royalty, position, estate, wealth. Etc.....and did nothing to fight off enemies of the Jews, or make their lives comfortable in wealth and without fear of others. I believe the Jews have a expectation of their Messiah, coming in Grandure.

(Which when Jesus returns, shall return with Grandure)
On Jesus' first revealing, as the Son of God, He came in the likeness as any common Jew of the day; WITHOUT His "reputation".
His "reputation" was revealed while He was on earth, and He shall return...

As the Son of man (ie able to be seen), with His full "reputation", ie POWER.

Jesus, the Word of God.
Christ, the Power of God.
Gathering up the Remant who will hear;
(Ie 144,000 ministering, Angel speaking the Word of God about the World)
And believe, become Saved, be killed, and their soul received into heaven.
(About the time of the 6 & 7 seal opening, during the Tribulation).

I'm still reviewing your stuff....it is a very new thought for me, and then to find scripture to support it.

Okay.

Also, not sure how you are conducting your genealogy presentation. Perhaps if any are practicing Jews, you could ask them...

1) Why, inanutshell Jews reject Jesus as their Christ Messiah.
2) If (aside from belief) if "works" are an important component for them to receive Salvation.
3) How do they receive a yearly forgiveness, without a Temple to offer Animal Blood Sacrifices.

I have done years of research on genealogy, and enjoyed it as a hobby, and met many new acquaintances. (Eh, granted some were dead.. ...but have some wonderful written collections pertaining to them).

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

lol, i guess i just don't know who you are, huh

Probably not.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I noticed people who oppose,
ONCE Saved Always Saved;

Never reveal how many times they have been Saved, or why their Saving failed.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

#1 Yes
#2 Saved ..

I have heard of people not bothering with reading the fine print, which lays out the terms of a contract. Then wondering why their understanding is in contract with those who bothered to read and comprehend.

Seems some people do not bother with knowing about Jesus or know there is no contract to sign, or mental contract, that it is all from the heart and permanent.

Let your yes be yes and your no be no.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

@Taken I notice in a couple of threads we are "he"ing and "she" ing you.

Even a few saying "brother".
I know we are living in the times of " none gender"....and it's growing fast.
I have been convinced that you are a She, while others seem just as convinced that you are a He.

I too when joining the site did not state gender...and got called 'brother' a few times, and was the reason why I changed my avatar and put my own photo up!

So, which is it? Do I win ? LOL

 

[Taken]

@Taken I notice in a couple of threads we are "he"ing and "she" ing you.

Even a few saying "brother".
I know we are living in the times of " none gender"....and it's growing fast.
I have been convinced that you are a She, while others seem just as convinced that you are a He.

I too when joining the site did not state gender...and got called 'brother' a few times....the reason why I changed me avatar and put my own photo us!

So, which is it? Do I win ? LOL

I prefer not to reveal, but I do wear cowboy boots and ride horses, if that helps. LOL

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

I prefer not to reveal, but I do wear cowboy boots and ride horses, if that helps. LOL

God Bless,
Taken

No, does not help one bit. lol

Well I am convinced that I am right, and you are indeed female..

Can you tell us why you wish to be genderless?
Do you agree with the big push going on to make things gender free?
Even the push to have God referred to as He in the bible...
And birth certificates left gender free , so the child can choose it's own!!

Gen 5 2 "Male and female created He them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."

*But I am very aware that- "in Christ neither male nor female, bond or free.."
And that we are all 'son's of God' ....

 

[Taken]

No, does not help one bit. lol

LOL

Well I am convinced that I am right, and you are indeed female..

Can you tell us why you wish to be genderless?

Do you agree with the big push going on to make things gender free?
Even the push to have God referred to as He in the bible...
And birth certificates left gender free , so the child can choose it's own!!

No!!!

Gen 5 2 "Male and female created He them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created."

*But I am very aware that- "in Christ neither male nor female, bond or free.."
And that we are all 'son's of God' ....

No, it has to do with privacy, and too many people taking advantage of every tid bit of information for corrupt intents.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

No, it has to do with privacy, and too many people taking advantage of every tid bit of information for corrupt intents.

God Bless,
Taken

Oh come on now... Do you really believe that anyone who wishes to, cannot find out anything at all about any of us?
Those days are well passed. We are all open-books...they "have our number"... and I believe we have all been numbered by them already.
According to them, the only people on this planet are themselves, the elite..
the rest of us are all numbers not names.

And yes, I am indeed a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Taken]

Oh come on now... Do you really believe that anyone who wishes to, cannot find out anything at all about any of us?

Just saying, I do not have any desire to help anyone out who may want to dig into my business.

Those days are well passed. We are all open-books...they "have our number"... and I believe we have all been numbered by them already.
According to them, the only people on this planet are themselves, the elite..
the rest of us are all numbers not names.

That I would agree applies to governments particularly. However they are not the only ones looking for people's information.

I have done internet searches on some people, and the scads of information is unbelieveable. And the no holds bar of people yapping on social media, yipes!
I have also searched my own self and see it is virtually non-existent, but then I don't participate in government programs, do the social media, go to Doctors, never been detained, arrested, or had a ticket, buy online, give out info, because some clerk asks. Just saying ~

And yes, I am indeed a conspiracy theorist.

I like a good mystery, and theories, typically have some truth IMO.


Go Bless,
Taken

 

[GodsGrace]

Absolutely Judas fulfilled God's will.
Notice : Matthew 12:39-40
[39] But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: [40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jonah 1:17
[17] Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

The Lord "prepared." Judas was "prepared" to fulfill God's plan of redemption.

John 2:19
[19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.


Matthew 26:18
[18] And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

It was all "prepared". I get and understand why you would have love for Judas. He did the will of God. The money Judas sold Jesus for, purchased a field. In my opinion, we should be grateful. We should love. My only concern is that: if God(or Jesus) knew about it then why choose Judas...He told us why. You seem offended by it so you take the control out of God's hand. Did God do something offensive that needs to be forgiven? No. Was God in control. Yes. Was Judas saved and then lost...absolutely not. What that means for Judas; I don't know. But I know God is good and just.

Titus 1:15-16
[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. [16] They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him , being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Very interesting.
I like how you put everything together.
Never thought of this.
I do believe Judas had good intentions.
He was so distraught at what happened to Jesus that he
Killed himself.
Mathew 10 when Jesus sends out the 12 is the clincher for me.

 

[GodsGrace]

As you say...interesting.

I doubt we’ll ever have all the answers ...because God hasn’t told us clearly.

So Judas did do all that he was prophesied to do.
Did he have a choice?
Someone had to do the job!
Could he have changed his mind at the end?

Did God have a Plan B ?
I can’t see in scripture that God ever used a plan B.

This reminds me of Mary's calling and mission.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes it is better to be with God than just to disappear, but if we cannot hear his voice, do we not have a problem? Some people I believe hear His voice without being always able to definitely identify it. Even as our vision needs to continue to improve as we walk with God so also must our hearing. This means not only hearing Him but also recognizing what we hear as being Him.

Yes. It's important to recognize God's voice.
His sheep hear His voice.