Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

[Triumph1300]

Does he lose his Salvation?

That would totally depend on the pope.

 

[Taken]

So, it's the bowing that concerns you??

Were you "concerned" when Jacob bowed his head down to the ground to his brother Esau (Gen. 33:3)??
How about when Solomon bowed to the ground when his mother entered the room when he made a throne for her (1 Kings 2:19)??
How about when a young man who is in love gets down on his knees to propose marriage to his girlfriend?
Did these instances concern you?

A man bowing to his brother?
A man bowing to his mother?
A man on blended knee to his girlfriend?

Nope, why should it?

Catholics aren't allowed to show love and respect for the Pope like Jacob and Solomon and that young man??

As for "Holy Father" - my dad was a Holy Father. Is it sinful or idolatrous of me to say that??
Or am I just recognizing his godliness??

Finally - the Pope doesn't "demand" that anybody bow before him. This is a practice of love, respect and endearment - NOT an order. I suggest you research your posts a little better . . .

Come on man ~
Bowing, kissing his ring, INFALLIBLE, Holy Father.....Own it, and deal with it, not everyone agrees.

 

[Triumph1300]

kissing his ring

What kind of ring? Is it an earring?

 

[brakelite]

1. I think it's great that Catholics can now actually read a Bible without the risk of being arrested. It would be greater if when reading it, and they discover a text which contradicts their doctrine, they would take the plain understanding of the language of scripture above the convoluted interpretations of the magisterium.
2. I think its great that Catholics and non-Catholics can enjoy debating spiritual matters without either one fearing a barbecue in their honour.
3. I think it's great that non-Catholics are now officially termed 'separated brethren', as opposed to heretics...schismatics...rebels...dogs....etc etc. It would even be greater if Catholics obeyed the call of their Saviour to come out of her, and become 'un-separated' brethren.
4. I agree with BOL that OSAS is a false concept. I believe it's a false concept on the basis of the expression 'falling away' in 2 Thessalonians, referring to a general apostasy that resulted in divorce from the Saviour and loss of salvation for all who as individuals, took part. It would be great if BOL recognised that this general apostasy that Paul spoke of has already taken place when the apostolic church fell from her exalted status and sought political power and prestige as civil rulers in Rome after the departure of Constantine for Turkey.
5. I think it's great that Protestants also recognise that within the Catholic communion there are many genuine Christians, and that within the Protestant communion, there are many that aren't. What Catholics are Christians, are so despite the errors...what Protestants are not, are so often because of the errors.
6. If one was to dig deep enough, one would discover that there are errors in both camps. Sadly, because of the false precept of 'infallibility', Catholics refuse to recognise their errors on pain of excommunication. Protestants refuse to accept their errors because they cannot see that they haven't yet fully departed from Rome. And no matter how deep you dig, you won't find any truth in Rome. That is why the only secure way to be assured of life is to leave.
7. The current ecumenical drive that is beguiling protestants and mystifying Catholics, is akin to Christians walking voluntarily back into the Colloseum. Overseeing the proceedings however is not a pagan emperor, and their won't be any blood...but death will be the inevitable result.

 

[Taken]

What kind of ring? Is it an earring?

1. I think it's great that Catholics can now actually read a Bible without the risk of being arrested.

It would be greater if when reading it, and they discover a text which contradicts their doctrine, they would take the plain understanding of the language of scripture above the convoluted interpretations of the magisterium.

4. I agree with BOL that OSAS is a false concept....

I think it would be great if all individuals heard and read the Scriptures and discovered
Salvation is about the Lord Saving an Individual's SOUL, who have Heartfully Submitted to Him, and that Once submitted, He Saves their Soul Forever.
And stop preaching the Lords Power is moot, and He be a Liar.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

What kind of ring? Is it an earring?

It's a finger ring, a sign of spiritual authority, and the kissing thereof is the individual submitting to him, as he be their infallible spiritual authority.

The Pope himself kisses people and all kinds of "things"; statues, jewelry, ampoule's, books, cloths, etc....and of course his underlings follow suit.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Triumph1300]

The Pope himself kisses people and all kinds of "things"; statues, jewelry, ampoule's, books, cloths, etc....and of course his underlings follow suit.

Weird.

 

[Taken]

Weird.

Agree.

Scripture teaches:

1) to give a kiss regarding charity
....I see as the receiver of charity giving a kiss to the one who provides the charity.

2) to greet another with a holy kiss
....I see as one submitted to Christ, giving another submitted to Chirst, a "holy" kiss when greeting them.

Kissing statues, jewelry, cloth, other items AS some kind of "holy" gesture, per TRADITIONS men have devised?

No.

Mark 7:13
Making the WORD OF GOD of NONE EFFECT through your tradition, which ye have delivered and MANY SUCH LIKE THINGS YE DO.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is true (16.67%)
  
  
• Those that believe "once saved always saved" is a false docterine. (50%)
  
  
• Not sure. (33.33%)

I believe many men hear and mull over in their MINDS thoughts, what they hear, maybe believing, maybe not. Maybe believe for awhile, maybe falling away from believing.

I believe a few men who have heard, have concluded in their HEARTS thoughts, they truly believe. It is these men who become SAVED, and NEVER FALL away....they CAN NOT FALL AWAY, PRECISELY BY THE POWER of God.

Your POLL, shows a very SAD revealing of men who do not comprehend the difference between what a MIND believes and what a HEART believes.

It further reveals a great deal of men DO NOT TRUST the Power of God, to Saved a mans soul ONCE, and KEEP it SAVED FOREVER, by His POWER.

The MIND of man is AGAINST God.
The HEART of man is the thoughts God searches.

The Lord IS NOT a Liar.
The Lord's POWER is NOT subject to a mans ever changing MIND.
A man is not saved by proclaimations of his ever changing MIND.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

A man bowing to his brother?
A man bowing to his mother?
A man on blended knee to his girlfriend?

Nope, why should it?

Come on man ~
Bowing, kissing his ring, INFALLIBLE, Holy Father.....Own it, and deal with it, not everyone agrees.

Soooo - you're just being hypocritical.
A man can bow and kneel before his mother, girlfriend or brother - but not his church leader??

NO need to expose you here since you've done such a great job of it yourself . . .

 

[Taken]

Soooo - you're just being hypocritical.
A man can bow and kneel before his mother, girlfriend or brother - but not his church leader??

NO need to expose you here since you've done such a great job of it yourself . . .

Ignoring the context to push your accusation is plainly observed.

If you choose to call your HOLY FATHER;
The Pope
And you choose to bow down and kiss His Ring

That is your business. Many people do not, would not, and disagree with such practice.

Deal with it.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

1. I think it's great that Catholics can now actually read a Bible without the risk of being arrested. It would be greater if when reading it, and they discover a text which contradicts their doctrine, they would take the plain understanding of the language of scripture above the convoluted interpretations of the magisterium.
2. I think its great that Catholics and non-Catholics can enjoy debating spiritual matters without either one fearing a barbecue in their honour.
3. I think it's great that non-Catholics are now officially termed 'separated brethren', as opposed to heretics...schismatics...rebels...dogs....etc etc. It would even be greater if Catholics obeyed the call of their Saviour to come out of her, and become 'un-separated' brethren.
4. I agree with BOL that OSAS is a false concept. I believe it's a false concept on the basis of the expression 'falling away' in 2 Thessalonians, referring to a general apostasy that resulted in divorce from the Saviour and loss of salvation for all who as individuals, took part. It would be great if BOL recognised that this general apostasy that Paul spoke of has already taken place when the apostolic church fell from her exalted status and sought political power and prestige as civil rulers in Rome after the departure of Constantine for Turkey.
5. I think it's great that Protestants also recognise that within the Catholic communion there are many genuine Christians, and that within the Protestant communion, there are many that aren't. What Catholics are Christians, are so despite the errors...what Protestants are not, are so often because of the errors.
6. If one was to dig deep enough, one would discover that there are errors in both camps. Sadly, because of the false precept of 'infallibility', Catholics refuse to recognise their errors on pain of excommunication. Protestants refuse to accept their errors because they cannot see that they haven't yet fully departed from Rome. And no matter how deep you dig, you won't find any truth in Rome. That is why the only secure way to be assured of life is to leave.
7. The current ecumenical drive that is beguiling protestants and mystifying Catholics, is akin to Christians walking voluntarily back into the Colloseum. Overseeing the proceedings however is not a pagan emperor, and their won't be any blood...but death will be the inevitable result.

And I think it's pathetic that SOME Protestants still drink the anti-Catholic Kool-Aid they were raised on.
Your first 3 points in RED are almost comical, if not so pathetically-ignorant.

Arrested for reading the Bible, indeed . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Ignoring the context to push your accusation is plainly observed.

If you choose to call your HOLY FATHER;
The Pope
And you choose to bow down and kiss His Ring

That is your business. Many people do not, would not, and disagree with such practice.

Deal with it.

God Bless,
Taken

Context? What context??
Every one of the examples I gave showed love, respect and honor.

Do you reject that we should honor those who are over us in Christ?

 

[BreadOfLife]

good, cuz i like calling you "Breadman".

Tell me, if you met the pope, would you get down on your knees and kiss his ring?

Sounds like you've run out of steam on this topic . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Drum rollllll ~

And? If a man does not choose the Lord....
?????????
Does he lose his Salvation?

God Bless,
Taken

You can only "lose" what you have.
If a man is saved and chooses to walk away from God and dies - then he has lost his salvation.

Not that difficult to understand . . .

 

[Taken]

Context? What context??
Every one of the examples I gave showed love, respect and honor.

Do you reject that we should honor those who are over us in Christ?

Try to stay on point.

Many Christians believe GOD is their HOLY FATHER, period!

Catholics promote, perpetuate, claim a man, called a Pope is their HOLY FATHER.

Scripture does not promote, perpetuate, or claim any earthly man is their HOLY FATHER.

Deal with it.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

And I think it's pathetic that SOME Protestants still drink the anti-Catholic Kool-Aid they were raised on.

Likewise for anti-Protestants.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Likewise for anti-Protestants.

God Bless,
Taken

I'm not "anti-Protestant".
NINE of my TWELVE siblings are Protestants and I love them dearly.

MOST of them aren't anti-Catholic, either.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Try to stay on point.

Many Christians believe GOD is their HOLY FATHER, period!

Catholics promote, perpetuate, claim a man, called a Pope is their HOLY FATHER.

Scripture does not promote, perpetuate, or claim any earthly man is their HOLY FATHER.

Deal with it.

God Bless,
Taken

As I stated earlier - my Dad was a very holy man. That would make HIM a holy Father.

You don't have to be God to be holy.
We are ALL called to be holy - over and over in Scripture.

NOT sure why you can't understand this point . . .

 

[brakelite]

And I think it's pathetic that SOME Protestants still drink the anti-Catholic Kool-Aid they were raised on.
Your first 3 points in RED are almost comical, if not so pathetically-ignorant.

Arrested for reading the Bible, indeed . . .

Jumping up and down in mock indignation is not a very effective way of putting across your argument. All I see is a childish tantrum. You are right about one thing though. I was raised on kool-aid. The first 24 years of my life Roman Catholic.
My points are not pathetically ignorant. They are a true reflection of a history that is hidden from Catholics. When they are told of it from outside their faith communion, they go on auto pilot exhibiting all manner of shock and disbelief. Then fear. Fear, because if true, they would have to reconsider their position. That is untenable, because for a Catholic, whose sense of salvation is intimately linked to their faith in the infallible holy father and their infallible holy mother, the church, any thought or consideration outside of that paradigm means inevitable loss of salvation. While you say that Protestants are saved because they have been baptised etc, you do not really mean that, because your own dogmatic doctrines, infallibly spoken of by a succession of popes over centuries, clearly declare that only in the RCC is there to be found salvation.